July 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] [update 1.4] #14448

by Esteban Lorenzano

14448 ----- Issue 6231: FileList revert http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6231 Issue 6250: backport configurations browser http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6250

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Damien Cassou

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Am I wrong considering migration to Git-or-AnythingElseTextOriented to be a > give up on hopes for a real object-oriented source control/management as it > could and should be in Smalltalk? can you think of any feature we could have now we couldn't with Git? -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Dennis Schetinin

Am I wrong considering migration to Git-or-AnythingElseTextOriented to be a give up on hopes for a real object-oriented source control/management as it could and should be in Smalltalk? Best regards, Dennis Schetinin Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Wednesday, 4 July 2012 Ð³. at 16:02, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > On 04 Jul 2012, at 13:50, phil(a)highoctane.be (mailto:phil@highoctane.be) wrote: > > > I am using Mercurial for all of the other projects and technologies. > > > > With a full copy of everything locally, it helps indeed when we get crashes... > > > > But GIT/Hg isn't giving you the change sorter. > > I have used/tried FileTree/Git(hub) a bit and it is cool and it works. > But I do miss (tools) integration in the image. > The workflow also changes a bit, it is no longer all Smalltalk. > > IMHO it is not yet quite ready. > > Sven

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Camillo Bruni

On 2012-07-04, at 13:50, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > camillo > > we are not ready and we do not want to rush. > you're kidding me... FS-Git is out there since 2 damn years! - I did a 1 week sprint to improve the performance on it and fix some bugs - I wrote in 1 day a tiny wrapper around it so a git repos can be directly used with MC => So I recycle 100% of the UI AKA being backwards compatible from MC VersionInfo on Captain Hindsight speeking: If we'd invested the time gone into Smalltalk into that project we would already be done! But somebody had to push that smalltalkhub thing right? I remember I already had a hard fight here on the mailing list in favor of git. So I am particularly frustrated. > On Jul 4, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > >> IT'S CALLED GIT!!! >> ++++++++++++++++++ >> >> Or like any other service that is also used by non smalltalkers! >> >> It's incredible how much effort goes into improving something like >> Monticello, where there are stable wide spread solutions out there >> that work since years. >> >> >> - We have an alpha implementation of FS-Git >> - We have a quite stable implementation of Filetree >> - We have a quite stable implementation of Cypress >> >> >> I really like Smalltalkhub, but if we could focus such an effort on >> these 3 tools here, we can have a nice solution that outperforms >> MC in **EVERY** aspect. >> >> I do not have much time on my side right now, but I am working towards >> a fully git based solution in pharo, and everybody else should too. >> >> cami >> >> > >

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 04 Jul 2012, at 13:50, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > I am using Mercurial for all of the other projects and technologies. > > With a full copy of everything locally, it helps indeed when we get crashes... > > But GIT/Hg isn't giving you the change sorter. I have used/tried FileTree/Git(hub) a bit and it is cool and it works. But I do miss (tools) integration in the image. The workflow also changes a bit, it is no longer all Smalltalk. IMHO it is not yet quite ready. Sven

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by phil＠highoctane.be

I am using Mercurial for all of the other projects and technologies. With a full copy of everything locally, it helps indeed when we get crashes... But GIT/Hg isn't giving you the change sorter. 2012/7/4 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> > IT'S CALLED GIT!!! > ++++++++++++++++++ > > Or like any other service that is also used by non smalltalkers! > > It's incredible how much effort goes into improving something like > Monticello, where there are stable wide spread solutions out there > that work since years. > > > - We have an alpha implementation of FS-Git > - We have a quite stable implementation of Filetree > - We have a quite stable implementation of Cypress > > > I really like Smalltalkhub, but if we could focus such an effort on > these 3 tools here, we can have a nice solution that outperforms > MC in **EVERY** aspect. > > I do not have much time on my side right now, but I am working towards > a fully git based solution in pharo, and everybody else should too. > > cami > > > -- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil(a)highoctane.be| Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges Belgium

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

camillo we are not ready and we do not want to rush. Stef On Jul 4, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > IT'S CALLED GIT!!! > ++++++++++++++++++ > > Or like any other service that is also used by non smalltalkers! > > It's incredible how much effort goes into improving something like > Monticello, where there are stable wide spread solutions out there > that work since years. > > > - We have an alpha implementation of FS-Git > - We have a quite stable implementation of Filetree > - We have a quite stable implementation of Cypress > > > I really like Smalltalkhub, but if we could focus such an effort on > these 3 tools here, we can have a nice solution that outperforms > MC in **EVERY** aspect. > > I do not have much time on my side right now, but I am working towards > a fully git based solution in pharo, and everybody else should too. > > cami > >

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

yes we discussed about that with marcus. Now our concern was more about the people maintaining it. Stef On Jul 4, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: > Hi guys, > > I volunteer for replicate hosting of basic community infractructure like > forthcomming SmalltalkHub on my server located at Hetzner in Germany. > > Going just recently through old server crash and being able to restore > main functionality back on new server in few hours, you can expect for > me to have some experience running with all needed reliability and high > availability in mind. > > By the way, dedicated server at Hetzner costs me just 50 EUR/month, and > this is 4 core 16GB RAM 2x3TB disk machine. Prices are therefore so low > that everyone can afford such a server now, ESUG and/or Pharo consortium > at least :) > > Best regards > Janko > > > > On 04. 07. 2012 10:23, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> On Jul 4, 2012, at 9:28 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >>> There must be a business behind all this to take care of the funding and the daily operations. >>> >>> Is the consortium going to be taking care of these aspects? >> >> It is already as a fireman. >> >> Esteban is payed by INRIA for helping to set up the consortium and he is losing time >> with such issues. >> >> Indeed we should think about how to replicate information. >> About smalltalkHub one deal was that INRIA will host it and replicate on three hosts. >> Now since smalltalkHub was delayed for more than 8 months the people changed agenda. >> >> We will check that again with nicolas and christophe because right now it is hosted at object fusion. >> Now we were thinking that ESUG could help there because ESUG has also several servers to run and >> marcus does not have the time to deal with multiple and different servers. So one central one to manage >> ESUG and SmalltalkHub would make sense but nothing was acted so far. >> >> >> Stef >> >> >> >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> 2012/7/4 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> >>> >>> Norbert wrote: >>>> Ok, nothing to do here. Thank you, Captain Hindsight! >>> >>> While I enjoy your humor and politeness on one side I really >>> doubt that there is nothing to do here. >>> >>> How often do we face the outage of SqS. And now a private >>> server is yet again gone without an easy restore/access to >>> the backup. It's nice that we can all check our caches to >>> find the mcz's - but is this the backup strategy to go for >>> the future? >>> >>> I provided the ConfigurationBrowser in Pharo to easily load >>> Metacello packages directly from within the image and spend >>> a lot of time checking appropriate configs for the various >>> Pharo versions. On one side we invest in making it easier >>> for people to load packages on the other side it often >>> did not work due to this brickle hosting we currently have. >>> >>> Don't we need a serious discussion and actions on how >>> to get a reliable infrastructure with official mirrors? >>> >>> By providing a prebuilt SqueakSource in the past [1] I hoped >>> the SqS situation will get better when people may setup own >>> servers and we have more and more mirrors on the net. It did >>> not happen. We now know that SqS is the "old way". >>> >>> We currently face decisions what servers to use (SS3, SmalltalkHub, ...) >>> see issue #6093 [2] >>> >>> Now we move to SS3 and SmalltalkHub. Can we answer the question >>> how reliable they are? >>> >>> I like SmalltalkHub a lot. But still it is centralized and >>> if it is down it is down for all. Dont we need answers to the >>> question how independent our infrastructure will be in the future? >>> If it is backuped, mirrored or restorable? >>> >>> Dale proposed mirroring for Metacello [3]. We also have filetree [4] >>> for directory-based Monticello packages enabling the use of Git, >>> SVN, ... allowing us to use more reliable infrastructure like GitHub, ... >>> Should we care? >>> >>> But maybe I should shut up and wait until someone reboots >>> Squeaksource again (which is down today yet again) >>> >>> Bye >>> T. >>> >>> [1] http://astares.blogspot.de/2005/12/squeaksource-server-image.html >>> [1] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6093 >>> [2] http://code.google.com/p/metacello/issues/detail?id=152 >>> [3] https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Aida/Web > Smalltalk Web Application Server > http://www.aidaweb.si >

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Camillo Bruni

IT'S CALLED GIT!!! ++++++++++++++++++ Or like any other service that is also used by non smalltalkers! It's incredible how much effort goes into improving something like Monticello, where there are stable wide spread solutions out there that work since years. - We have an alpha implementation of FS-Git - We have a quite stable implementation of Filetree - We have a quite stable implementation of Cypress I really like Smalltalkhub, but if we could focus such an effort on these 3 tools here, we can have a nice solution that outperforms MC in **EVERY** aspect. I do not have much time on my side right now, but I am working towards a fully git based solution in pharo, and everybody else should too. cami

July 4, 2012

[Pharo-project] pharo-2.0-tests Â» 32,linux - Build # 181 - Still Failing!

by jenkins-pharo.ci.inria.fr＠jenkins-server.lille.inria.fr

July 4, 2012