June 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Auto create new and initialize methods for new class?

by Frank Shearar

On 16 June 2012 10:46, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Jun 16, 2012, at 11:00 AM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > >> 2012/6/16 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 15, 2012, at 12:06 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>>> why do you need an automatic new method? >>>>> Because by default >>>>> Â new invoke initialize >>>>> >>>>> and it works well. >>>>> >>>> >>>> StÃ©phane, I have been using VW Smalltalk and it creates new classes ,by default, with a #new method on the class side and a #initialize method on the instance side. >>> >>> yes I always hated hated so much to force teacher to kill student on metaclass altar after two weeks of smalltalk >> >> Another point of view: creating an instance is on class side > > what is the class side? :) > >> because >> instances are created from a kind of structural template (how many >> variables, etc...). You can also create an instance by cloning with >> copyâ¦ > > I have been there. Teaching a lot during many years and there is no simple explanation: after two hours of lecture you do not want to explain metaclasses. Just because people forgot (CLOS did not do this mistake) to invoke an initialize method when creating an object. StÃ©phane, would you mind expanding a bit on what mistake CLOS didn't make? frank > At the end I added in all my system the Behavior new>> self basicNew initialize > and the students were happy and me too. > > >> But initialize is on instance size because it modifies the private >> instance variables: >> one object can't directly modify another, except by kindly asking by >> sending a message. >> The instance is an object, the class is another, so the class kindly >> ask the instance to initialize itself. >> >> There's no trick here and it can't be more clear. >> The only trick is how a class side new inherits from instance side >> Behavior new, but we don't need this to explain initialize... >> >> Nicolas >> > >

June 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] start thinking on summer release of Pharo 1.4

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Philippe Marschall <kustos(a)gmx.net> wrote: > On 13.06.2012 11:08, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I started thinking on next release of Pharo 1.4 (which will be code named >> "summer", not an ugly number). >> > > It's only summer in the northern hemisphere. Eclipse renamed their winter > releases because it isn't winter in February in half of the world. > > +1 to simply call it 1.4.1 -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

June 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] #anyChanges still needed?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com > wrote: > I do not care to write extra stuff into the changes file. My hd is large > enough to handle some extra kilobytes... > > Usually, people do not add this kind of stuff just because. There is a reason behind. This method looks from 2004 (by Adrian Lienchard), and I don't think they have problems with the HDD either at that time. So I would like to be sure which is the reason. Cheers > > On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi guys. ChangeSet does at some point: >> >> anEvent itemKind = SystemChangeNotifier classKind ifTrue: [ >> ... >> anEvent isModified >> ifTrue: [anEvent anyChanges ifTrue: [self changeClass: anEvent item from: anEvent oldItem]]. >> anEven >> >> So...I don't understand the #anyChanges. We received an event saying that a class was modified, but it may not have any changes? if true, why was the event sent? >> Ok...let's say that there could be several reasons that a class was modified but only some of them make sense to change set. I can imagine people wanted to avoid writing stuff to .changes that didn't actullay represente a change? >> >> >> If this is the case, then #anyChanges looks like a bad name for me. >> Now, do we still need this mesage? can there be ClassModified events without changes? >> >> thanks >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> >> > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

June 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] #anyChanges still needed?

by Guillermo Polito

I do not care to write extra stuff into the changes file. My hd is large enough to handle some extra kilobytes... On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi guys. ChangeSet does at some point: > > anEvent itemKind = SystemChangeNotifier classKind ifTrue: [ > ... > anEvent isModified > ifTrue: [anEvent anyChanges ifTrue: [self changeClass: anEvent item from: anEvent oldItem]]. > anEven > > So...I don't understand the #anyChanges. We received an event saying that a class was modified, but it may not have any changes? if true, why was the event sent? > Ok...let's say that there could be several reasons that a class was modified but only some of them make sense to change set. I can imagine people wanted to avoid writing stuff to .changes that didn't actullay represente a change? > > If this is the case, then #anyChanges looks like a bad name for me. > Now, do we still need this mesage? can there be ClassModified events without changes? > > thanks > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >

June 16, 2012

[Pharo-project] #anyChanges still needed?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi guys. ChangeSet does at some point: anEvent itemKind = SystemChangeNotifier classKind ifTrue: [ ... anEvent isModified ifTrue: [anEvent anyChanges ifTrue: [self changeClass: anEvent item from: anEvent oldItem]]. anEven So...I don't understand the #anyChanges. We received an event saying that a class was modified, but it may not have any changes? if true, why was the event sent? Ok...let's say that there could be several reasons that a class was modified but only some of them make sense to change set. I can imagine people wanted to avoid writing stuff to .changes that didn't actullay represente a change? If this is the case, then #anyChanges looks like a bad name for me. Now, do we still need this mesage? can there be ClassModified events without changes? thanks -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

June 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] start thinking on summer release of Pharo 1.4

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

If it helps at all, I was able (with help) to get sound working on Linux. It's ugly: one has to copy/rename the plugin from another vm (to use cog). Once I got it working, I flagged a copy of the plugin in the hopes of making things easier next time. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Esteban Lorenzano [estebanlm(a)gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 6:20 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] start thinking on summer release of Pharo 1.4 Hi, you are asking for two things there: -a sound package for pharo 1.4 (I don't know if it exists, and in any case we cannot add it as a core package, you need to install it and see how it works by yourself) -a working sound plugin for iOS. TBH, while I'm including it in regular compilations, I never tested it, so I don't know if is working properly. Of course, to do games and others, is clear that we need a working sound system into iOS... . Esteban On Jun 15, 2012, at 11:36 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Well, spotlight is really cool indeed. Shift-Space XXX Enter. yay! > > But I like to have a view on several classes and typing HOPRÂ¨helps. > > Same when exploring the system for doing something (like > sound-synthesis for example). > > BTW, any new stuff on the MP3 front? I am looking at the sophie 1.0 > extract of yours. > > As of Pharo 1.4 Summer Release, having a somewhat cleaned up > Sound-synthesis in it would be nice. > > I am currently creating a little game in Smalltalk targeting the iPad > and a game without sound is not that of a game. > > For beginners and motivating people to move aboard the platform, sound > is important to have. > > KR > Philippe > > 2012/6/15 Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>: >> >> philippeback wrote >>> >>> Have been using Nautilus and OB and albeit Nautilus is nicer looking, >>> I find my way better with OB. Especially with the top search bar and >>> categorizing into protocols. More buttons under the lists in OB but I >>> do prefer them actually. >>> >> >> Overall, I like Nautilus' workflow better, but I know what you mean about >> the buttons. Even with the visual feedback, I'm never quite sure if I'm "in" >> class-side mode, or I have to hit the button to "get" class-side mode. I was >> missing the search bar, but with spotlight, it's moot. >> >> Sean >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/start-thinking-on-summer-release-of-Pharo-1-4-tp46345… >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > > > > -- > Philippe Back > Dramatic Performance Improvements > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: > phil(a)highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: > http://philippeback.be > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 > 1301 Bierges > Belgium >

June 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] start thinking on summer release of Pharo 1.4

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, I have had experts on it tell me exactly the opposite. Things like "always load specific versions" and "never load symbolic versions." They mean well (and have been helpful in the short term), but it is far from a generic solution. The "answer" will invariably be different "every time." Citezen is much appreciated, but your answer to getting it to load was to load a specific numeric version. Ditto Alien/FFI from others. I am simply repeating what I have been told. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 4:24 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] start thinking on summer release of Pharo 1.4 On Jun 16, 2012, at 12:57 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > But if I'm building a new image *today*, I want it to do the right thing now (automatically for the current version), with the same incantation as worked months ago or months from now. Bill when do you take the time to have a look at Metacello. Why people like me are spending days on writing 45 pages of documentation to hear you saying that. This scenario is supported since months nearly since Barcelona 2010. > If we can't do that, the config browser is pretty much a dream vs. reality. > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Sean P. DeNigris [sean(a)clipperadams.com] > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 2:49 PM > To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] start thinking on summer release of Pharo 1.4 > > Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote >> >> My gripe is... that configs... work (very) differently over time >> > With the current evolution of Metacello, this should not be the case. Done > right, what a config loads can be 100% static and repeatable. If you load a > literal version (e.g. '1.4'), which loads literal versions of dependent > projects (which they should unless there is a reason not to, e.g. a loose > dependency like Seaside on OB), which load literal versions all the way > down, it will do the same thing today, tomorrow, and ten years from now. > > The only hill to climb now is getting the word out about Metacello > conventions/best practices. > > > Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote >> >> If pre-loading, how about FFI? >> > I think "easily loadable" is the correct state, not included by default. > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/start-thinking-on-summer-release-of-Pharo-1-4-tp46345… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

June 16, 2012

[Pharo-project] Removing SystemChangeNotifier in favor of SystemAnnouncer

by Guillermo Polito

Can someone review these issues? http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6073&colspec=ID%20Type%20St… http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6074&thanks=6074&ts=1339860… Be careful with the pre and post things to evaluate. Tx!

June 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] PackageOrganizer packages vs. categories

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Haha, He will not discuss, but we can :). :) > > The migration is also painful right now because system events are a mess. We have SystemChangeNotifier and SystemAnnouncer, and there is a nice hack to keep both working. SystemAnnouncer is registered to SystemChangeNotifier and old system events are magicly coerced, transformed(whatever name you want to put) into system announcements. And RPackage suffers because some clients of it, sends inconsistent events like: > > - method recategorized when the method was removed > - a method removed event with an obsolete class that has no information > - recategorizations with categories in nil??? > > So, my heart tells me that we have to clean that slowly also to lower the system's entropy. > I've already moved some SystemChangeNotifier users to System announcer, there are left the senders of #notify:ofAllSystemChangesUsing: and some tests. So, there is a nice spot to attack. > Once events are tammed, the Rpackage integration with the rest of the system will be cleaner and clear. oh yes :) I really appreciate your systematic effort to help. Indeed if we can remove Change notifier and revise the announcements raised it will make our life easier. Stef

June 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] PackageOrganizer packages vs. categories

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

sean this is not that we cannot discuss :) this is that I'm physically tired too. So I need to rest and somebody has to do the stuff at the end. Stef On Jun 16, 2012, at 2:44 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote >> >> sorry but I do not have the energy to discuss that publicly and via email. >> The problem is that lot of people want a lotâ¦ and my energy is limited. >> > > I understand your frustration, but if we can't discuss important new > features on the developers list... wt#$@?! > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PackageOrganizer-packages-vs-categories-tp4635069p463… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

June 16, 2012