July 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Camillo Bruni

>>> I have used/tried FileTree/Git(hub) a bit and it is cool and it works. >>> But I do miss (tools) integration in the image. >>> The workflow also changes a bit, it is no longer all Smalltalk. >>> >>> IMHO it is not yet quite ready. >> >> indeed. I remember that my solution didn't change a thing from the image side >> experience. It was "simply" a git backend for MC. > > But maybe we are talking about different things ? > > I used Dale's stuff ( http://github.com/svenvc ), is your FS-Git different ? > Where can we read about it ? (a.k.a. documentation ;-) A demo was run under https://github.com/dh83/fs-git I didn't fully completed the code, so my model of class-extensions i wrong. But dale's filetree is quite close to it, I simply don't care about storing additional meta-data for monticello :P since that's not necessarily needed. The image side-extensions are here: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/fs-git.html/ But I don't remember which is the last version of Pharo it ran on, plus most probably FS got refactored a bit in the meantime... Most of it was developed by Max Leske in Berne for his master, and most of it is nicely test covered :)

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Frank Shearar

On 4 July 2012 13:23, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 2012-07-04, at 14:02, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> >> On 04 Jul 2012, at 13:50, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >>> I am using Mercurial for all of the other projects and technologies. >>> >>> With a full copy of everything locally, it helps indeed when we get crashes... >>> >>> But GIT/Hg isn't giving you the change sorter. >> >> I have used/tried FileTree/Git(hub) a bit and it is cool and it works. >> But I do miss (tools) integration in the image. >> The workflow also changes a bit, it is no longer all Smalltalk. >> >> IMHO it is not yet quite ready. > > indeed. I remember that my solution didn't change a thing from the image side > experience. It was "simply" a git backend for MC. Gitocello [1] takes this approach. While Tim Felgentreff started it to ease porting between Squeak and GNU Smalltalk, it works just fine as a new MC backend. I use it a fair bit [2][3][4]. Mind you I _haven't_ tried collaboration with it. If you had conflicts you would need to use git to address the conflicts, and you can have "inter-method" conflicts which are impossible with FileTree. (In other words, conflict markers could start in one method and end in another.) Probably the chunk format's date stuff would get annoying, as well. [1] https://github.com/timfel/gitocello [2] https://github.com/frankshearar/Unification [3] https://github.com/frankshearar/PersistentUnionFind [4] https://github.com/frankshearar/Zippers frank

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 04 Jul 2012, at 14:41, Goubier Thierry wrote: > I'm using filetree, which works, but requires that double work flow : Save in monticello, and a quite complex sequence of git commands so that all the changes are taken in account. That is my point exactly: it is not that it is difficult, but you have to work in two environments (image/terminal/git-app) and be extra careful not to make mistakes (like saving two versions locally without committing). I would also like to have the list of MC package versions inside the image and compare things there. Moving to files and even using github to compare versions is way less useful than comparing things in Smalltalk.

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Goubier Thierry

Le 04/07/2012 14:05, Camillo Bruni a Ã©crit : > > On 2012-07-04, at 13:50, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> camillo >> >> we are not ready and we do not want to rush. >> > > you're kidding me... FS-Git is out there since 2 damn years! Ok then. How to use it then ? How does it integrates with a git repo / submodule which contains more than just Smalltalk code ? Which version of Pharo does it works on ? I'm using filetree, which works, but requires that double work flow : Save in monticello, and a quite complex sequence of git commands so that all the changes are taken in account. So, if a better solution is available, i'd be happy to use it. Especially if it allows a better mastery of git concepts and avoiding the use of gitk GUIs and friends to try to make sense of what's happening with the git repository. Thierry -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 04 Jul 2012, at 14:23, Camillo Bruni wrote: > > On 2012-07-04, at 14:02, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> >> On 04 Jul 2012, at 13:50, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >>> I am using Mercurial for all of the other projects and technologies. >>> >>> With a full copy of everything locally, it helps indeed when we get crashes... >>> >>> But GIT/Hg isn't giving you the change sorter. >> >> I have used/tried FileTree/Git(hub) a bit and it is cool and it works. >> But I do miss (tools) integration in the image. >> The workflow also changes a bit, it is no longer all Smalltalk. >> >> IMHO it is not yet quite ready. > > indeed. I remember that my solution didn't change a thing from the image side > experience. It was "simply" a git backend for MC. But maybe we are talking about different things ? I used Dale's stuff ( http://github.com/svenvc ), is your FS-Git different ? Where can we read about it ? (a.k.a. documentation ;-) Sven

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Herby VojÄÃk

Camillo Bruni wrote: > On 2012-07-04, at 14:02, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> On 04 Jul 2012, at 13:50, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >>> I am using Mercurial for all of the other projects and technologies. >>> >>> With a full copy of everything locally, it helps indeed when we get crashes... >>> >>> But GIT/Hg isn't giving you the change sorter. >> I have used/tried FileTree/Git(hub) a bit and it is cool and it works. >> But I do miss (tools) integration in the image. >> The workflow also changes a bit, it is no longer all Smalltalk. >> >> IMHO it is not yet quite ready. > > indeed. I remember that my solution didn't change a thing from the image side > experience. It was "simply" a git backend for MC. But, well, you should then do something with near-zero obstacle experience, like mirroring all included-by-default packages on github or butbucket, uploading your wrapper/backend with ConfigurationOf and all bells and whistles into some MC repository (SmalltalkHub?), include with it the code that automatically re-assigns repository paths from SqueakSource/whatever into github, so people can just load it and get in. That way, more or them could actually try. Herby

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Camillo Bruni

On 2012-07-04, at 14:02, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > On 04 Jul 2012, at 13:50, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > >> I am using Mercurial for all of the other projects and technologies. >> >> With a full copy of everything locally, it helps indeed when we get crashes... >> >> But GIT/Hg isn't giving you the change sorter. > > I have used/tried FileTree/Git(hub) a bit and it is cool and it works. > But I do miss (tools) integration in the image. > The workflow also changes a bit, it is no longer all Smalltalk. > > IMHO it is not yet quite ready. indeed. I remember that my solution didn't change a thing from the image side experience. It was "simply" a git backend for MC.

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, No, what is wrong is considering monticello itself an object oriented control management system. Right now MC does not provides anything that can be thought as that... even more, MC does not provides anything better than current CMS around... So, what we have now is an old CMS, and a lot of tools trying to be compatible with that old system. Imagine if GIT would tried to be compatible with CVS... and to create an object control management is a considerable effort, no one want to do, and probably pointless... at least right now. best, Esteban On Jul 4, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Dennis Schetinin wrote: > Am I wrong considering migration to Git-or-AnythingElseTextOriented to be a give up on hopes for a real object-oriented source control/management as it could and should be in Smalltalk? > > Best regards, > Dennis Schetinin > Sent with Sparrow > > On Wednesday, 4 July 2012 Ð³. at 16:02, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> >> On 04 Jul 2012, at 13:50, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >>> I am using Mercurial for all of the other projects and technologies. >>> >>> With a full copy of everything locally, it helps indeed when we get crashes... >>> >>> But GIT/Hg isn't giving you the change sorter. >> >> I have used/tried FileTree/Git(hub) a bit and it is cool and it works. >> But I do miss (tools) integration in the image. >> The workflow also changes a bit, it is no longer all Smalltalk. >> >> IMHO it is not yet quite ready. >> >> Sven >

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Putting Cairo in the VM?

by Igor Stasenko

Ok, the build #27 is built a first VM with cairo library. Congratulations! :) https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/NativeBoost/job/NB-Cog-Mac-Cocoa/27/ Check it out. Please note that all plugins and libraries is now in .app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins not in .app/Contents/Resouces (the plugin search logic is changed accordingly)

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by phil＠highoctane.be

Frustration is a good thing. Especially as a strong motivation factor :-D All Smalltalk is nice but I doubt Freetype and Cairo are very Smalltalkish. And Git itself is quite a couple a moving parts on the client side. That kind of argument is moot. As long as you are able to make it run properly, and it is useful, why not becoming our Git-hero ? :-p 2012/7/4 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> > > On 2012-07-04, at 13:50, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > camillo > > > > we are not ready and we do not want to rush. > > > > you're kidding me... FS-Git is out there since 2 damn years! > > - I did a 1 week sprint to improve the performance on it and fix some bugs > - I wrote in 1 day a tiny wrapper around it so a git repos can be directly > used > with MC > > => So I recycle 100% of the UI AKA being backwards compatible from > MC VersionInfo on > > > Captain Hindsight speeking: > > If we'd invested the time gone into Smalltalk into that project we would > already > be done! > > But somebody had to push that smalltalkhub thing right? > > I remember I already had a hard fight here on the mailing list in favor of > git. > So I am particularly frustrated. > > > > > > On Jul 4, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > > > >> IT'S CALLED GIT!!! > >> ++++++++++++++++++ > >> > >> Or like any other service that is also used by non smalltalkers! > >> > >> It's incredible how much effort goes into improving something like > >> Monticello, where there are stable wide spread solutions out there > >> that work since years. > >> > >> > >> - We have an alpha implementation of FS-Git > >> - We have a quite stable implementation of Filetree > >> - We have a quite stable implementation of Cypress > >> > >> > >> I really like Smalltalkhub, but if we could focus such an effort on > >> these 3 tools here, we can have a nice solution that outperforms > >> MC in **EVERY** aspect. > >> > >> I do not have much time on my side right now, but I am working towards > >> a fully git based solution in pharo, and everybody else should too. > >> > >> cami > >> > >> > > > > > > >

July 4, 2012