July 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Problem with FileSystem primitives in latest Pharo2.0

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 04 Jul 2012, at 10:53, Fernando Olivero wrote: > Sven, are you using Mac OSX ? SystemVersion current Pharo2.0a of '18 April 2012' update 20179 Smalltalk vm version 'CoInterpreter VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 uuid: bec8cdf0-4e06-4975-8c02-e882fadf4df3 Jun 22 2012, StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 uuid: bec8cdf0-4e06-4975-8c02-e882fadf4df3 Jun 22 2012, https://git.gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: 744bfe905c78a1a5d408680a8780367ea77e0549 Date: Fri Jun 1 15:17:41 2012 +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>' It is really strange that it does not work for youâ¦

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Problem with FileSystem primitives in latest Pharo2.0

by Esteban Lorenzano

It *was* a known bug... I'm also not being able to reproduce it :) On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:53 AM, Fernando Olivero wrote: > Yes, i'm using the latest. > > VM: https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Cog-VM/Architecture=32,OS=mac/58/ > > Sven, are you using Mac OSX ? > > Esteban replied that's a known bug, (unexisting file giving tue on > #exists) maybe its implied that'solely for the Mac ? > > I will do an unit test to capture this issue. > > Fernando > > > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: >> >> On 04 Jul 2012, at 09:51, Fernando Olivero wrote: >> >>> But i found that the following is working incorrectly: >>> >>> (FileSystem disk workingDirectory / 'unexistingFileForTesting.txt') >>> asFileReference exists = true >> >> Hmm, that would be a serious problem, I am using that as well, >> >> (FileSystem disk workingDirectory / 'unexistingFileForTesting.txt') exists >> >> gives false for me ;-) >> >> And this works as well: >> >> 2 timesRepeat:[ (FileSystem disk workingDirectory / >> 'unexistingFileForTesting.txt') delete ]. >> >> Is there a unit test covering your problem ? >> If not, there should be. >> >> Sven >

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by phil＠highoctane.be

Do you have any excel-sheet style projection of the costs structure? I have asked my contacts for some support. 2012/7/4 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> > > On 04 Jul 2012, at 09:56, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > > > Sven wrote: > >> More than a year ago I did this: > >> ... Amazon S3 ... > > > > So does that mean we can have an cloud (S3) based > > internet package cache for all mczs floating around > > that can be used as fallback and searched if the > > usual repos do not work? > > > > Thx > > T. > > Yes. > > Apart from a small initial development cost (with an open source result, > of course), the cost would be running an EC2 instance doing the syncing. > Some of these repositories are huge (GBs) so there would also be some > bandwidth and storge costs - but nothing unreasonable I think. After the > initial setup the syncing should be incremental. > > Some code has to be added to MC to actually use the mirror, but I think > that already exists. > > Sven > -- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil(a)highoctane.be| Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges Belgium

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Problem with FileSystem primitives in latest Pharo2.0

by Fernando Olivero

Yes, i'm using the latest. VM: https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Cog-VM/Architecture=32,OS=mac/58/ Sven, are you using Mac OSX ? Esteban replied that's a known bug, (unexisting file giving tue on #exists) maybe its implied that'solely for the Mac ? I will do an unit test to capture this issue. Fernando On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: > > On 04 Jul 2012, at 09:51, Fernando Olivero wrote: > >> But i found that the following is working incorrectly: >> >> (FileSystem disk workingDirectory / 'unexistingFileForTesting.txt') >> asFileReference exists = true > > Hmm, that would be a serious problem, I am using that as well, > > (FileSystem disk workingDirectory / 'unexistingFileForTesting.txt') exists > > gives false for me ;-) > > And this works as well: > > 2 timesRepeat:[ (FileSystem disk workingDirectory / > 'unexistingFileForTesting.txt') delete ]. > > Is there a unit test covering your problem ? > If not, there should be. > > Sven

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 04 Jul 2012, at 09:56, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > Sven wrote: >> More than a year ago I did this: >> ... Amazon S3 ... > > So does that mean we can have an cloud (S3) based > internet package cache for all mczs floating around > that can be used as fallback and searched if the > usual repos do not work? > > Thx > T. Yes. Apart from a small initial development cost (with an open source result, of course), the cost would be running an EC2 instance doing the syncing. Some of these repositories are huge (GBs) so there would also be some bandwidth and storge costs - but nothing unreasonable I think. After the initial setup the syncing should be incremental. Some code has to be added to MC to actually use the mirror, but I think that already exists. Sven

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by phil＠highoctane.be

Yet more impetus to push the marketing sliders a couple of notches up. I'll ask around if I can get some support from my corporate clients to host this as they do have a ton of data centers. Phil 2012/7/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > On Jul 4, 2012, at 9:49 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > Github and Sourceforge are businesses and that's why they stay around. > > > > Without that, well, why not get some resources/space paid by the > upcoming "loi 1901 association" in a couple of dedicated servers and set > them up with your system? > > About S3 we want to control the cost. > Now phil the problem is that so far we should check if we can pay somebody > after that all the rest is a bonus. > So this means that so far, somebody will do it on his free time. Marcus > administrates the ESUG part during years > and he can continue and we could add one SmalltalkHub Server > > Our biggest concerns so far is that INRIA got staff reduction and the > servers went really unstable. > So may be we will roll our own. > > Stef > > > > > Sven, I am willing to work with you on this, financially included. If > Pharo is going to be thriving, an ecosystem has to blossom anyway. I am > about to be on holidays in 2 weeks, and you are welcome to come over for a > beer and some setup fun! > > > > Phil > > > > 2012/7/4 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> > > > > On 04 Jul 2012, at 09:28, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > > > There must be a business behind all this to take care of the funding > and the daily operations. > > > > More than a year ago I did this: > > > > MCHttpRepository > > location: ' > http://mc-mirror.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ZincHTTPComponents/' > > user: '' > > password: '' > > > > It is a proof of concept, a (now no longer up to date) copy of a > repository DIRECTLY hosted by Amazon S3 (works only for public, read-only > repositories). It would not be a lot of work to set up a copy process that > keeps the mirror up to date for the top 100 projects or so. I would cost > some monthly resources though. > > > > I also did this: > > > > http://mc.stfx.eu > > > > which is a full MC repo (storage only) that is also backed by S3. > > > > Sven > > > > -- > > Sven Van Caekenberghe > > http://stfx.eu > > Smalltalk is the Red Pill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Philippe Back > > Dramatic Performance Improvements > > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: > phil(a)highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: > http://philippeback.be > > > > High Octane SPRL > > rue cour Boisacq 101 > > 1301 Bierges > > Belgium > > >

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Problem with FileSystem primitives in latest Pharo2.0

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 04 Jul 2012, at 09:51, Fernando Olivero wrote: > But i found that the following is working incorrectly: > > (FileSystem disk workingDirectory / 'unexistingFileForTesting.txt') > asFileReference exists = true Hmm, that would be a serious problem, I am using that as well, (FileSystem disk workingDirectory / 'unexistingFileForTesting.txt') exists gives false for me ;-) And this works as well: 2 timesRepeat:[ (FileSystem disk workingDirectory / 'unexistingFileForTesting.txt') delete ]. Is there a unit test covering your problem ? If not, there should be. Sven

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] ohloh is sad

by phil＠highoctane.be

Oloh is interesting to keep a list of tools I do use so that I can point other people to them. Also, it helps an open source project in terms of visibility. As a matter of fact, look here for a hint from another community: http://www.ohloh.net/p/tikiwiki http://tiki.org/networks Yeah, it is a bit of work... 2012/7/4 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> > > Am 03.07.2012 um 21:29 schrieb Camillo Bruni: > > > we have only 8 users on ohloh :P > > > > https://www.ohloh.net/p/pharo/users > > > > now I want to see everybody from the mailinglist on there :P > > > Yet another community? why? To me it appears the main asset is that it > checks contributions which it can't do in our environment. What is it good > for? > > thanks, > > Norbert > -- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil(a)highoctane.be| Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges Belgium

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jul 4, 2012, at 9:49 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Github and Sourceforge are businesses and that's why they stay around. > > Without that, well, why not get some resources/space paid by the upcoming "loi 1901 association" in a couple of dedicated servers and set them up with your system? About S3 we want to control the cost. Now phil the problem is that so far we should check if we can pay somebody after that all the rest is a bonus. So this means that so far, somebody will do it on his free time. Marcus administrates the ESUG part during years and he can continue and we could add one SmalltalkHub Server Our biggest concerns so far is that INRIA got staff reduction and the servers went really unstable. So may be we will roll our own. Stef > > Sven, I am willing to work with you on this, financially included. If Pharo is going to be thriving, an ecosystem has to blossom anyway. I am about to be on holidays in 2 weeks, and you are welcome to come over for a beer and some setup fun! > > Phil > > 2012/7/4 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> > > On 04 Jul 2012, at 09:28, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > There must be a business behind all this to take care of the funding and the daily operations. > > More than a year ago I did this: > > MCHttpRepository > location: 'http://mc-mirror.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ZincHTTPComponents/' > user: '' > password: '' > > It is a proof of concept, a (now no longer up to date) copy of a repository DIRECTLY hosted by Amazon S3 (works only for public, read-only repositories). It would not be a lot of work to set up a copy process that keeps the mirror up to date for the top 100 projects or so. I would cost some monthly resources though. > > I also did this: > > http://mc.stfx.eu > > which is a full MC repo (storage only) that is also backed by S3. > > Sven > > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > http://stfx.eu > Smalltalk is the Red Pill > > > > > > > > > -- > Philippe Back > Dramatic Performance Improvements > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil(a)highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 > 1301 Bierges > Belgium

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jul 4, 2012, at 9:28 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > There must be a business behind all this to take care of the funding and the daily operations. > > Is the consortium going to be taking care of these aspects? It is already as a fireman. Esteban is payed by INRIA for helping to set up the consortium and he is losing time with such issues. Indeed we should think about how to replicate information. About smalltalkHub one deal was that INRIA will host it and replicate on three hosts. Now since smalltalkHub was delayed for more than 8 months the people changed agenda. We will check that again with nicolas and christophe because right now it is hosted at object fusion. Now we were thinking that ESUG could help there because ESUG has also several servers to run and marcus does not have the time to deal with multiple and different servers. So one central one to manage ESUG and SmalltalkHub would make sense but nothing was acted so far. Stef > > Phil > > 2012/7/4 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> > > Norbert wrote: > >Ok, nothing to do here. Thank you, Captain Hindsight! > > While I enjoy your humor and politeness on one side I really > doubt that there is nothing to do here. > > How often do we face the outage of SqS. And now a private > server is yet again gone without an easy restore/access to > the backup. It's nice that we can all check our caches to > find the mcz's - but is this the backup strategy to go for > the future? > > I provided the ConfigurationBrowser in Pharo to easily load > Metacello packages directly from within the image and spend > a lot of time checking appropriate configs for the various > Pharo versions. On one side we invest in making it easier > for people to load packages on the other side it often > did not work due to this brickle hosting we currently have. > > Don't we need a serious discussion and actions on how > to get a reliable infrastructure with official mirrors? > > By providing a prebuilt SqueakSource in the past [1] I hoped > the SqS situation will get better when people may setup own > servers and we have more and more mirrors on the net. It did > not happen. We now know that SqS is the "old way". > > We currently face decisions what servers to use (SS3, SmalltalkHub, ...) > see issue #6093 [2] > > Now we move to SS3 and SmalltalkHub. Can we answer the question > how reliable they are? > > I like SmalltalkHub a lot. But still it is centralized and > if it is down it is down for all. Dont we need answers to the > question how independent our infrastructure will be in the future? > If it is backuped, mirrored or restorable? > > Dale proposed mirroring for Metacello [3]. We also have filetree [4] > for directory-based Monticello packages enabling the use of Git, > SVN, ... allowing us to use more reliable infrastructure like GitHub, ... > Should we care? > > But maybe I should shut up and wait until someone reboots > Squeaksource again (which is down today yet again) > > Bye > T. > > [1] http://astares.blogspot.de/2005/12/squeaksource-server-image.html > [1] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6093 > [2] http://code.google.com/p/metacello/issues/detail?id=152 > [3] https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree > > > > >

July 4, 2012