July 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] [update 2.0] #20186

by Marcus Denker

20186 ----- Issue 6253: Failing tests: Obsolete classes related to SpotLight http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6253 -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] SSL plugins in Jenkins one click

by Igor Stasenko

On 5 July 2012 15:40, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: > You are of course right, Torsten. > > I am beginning to get *very* tired of this situation. > > Has anybody ever tried downloading missing plugins from the image side and then install them ? > Can that be done (correctly), I mean does the VM have to restart then ? > What about needed permissions ? > > If it can be done, I would be more than willing to write and integrate the necessary Smalltalk code, beginning with the SSL plugin. > It must be done.. The necessary code should be downloaded after user's confirmation, this is what all systems do.. About SSL plugin on windows.. i will reply after checking > Sven > > On 05 Jul 2012, at 14:49, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > >> The one click from Jenkins does not include the SSL plugins >> for Windows. With the recent additions of Zinc/Zodiac >> to Pharo 2.0 some tests fail. >> So one has to manually download the DLLs for Windows >> >> http://code.google.com/p/squeakssl/downloads/list >> >> and place it in the same directory as the VM. >> >> Apologize if this is a known and already on the (Jenkins) >> todo list. At least I havent found an issue for it. >> Should we open one? >> >> Bye >> T. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Is Pharo a Smalltalk or Smalltalk inspired? (was I added a german wikipedia article on pharo)

by Sean P. DeNigris

Igor Stasenko wrote > > Smalltalk by its nature are made to be easily changed. > ... > Please don't turn the idea into dogma. > YES!!! Part of the confusion is that Smalltalk and Smalltalk-80 get collapsed, but are not the same. Smalltalk-80 was the fifth cycle (per the Blue Book) in what was supposed to be a continuous process of learning how to do systems... Please see "The Computer Revolution Hasn't Happened Yet", Alan Kay's keynote, October 7, 1997, OOPSLA'97 - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2950949730059754521 (if you must, skip to 57:25 for the part most relevant to this reply). Here are some quotes (in order of relevance): "The deepest thing I would like to communicate with you today... is we don't know how to design systems yet. So let's not make what we don't know into a religion for god's sakes." "The thing that I'm most proud of about Smalltalk - pretty much the only thing from my standpoint that I'm proud of - is that is has been so good at getting rid of previous versions of itself" "One of the things we liked about Smalltalk was not what it could do, but the fact that it was such a good vehicle for bootstrapping the next set of ideas we had about how to do systems programming" "We have to have our systems let us get to the next levels of abstraction as we come to them." "A couple of years ago we started this project called Squeak, which is simply not an attempt to give the world a free Smalltalk, but an attempt to give the world a bootstrapping mechanism for something much better than Smalltalk, and when you fool around with Squeak, please, please, think of it from that standpoint. Think of how you can obsolete the damn thing by using its own mechanisms for getting the next version of itself." -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/I-added-a-german-wikipedia-article-on-pharo-tp4638330… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Dale Henrichs

embedded reply ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Goubier Thierry" <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 1:32:13 AM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub | | Le 04/07/2012 17:50, Dale Henrichs a Ã©crit : | > Yes, | > | > FileTree is actually modeling the Monticello definition structure | > on disk ... git does a very good job of tracking changes at the | > method level when methods are stored in separate files (it | > recognizes method renames) ... | | Well, there is still the fact that : | | - One version of Filetree over the past months changed the name of | the | directory from PackageName to PackageName.package; kind of messed up | the | git history tracking... | | - And git really likes to do git add for all the new files that | appears | on a regular basis. Changing package structure as opposed to changing package content does unnecessarily perturb the git history. I think that since I've started working with FileTree I've gone through 5 different disk formats:) With multiple dialects on board the rate of change will be slower (a good thing). | | It still shows that the Smalltalk/via Filetree model isn't the one | git | expects, but we do benefit from it. I'm also not certain git would | follow class renames. There aren't really any files outside of the properties file that are associated with a class in this model, so there's nothing explicit to track ... the methods in the class will be tracked nicely (as a rename). | | > multiple files makes reading source on disk a bit awkward, but | > that's what we've got the Smalltalk image for ... how many people | > out there unzip their .mcz files to read Smalltalk source? | | Me! | | I do open .mcz files at times; I appreciate the fact it's as easy as | clicking on it and then search into the produced files. | | The fact that Linux recognize them as zip archives helps, too. Haha...well the directory structure is searchable, too .. just a more complicated incantation:) Dale

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Putting Cairo in the VM?

by Igor Stasenko

On 5 July 2012 14:44, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Igor I loaded everything andâ¦ it nearly worked :) > > > except > First > > This package depends on the following classes: > MultiNewParagraph > You must resolve these dependencies before you will be able to load these definitions: > drawOnAthensCanvas:bounds: > Yes, because it exists in my image, but not in 2.0 anymore (its in deprecated pkg) :) This is actually never implemented extension: drawOnAthensCanvas: anAthensCanvas bounds: aRectangle self shouldBeImplemented. because when i started it i had hope that we can use Paragraph for Athens.. No, the whole multinewparagraph/textscanner & rest will never work with athens. so i will just remove it > > second > loadSymbol: aSymbolName fromModule: moduleName > > (moduleName = '' or: [moduleName = 0 ]) ifTrue: [ > "if module name is empty, try to retrieve symbol from globals " > ^ self getGlobalSymbolPointer: aSymbolName > ]. > ^ super loadSymbol: aSymbolName fromModule: moduleName > > > > error: aString > "Throw a generic Error exception." > > ^Error new signal: aString > > > 'failed to get a symbol address: cairo_image_surface_create' > > here is what I did > > > Gofer it > url: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Athens'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; > load. > (Smalltalk globals classNamed: 'ConfigurationOfAthens') loadBleedingEdge. > > Gofer it > url: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/MetacelloRepository'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfXMLSupport'; > load. > (Smalltalk globals classNamed: 'ConfigurationOfXMLSupport') load. > > Gofer it > squeaksource: 'Athens'; > package: 'Athens-SVG'; > load. > > ASZoomerMorph new > svg: 'Coche_ok_verte.svg' zoom: 0.1; > openInWorld > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 2012, at 9:28 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> On 5 July 2012 09:00, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 5 July 2012 07:37, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> It is working? >>>> Because when I tried to open my athens image it crashes. >>>> Igor this is the image you program the animationMorph. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>> >>> I had no time to check the build yet.. >>> Will do it now. >>> >> ok.. the build is invalid.. >> it looks like the search path changes for vm plugins are not integrated/changed. >> >> To determine that, you can simply open settings browser and in >> appearance/freetype it should say that freetype available. >> >> Will check that with Esteban.. i thought we already comitted that change. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Dale Henrichs

Dennis, Understood... You asked a very good question! If using git meant that we would have to go backwards to text-based development I wouldn't be so enthused. In the past I was "on the record" as being very skeptical of being able to use git for Smalltalk development, but back in January when I saw HOW Otto Behrens had mapped the Monticello package structure to disk, I saw that it could work very well for Smalltalk development. Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Dennis Schetinin" <chaetal(a)gmail.com> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:03:01 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub | | | Dale, | | | Thank you for all (this and other) explanations you provided on the | topic. | | | When the topic is to provide another backend for storing Smalltalk | code, it's absolutely ok and all the advantages are understood. | | | But when some people say something like "source code is text and | nothing more" (at least that's what I hear, though I can be | mistaking) and we shouldn't reinvent the wheelâ¦ and I see it in | context of "Smalltalk is so unpopular"â¦ and the logic is something | like: we should popularize it â hence we should use (preferably, | only) git for source-code control â and we should abandon images | because most developers do not like them, etc, etc. Well, it's a bit | scaring, because when I try to extrapolate and understand where it | is leading us, I wonder where's Smalltalk there? Do we need it at | all?! :) | | | Once again, I just feel this tendency in our society, and it's very | likely I'm misunderstanding and absolutely wrong. I'll be glad to | know I am, so I just wanted to clarify. | | | | | | Best regards, | Dennis Schetinin | Sent with Sparrow | | | | On Wednesday, 4 July 2012 Ð³. at 20:30, Dale Henrichs wrote: | | | | | | Dennis, | | | If you look at the Cypress format[1] (used by FileTree), it is the | Monticello package structure "serialized to disk". Reading the | Cypress format from disk is no different than materializing the | Monticello package structure from an .mcz file. So any program that | an reason about the definitions from an .mcz file can reason about | the definitions from the Cypress format. | | | Cypress format may look like text, but to me I see Smalltalk | objects:) | | | Dale | | | [1] | https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress/blob/master/img/CypressStructure-S… | ----- Original Message ----- | | From: "Dennis Schetinin" < chaetal(a)gmail.com > | | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | | Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 6:29:40 AM | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub | | | | | | On Wednesday, 4 July 2012 Ð³. at 16:11, Damien Cassou wrote: | | | | | | | | | | On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Dennis Schetinin < | | chaetal(a)gmail.com | | > wrote: | | | | | | | | Am I wrong considering migration to Git-or-AnythingElseTextOriented | | to be a | | give up on hopes for a real object-oriented source | | control/management | | as it | | could and should be in Smalltalk? | | | | | | can you think of any feature we could have now we couldn't with | | Git? | | I didn't say "now", I talked about "hopes". E.g. hopes for "Source" | | Control Tool being aware of refactorings and other *operations* I | | apply to my program, instead of treating it as a plain text with | | some changes of unknown nature. I'm not sure it's possible right | | now | | (I know it's not, better to say?). But with a Smalltalk-based | | source | | control we can have it on one splendid day in the future. And I | | think on the Git way we'll finish with just some advanced | | text-comparison algorithms. No? | | | | | | | | Best regards, | | Dennis Schetinin | | Sent with Sparrow | |

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] SSL plugins in Jenkins one click

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

You are of course right, Torsten. I am beginning to get *very* tired of this situation. Has anybody ever tried downloading missing plugins from the image side and then install them ? Can that be done (correctly), I mean does the VM have to restart then ? What about needed permissions ? If it can be done, I would be more than willing to write and integrate the necessary Smalltalk code, beginning with the SSL plugin. Sven On 05 Jul 2012, at 14:49, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > The one click from Jenkins does not include the SSL plugins > for Windows. With the recent additions of Zinc/Zodiac > to Pharo 2.0 some tests fail. > So one has to manually download the DLLs for Windows > > http://code.google.com/p/squeakssl/downloads/list > > and place it in the same directory as the VM. > > Apologize if this is a known and already on the (Jenkins) > todo list. At least I havent found an issue for it. > Should we open one? > > Bye > T.

July 5, 2012

[Pharo-project] git git git

by Camillo Bruni

To throw some more oil in the file. This is how versioning will work in Pharo: =================================================================================== 1. I prepared a complete FileSystem representation of all the units in the image - Packages - Classes - Methods 2. Model Resources instead of saving them in CompiledMethod - Packages have resources - Classes have resources - The resources themselves are a complete FileSystem allowing for all normal FS operations - See the attached image for a working prototype 3. Choose a decent, existing, stable versioning system (Since I know GIT it's git) - it must be distributed - it must be stable - it must support lazy loading 4. Supporting versioning of the internal tree structure - copy over the internal tree to the git repos - create a new commit message - upload it to some remote / external / local repository 5. Rewrite .changes file to work on top of a similar structure - cache the changes methods in a local git repos - commit on a regular interval - add support for restoring that 6. Rewrite existing method versions on top of a similar structure - lazily load the versions from a remote git location - hold the sources in a central git repository (much like PharoV10.sources) =================================================================================== I will provide a working prototype within a week, cause this issue is annoying me so much that it makes me feel like a complete retard when using pharo.

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Zinc in 1.4

by Esteban Lorenzano

merci :) On Jul 5, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > On 04 Jul 2012, at 17:13, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > >> Sven, if you want newer Zinc versions in pharo 1.4, could you provide the slice or packages? > > See detais in: > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6064 > >

July 5, 2012

[Pharo-project] SSL plugins in Jenkins one click

by Torsten Bergmann

The one click from Jenkins does not include the SSL plugins for Windows. With the recent additions of Zinc/Zodiac to Pharo 2.0 some tests fail. So one has to manually download the DLLs for Windows http://code.google.com/p/squeakssl/downloads/list and place it in the same directory as the VM. Apologize if this is a known and already on the (Jenkins) todo list. At least I havent found an issue for it. Should we open one? Bye T.

July 5, 2012