June 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Look and font competition

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jun 12, 2012, at 6:49 PM, Helene Bilbo wrote: > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote >> >> Now if somebody with better design tastes than us would have some time we >> would really like to get a >> real professional style for 2.0. >> > > Design is not a question of 'fonts' and 'tastes'. Better UI ususally has > some serious research background. You probably have to pay - or get > interested - (the right) professionals to do it, and itâs worth it too! Yes but so far we cannot afford it. > If there is one sheer 'taste' thing, i wonder if Pharo is capable of having > textured UI-elements, like Mac OSX Lion. I attach an image of a button with > a subtle texture to illustrate what i mean. > > Also, have a look at how this guy, Matt Gemmell, has something like Halos (I > know, you donât like them ;) adopted for iOS. It looks amazing! This is not that I do not like them. I do not like that when the get in our way. Else they are cool interaction devices. > http://mattgemmell.com/2012/05/14/mgtilemenu/ I'm not sure that you do not get lost with tile Menu > > http://forum.world.st/file/n4634496/texture.png Why could not we have button with a texture. There is a Iconic button > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Look-and-font-competition-tp4634175p4634496.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

June 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Look and font competition

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> I've got an interest in graphic design. I've just done a bit of reading around to familiarize myself with font choice. Thanks for sharing that with us. > First of all, there is the question of monospaced versus proportional fonts. It is widely believed that monospaced fonts are better for programming but then Smalltalk is often different and better. I notice that Pharo 1.4 uses proportional fonts and I've never had a problem with that. Indeed. For us one of the key point is ifTrue: [:each | and of course . and bla; yourself. readibility. > There is good discussion at [1]. > Then there are considerations of technology differences to consider between platforms. > * A difference in rendering between Microsoft and Apple [2] > * Whether ClearType is available cross platform? Some advantages [3] > * Is TrueType available on all platforms? > * Will anti-aliasing be always-on? > [1] http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/5473/does-anyone-prefer-prop… > [2] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/06/12.html > [3] http://blogs.msdn.com/b/fontblog/archive/2005/12/13/503236.aspx > > Some points against proportional fonts are: > > 1. Not designed for programming. Distinguishing small-o, cap-o & zero and one, small-i, cap-i, small-l, cap-L is the critical feature. Punctuation is often not very distinctive. A little while ago there was a hack to make the period character larger. Also in Pharo 1.4 cap-i and small-l are hard to distinguish. > 2. Alignment of indents. Mainly this is where different developers can use 8, 4 or 2 spaces for fixed tabstops which affects the alignment of text. However searching World > System > Settings for "tab" doesn't show this is configurable, so Pharo seems to sidestep this issue. > > So I like... > * Droid Sans (http://www.google.com/webfonts/specimen/Droid+Sans) Apache License. Steve Matteson. > > * Ubuntu (http://www.google.com/webfonts/specimen/Ubuntu) (similar to Open Font License) > > Some points for monospaced fonts are: > > 3. Some characters are just wider than others. Cramming an 'm' into the space of an 'i' makes it challenging to design a good readable monospace font. > > 4. Most programmer fonts lack italic and bold - which I think becomes important for Nautilus. > > * From http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/30040/Font-Survey-42-of-the-Best-Monosp… I like... > > * Liberation Mono. In particular it seems the clearest of the lot when ClearType is disabled. It deals very well with point (1) above. However while the download page says it is Open Font License the download itself contains only a modified GPL2 license that allows embedding without modification of the font. Steve Matteson. > > * Droid Sans Mono. Same author. Distinguishable point (1). Strong period. Strong number 1 which matches how it appears in engineering drawings. Apache license. Also consider that people like what they are familiar with, and Android will become fairly widespread. > > * Dina. Clean without ClearType. Identical even with ClearType. MIT type license. > > AnonymousPro does also looks good. > > Disclaimer: I am yet to use these fonts in anger. Just reporting impressions so far. > > cheers -ben > > > > > > > > > > > As an aside, even with monospaced fonts there remains an issue with fixed tabstops where new text inserted preceeding a tab stop bumps the tab out of alignment with other vertically aligned text. An very interesting fix for this is "elastic tabstops" [2] [3] > [2] http://nickgravgaard.com/elastictabstops/ > [3] http://tibleiz.net/code-browser/elastic-tabstops.html > >

June 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Look and font competition

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jun 12, 2012, at 6:43 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> As an aside, even with monospaced fonts there remains an issue with fixed >> tabstops where new text inserted preceeding a tab stop bumps the tab out of >> alignment with other vertically aligned text. An very interesting fix for >> this is "elastic tabstops" [2] [3] >> [2] http://nickgravgaard.com/elastictabstops/ >> [3] http://tibleiz.net/code-browser/elastic-tabstops.html >> > we should do that :) but we need the code in pharo :) > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

June 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] who can have a look at Issue 5913: Remove Squeak epoch

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Why? > > If it ain't broke don't fix it. well with that argument we would still have image segment, projects, fileDirectory (soon killed), HttpSocket and other not broken but ugly citizen in the system. > We recently agreed that the Squeak epoch was well-defined, i.e. the start of the 20th century in GMT. This is clear if you read the SMalltalk-80 V2 sources. The reason advanced for changing to Unix was that the Squeak epoch is not well-defined. That argument is incorrect. > > Further, the Squeak epoch is embedded in the VMs, in their answering both seconds and microseconds from the epoch. So there's work involved in getting rid of it. OK this is a good argument to me. > > As far as I can see changing it is pointless wasted effort. I would not say it like that. Because there is a lot of work we do that look pointless but are clearly not. Soon a lot of them will really pay off (ring, nautilus, spec, athens, zinc). Now Sean what was your problem? Because may be we can also improve Squeak-epoch. Stef > > > > > > The > > argument on the squeak list seemed to be: > > - the squeak epoch has a certain beauty to it, being the turn of the century > > vs > > - why reinvent the wheel? Everybody already knows what the unix epoch is > > (e.g. you can point them to Wikipedia) > > > > The full discussion is here: > > http://forum.world.st/Re-Pharo-project-Epoch-returns-local-offset-td4630581… > > > > The main thing is to make sure that whatever we use is based on UTC and not > > local time. > > > > So - two options > > - PharoOffset := 1 January, 1901 UTC > > - Unix offset > > > > Also, whatever we change it to (and IMHO it really needs to be changed), I > > think existing live objects from previous Pharos (e.g. that are materialized > > with fuel) may be invalid (like the recent zip/mcz consequences) > > > > -- > > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/who-can-have-a-look-at-Issue-5913-Remove-Squeak-epoch… > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > best, > > Eliot > > > > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot >

June 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 2.0 Jenkins build failing

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

What is the problem? Because with camillo we still have some change to get in such as the compression changes and monticello for FS. Now for the progress bar the best way is that we disable it, load your change and reenable it. Are you changes loading? Then can we load something after :) Are the two most important questions :) Stef

June 12, 2012

[Pharo-project] Problem with FileHandle >> open [WAS] Re: FileReference should throw error when deleting unexisting files?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi sean. It's time you update your image ;) > the tests in latest images: > > works with > Pharo2.0a > Latest update: #20119 > > does not work with > Pharo2.0a > Latest update: #20129 > > > problem is that (in the broken one) "reference openWritable: true" answers > a handler with a NIL id.... > > will try to debug later. but if someone already have a hint... > > So I have found the problem. In the broken imagen: FileHandle >> open self flag: 'TODO: for now we solely rely on the old FileStreams' "id := self basicOpen. id ifNil: [ reference exists ifFalse: [FileDoesNotExist signalWith: reference]. self error: 'Unable to open file ' , reference printString]" so of course the id remains in nil when it shouldn't. And the image where it works the code is not commened. If I uncomment the code of course it works. So what was the idea beheind this change? camillo? > cheers > > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 6:27 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < >> marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Mariano Martinez Peck wrote >>>> > >>>> > really??? i have just tried with that VM and I still get a false. Can >>>> you >>>> > try with a different name instead of 'plonk' ??? like >>>> 'dasdasdasdasdasd' ? >>>> > :) >>>> >>>> that worked too... I'm attaching >>>> http://forum.world.st/file/n4634490/CogVM.zip the vm on Nabble . Just >>>> to be >>>> clear, you're highlighting the whole block and doing "PrintIt", right? >>>> >>> >>> yes, I do that. >>> Tried with that VM, same result. >>> Just to clarify, the output of Smalltalk vm version is >>> >>> >>> Smalltalk vm version 'CoInterpreter VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 >>> uuid: bec8cdf0-4e06-4975-8c02-e882fadf4df3 Jun 1 2012, >>> StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 uuid: >>> bec8cdf0-4e06-4975-8c02-e882fadf4df3 Jun 1 2012, >>> https://git.gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: >>> 2b16c2cfc16ef2e08dbc93113ce9552e810e3e78 Date: Wed May 30 16:16:27 2012 >>> +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>' >>> >>> maybe this is because I am in snow leopard and you are in lion? >>> >>> >> let's see something else. If you run all FileSystem tests, how many >> yellow do you have? I have 4, one looking suspicious ;) >> >> 312 run, 308 passes, 0 expected failures, 4 failures, 0 errors, 0 >> unexpected passes >> Failures: >> DiskFileSystemTest>>#testCopyDestExists >> DiskFileSystemTest>>#testFile >> DiskFileSystemTest>>#testRootIsNotAFile >> FileHandleTest>>#testCreatedOpen >> >> Errors: >> >> >> #testCreatedOpen is failing...maybe this is related.... >> >> >> >> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

June 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] FileReference should throw error when deleting unexisting files?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi sean. It's time you update your image ;) the tests in latest images: works with Pharo2.0a Latest update: #20119 does not work with Pharo2.0a Latest update: #20129 problem is that (in the broken one) "reference openWritable: true" answers a handler with a NIL id.... will try to debug later. but if someone already have a hint... cheers On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 6:27 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>wrote: >> >>> >>> Mariano Martinez Peck wrote >>> > >>> > really??? i have just tried with that VM and I still get a false. Can >>> you >>> > try with a different name instead of 'plonk' ??? like >>> 'dasdasdasdasdasd' ? >>> > :) >>> >>> that worked too... I'm attaching >>> http://forum.world.st/file/n4634490/CogVM.zip the vm on Nabble . Just >>> to be >>> clear, you're highlighting the whole block and doing "PrintIt", right? >>> >> >> yes, I do that. >> Tried with that VM, same result. >> Just to clarify, the output of Smalltalk vm version is >> >> >> Smalltalk vm version 'CoInterpreter VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 >> uuid: bec8cdf0-4e06-4975-8c02-e882fadf4df3 Jun 1 2012, >> StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 uuid: >> bec8cdf0-4e06-4975-8c02-e882fadf4df3 Jun 1 2012, >> https://git.gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: >> 2b16c2cfc16ef2e08dbc93113ce9552e810e3e78 Date: Wed May 30 16:16:27 2012 >> +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>' >> >> maybe this is because I am in snow leopard and you are in lion? >> >> > let's see something else. If you run all FileSystem tests, how many yellow > do you have? I have 4, one looking suspicious ;) > > 312 run, 308 passes, 0 expected failures, 4 failures, 0 errors, 0 > unexpected passes > Failures: > DiskFileSystemTest>>#testCopyDestExists > DiskFileSystemTest>>#testFile > DiskFileSystemTest>>#testRootIsNotAFile > FileHandleTest>>#testCreatedOpen > > Errors: > > > #testCreatedOpen is failing...maybe this is related.... > > > > >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

June 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] FileReference should throw error when deleting unexisting files?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 6:27 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>wrote: > >> >> Mariano Martinez Peck wrote >> > >> > really??? i have just tried with that VM and I still get a false. Can >> you >> > try with a different name instead of 'plonk' ??? like >> 'dasdasdasdasdasd' ? >> > :) >> >> that worked too... I'm attaching >> http://forum.world.st/file/n4634490/CogVM.zip the vm on Nabble . Just to >> be >> clear, you're highlighting the whole block and doing "PrintIt", right? >> > > yes, I do that. > Tried with that VM, same result. > Just to clarify, the output of Smalltalk vm version is > > > Smalltalk vm version 'CoInterpreter VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 > uuid: bec8cdf0-4e06-4975-8c02-e882fadf4df3 Jun 1 2012, > StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 uuid: > bec8cdf0-4e06-4975-8c02-e882fadf4df3 Jun 1 2012, > https://git.gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: > 2b16c2cfc16ef2e08dbc93113ce9552e810e3e78 Date: Wed May 30 16:16:27 2012 > +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>' > > maybe this is because I am in snow leopard and you are in lion? > > let's see something else. If you run all FileSystem tests, how many yellow do you have? I have 4, one looking suspicious ;) 312 run, 308 passes, 0 expected failures, 4 failures, 0 errors, 0 unexpected passes Failures: DiskFileSystemTest>>#testCopyDestExists DiskFileSystemTest>>#testFile DiskFileSystemTest>>#testRootIsNotAFile FileHandleTest>>#testCreatedOpen Errors: #testCreatedOpen is failing...maybe this is related.... > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

June 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Look and font competition

by Helene Bilbo

I attached proper document icons for .image, .changes and .sources files to this issue: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5626 -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Look-and-font-competition-tp4634175p4634497.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Look and font competition

by Helene Bilbo

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote > > Now if somebody with better design tastes than us would have some time we > would really like to get a > real professional style for 2.0. > Design is not a question of 'fonts' and 'tastes'. Better UI ususally has some serious research background. You probably have to pay - or get interested - (the right) professionals to do it, and itâs worth it too! If there is one sheer 'taste' thing, i wonder if Pharo is capable of having textured UI-elements, like Mac OSX Lion. I attach an image of a button with a subtle texture to illustrate what i mean. Also, have a look at how this guy, Matt Gemmell, has something like Halos (I know, you donât like them ;) adopted for iOS. It looks amazing! http://mattgemmell.com/2012/05/14/mgtilemenu/ http://forum.world.st/file/n4634496/texture.png -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Look-and-font-competition-tp4634175p4634496.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 12, 2012