June 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 and Zodiac

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 27 Jun 2012, at 16:21, Henrik Sperre Johansen wrote: > Well, there's for sure no SqueakSSL so's or dll's in the downloads. > I assumed it might be set to build as internal, in which case it doesn't seem to be working as intended (at least on Windows) It is there the latest Mac OS and Linux VM's, but indeed not in the Windows VM. Then you just have to add it manually from here as before: http://code.google.com/p/squeakssl/downloads/list Sven

June 27, 2012

[Pharo-project] [update 2.0] #20164

by Marcus Denker

20164 ----- Issue 6186: fix Delay initialization http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6186 Issue 6178: All test jobs fail due to error in Zodiac tests http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6178 Issue 6183: Unicode initialization is the inverse as it should be http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6183 -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 and Zodiac

by Sean P. DeNigris

Dario Trussardi wrote > > Ok, i download it for MAC and paste it into Pharo-1.4-one-click content. > If you want to use the one-click (which contains the VMs for Windows/Mac/Linux and the image), just download the pre-made one for Pharo 1.4 at https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo%201.4/job/Pharo%201.4/lastSucces… I just confirmed that it works on Mac Lion - i.e. all the Zodiac tests pass after loading as Sven indicated above. In the future, for more flexibility, you can download a vm as Sven suggested and use it with your image. You can kind of think of the vm as the application and the image as the document, or if you're familiar with a language like ruby, the vm is something like the ruby interpreter. HTH, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-1-4-and-Zodiac-tp4636907p4636931.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 and Zodiac

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

On 27.06.2012 16:09, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > On 27 Jun 2012, at 15:59, Henrik Sperre Johansen wrote: > >> Are Windows/Linux versions of the plugin supposed to be automatically built? >> I seem to be getting the same primitive failures with the Cog-win.zip from the pharo site... > Ouch, I only checked the Mac version, that was OK. > > Are you sure the plugin is missing ? Well, there's for sure no SqueakSSL so's or dll's in the downloads. I assumed it might be set to build as internal, in which case it doesn't seem to be working as intended (at least on Windows) Cheers, Henry

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo and Namespaces

by GermÃ¡n Leiva

OT: Late binding rocks! On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:46 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>wrote: > Yes, finishing things up is the hardest part. It is also the part that > makes people and great art remembered. > > As I wrote yesterday on Twitter: Execution is everything. Ideas are > nothing. > > I should add: and everything gets better with late binding :-p > > Phil > > 2012/6/27 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > >> >> On Jun 27, 2012, at 9:24 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >> > Stephane, >> > >> > Wow, there is a limit to your utter awesomeness... Take care! >> > >> > On this namespace thing... Well, in fact, I found that nice with Java >> but at the end of the day, what matters is the modular bit. And we have >> that with packages and MC. We do no need the namespaces really. Prefixing >> the classes works and scales. Look at any Obj-C app, there are prefixes >> everywhere.... and it works well. >> > >> > No having this additional level makes Pharo much more approachable for >> new people. And in order to get traction, this is important. >> >> yes this is why we have camille (a master student student that is turning >> modules around in presence of class extensions and trying to see what would >> be the best solution) >> now we should finish what we started. >> Finishing is more difficult. >> >> Stef >> >> > >> > Phil >> > >> > >> > >> > 2012/6/27 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >> > James >> > >> > sorry but I'm at home stopped for 10 days because of a burnout (linked >> partly to pharo and the business I want to spawn for the community). >> > We talked endlessly about namespaces and so far we lived happily >> without. Right now I will not talk about that. Read subsystem the paper of >> wirfs-brock >> > if you want to see what I would prefer to have. But we need to have a >> scientific approach to evaluate. >> > And yes I read the implementation two years ago. >> > Finally did you see the list of topics that I mention? >> > - do you want to help in any of them to make pharo better? >> > because we have to get them first and I need all my energy for >> them. >> > >> > Stef >> > >> > >> > On Jun 27, 2012, at 12:25 AM, James Foster wrote: >> > >> > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 12:51 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> > > >> > >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 9:30 PM, James Foster wrote: >> > >> >> > >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>>>>>> What happened to the project from GermÃ¡n Leiva >> > >>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4I7fSVNX2A >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> we do not want class level namespace because this is the mess >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> As the sponsor for GermÃ¡n's project, I have some interest in this >> topic. StÃ©phane has said a couple times that it is wrong but has never >> taken time to explain his objections. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> We do not want to have class name resolution at the granularity of >> a class. >> > >>> >> > >>> And are you saying this because you think GermÃ¡n's implementation >> does this? >> > >>> >> > >>>> Why because it means that in the same package reading the code >> containing a class Foo could be a different one. >> > >> >> > >>>> Why because it means that in the same package, reading the code >> containing a class Foo could be a different one. >> > >> >> ^^^^^ >> > >> >> > >> Class level namespace import means that in a given class, a method >> accessing the variable Foo may end up pointing to another class Foo in a >> class in the same package importing another namespace. >> > > >> > > I still don't understand the definition. What do you mean by "another >> class Foo in a class." How can a class be in a class? Is Foo defined in two >> packages? Is the method on the class Foo? Should the name be resolved to >> the Foo in the package containing the method or to another Foo? Perhaps it >> would help if you named the sample classes, packages, and methods. >> > > >> > > Are you saying that if the namespace is allowed to be defined (or >> refined) at any level other than the package, then it is lumped into the >> bucket called "class level namespace import"? >> > > >> > >>> I don't understand your example. I don't know what you mean by >> "package reading the code." Are you describing a package that defines >> classes Foo and Bar, and a method in a class Bar that references the Foo in >> the same package? Are you providing this example because you think GermÃ¡n's >> implementation does not support this use case? >> > >> >> > >> No >> > >> I just say that changing binding of variables at the class level is >> not a good granularity. I do not want to have >> > >> >> > >> Object subclass: #NameOfSubclass >> > >> instanceVariableNames: '' >> > >> classVariableNames: '' >> > >> poolDictionaries: '' >> > >> category: 'Bob' >> > >>>>> environment: >> > > >> > > Is it your impression that GermÃ¡n's implementation requires this? If >> so, on what do you base that understanding? Have you looked at the code? >> > > >> > >>>> I'm saying that since years. >> > >>> >> > >>> I agree you have been saying that GermÃ¡n's implementation isn't >> what you want. I just don't understand what you don't like about it. >> > >> >> > >> because this is a class level import. >> > > >> > > I still don't know what you mean by "class level import" or why you >> think GermÃ¡n's implementation fits your definition. >> > > >> > >>> Name resolution of all variables (including Globals, of which >> Classes are a subset) should be part of a method compile. At the time a >> method is compiled, an 'environment' should be provided to the compiler >> that indicates how global name resolution should occur. >> > >> >> > >> Usually this is the class of the method. >> > > >> > > By "Usually" do you mean in pre-namespace Pharo? That is, the class >> is one of the factors that the compiler considers in doing name lookup? Is >> the "usual" approach good? Would it still be a factor considered by the >> compiler in an environment namespace regime? >> > > >> > >>> This is a tools issue and it should be possible to specify the >> default namespace environment for the method, for a method category, for a >> class, for a class category, for a package, and for the system as a whole. >> > >> >> > >> no this is a question of language design. >> > > >> > > Do you consider packages to be part of the language? I have always >> thought that one of the nice things about Smalltalk is how little of the >> development environment is actually part of the language. Being able to >> augment things through tools rather than changing the language seems to me >> to be a feature, not a bug. >> > > >> > >>> In addition, within a particular method it should be possible to >> explicitly reference a particular namespace environment, whether through >> syntax (dot or double colons) >> > >> >> > >> No we do not want to have that. >> > >> We want import to be specified at the border: i.e. during module >> import. Inside a module the world is flat and as a developer I do not want >> to know that this Point is from Core when that one is from MyCore. >> > > >> > > By "I do not want to know" do you mean "I do not want to be required >> to specify" or do you mean "I do not want anyone else to be able to find >> out"? If I want to know (say, to build tools), would that be okay? If I'm >> willing to let you remain ignorant of a global's source would you be >> willing to let me be enlightened? >> > > >> > >> If I want both, at the module import level I write >> > >> >> > >> Import: Point from: core as: CorePoint; >> > >> import: Point from: dev as: DevPoint; >> > > >> > > What object implements #'import:from:as:'? >> > > >> > >>> or through message sends (e.g., a Dictionary's #'at:' method). I >> prefer not to add new syntax and favor GemStone's implementation over that >> of VisualWorks. >> > >> >> > >> I dislike them both. >> > >> A module should provide a certain level of encapsulation, else >> naming convention is good enough. >> > >> Because else having namespace does not prevent you to have to >> declare that WA is not a namespace somebody else should use. >> > > >> > > You say that you "do not want to" allow code "to explicitly reference >> a particular namespace." Do you mean that arbitrary code should not be able >> to see a global that is not explicitly imported at package load time and >> that code should never be able to explicitly look at and manipulate >> namespaces. Really? This seems to me to be very much contrary to the >> existing spirit of reflection and introspection in Smalltalk and would make >> tools much more limited. I suspect that this is not really what you mean. >> > > >> > > I believe that a package should be allowed to provide a default >> environment, but I don't see the need to make it mandatory or exclusive. I >> believe that a class should be allowed to override the default environment, >> but I don't think it should be required. >> > > >> > > If a class is allowed (but not required) to override the default >> (provided by the package/module, for example), does that make it a "class >> level import" (and wrong, in your view)? >> > > >> > > What I understand from your statements so far is that GermÃ¡n's >> approach allows too much flexibility (namespace can be specified not just >> at the package level but also at the class level and explicitly in code). >> You do not want to allow anyone to experiment with different levels of >> granularity. Is that it? >> > > >> > > Thanks for engaging in the discussion. >> > > >> > > James Foster >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Philippe Back >> > Dramatic Performance Improvements >> > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: >> phil(a)highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: >> http://philippeback.be >> > >> > High Octane SPRL >> > rue cour Boisacq 101 >> > 1301 Bierges >> > Belgium >> >> >> > > > -- > Philippe Back > Dramatic Performance Improvements > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil(a)highoctane.be| Web: > http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 > 1301 Bierges > Belgium > -- GermÃ¡n Leiva LeivaGerman(a)gmail.com

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo and Namespaces

by GermÃ¡n Leiva

Hi Torsten, I'm not glad to say this but the *current* status of the project is ... dead. The project's intention was to be a space/frame to develop an agreed implementation of namespaces using *Environments* as a starting point; but that never happened. If Collin or anyone wants to share some thoughts about this implementation or just chitchat I'm fully available. Despite this - I share all the questions raised by James - If Stephane wants to share efforts to bring an implementation of namespaces/modules that satisfies his desires but that have some alignment with the fundamental ideas of *Environments* I'm all ears ('really big ones') - Now that I have my engineer's degree (Yeay!) and I have some time to research I want to do some experiments that uses these kind of namespaces regardless his integration with Pharo (stay tuned) - I will check Collin's namespace implementation too Cheers On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Since Colin opened a new thread on Squeak-dev about namespaces > together with an implementation for environments:y > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2012-June/164605.html > > I thought it would be good to ask on Pharo too about the state. > > What happened to the project from GermÃ¡n Leiva > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4I7fSVNX2A > > I know it is always a time issue - but what is the overall plan? > > Thx > T. > -- > Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir > belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de > > -- GermÃ¡n Leiva LeivaGerman(a)gmail.com

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 and Zodiac

by Dario Trussardi

Sven, i'm not expert about VM. > Dario, > > On 27 Jun 2012, at 15:29, Dario Trussardi wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> i work with Pharo1.4 Latest update: #14445 on MacBook. >> >> I'm interested to do TLS with Zodiac. >> >> I load the relative Zodiac 1.0 version >> >> In the http://zdc.stfx.eu/zodiac-paper.html i read: >> " Installation instructions can be found there. Note that Zodiac not only requires Smalltalk code but a VM plugin as well, some VMs include the plugin by default. " >> Now when i do https request : >> ZnEasy get: 'https://www.sandbox.paypal.com'. >> the system erase the error: >> PrimitiveFailed: primitive #primitiveSSLCreate in ZdcPluginSSLSession failed >> What i need to do ? >> I can download a Pharo image with the relative VM plugin installed ? >> Thanks for any consideration. >> Dario > > Download the latest CogVM from http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download > at the bottom of the page; that VM should already include the necessary plugin. > Ok, i download it for MAC and paste it into Pharo-1.4-one-click content. ( I do right ? ) After i run Pharo-1.4 and do the following Gofer command: > Then do > > Gofer it > squeaksource: 'Zodiac'; > package: 'Zodiac-Core'; > package: 'Zodiac-Tests'; > load. > > and for some more tests > > Gofer it > squeaksource: 'ZincHTTPComponents'; > package: 'Zinc-Zodiac'; > load. > > That should be all to get HTTPS working. > > Gofer it > squeaksource: 'Zodiac'; > package: 'Zodiac-Extra'; > load. > > Loads some other examples of TLS usage. > Now after it the system erase the same error: PrimitiveFailed: primitive #primitiveSSLCreate in ZdcPluginSSLSession failed I wrong something ? Thank, Dario > > HTH, > > Sven > > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > http://stfx.eu > Smalltalk is the Red Pill > > >

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 and Zodiac

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 27 Jun 2012, at 15:59, Henrik Sperre Johansen wrote: > Are Windows/Linux versions of the plugin supposed to be automatically built? > I seem to be getting the same primitive failures with the Cog-win.zip from the pharo site... Ouch, I only checked the Mac version, that was OK. Are you sure the plugin is missing ?

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Let's Get Pharo 1.4 Ready for the Summer Release!

by Esteban Lorenzano

yes... and I'm trying to release next 1.4 next week. of course I will work on the bugs, but it would be wonderful if someone else can take them :) (otherwise, I will release with as much as I can collect, but not all) Esteban On Jun 27, 2012, at 3:58 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > There are half a dozen 1.4 bug fixes in the inbox that need to be reviewed: > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?can=2&q=Milestone%3D1.4+is%3Aope… > > 4 of them are EASY (mostly one-liners or close): > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?can=2&q=Milestone%3D1.4+is%3Aope… > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Let-s-Get-Pharo-1-4-Ready-for-the-Summer-Release-tp46… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 and Zodiac

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

On 27.06.2012 15:54, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Dario Trussardi wrote >> i work with Pharo1.4 Latest update: #14445 on MacBook. >> >> I'm interested to do TLS with Zodiac. >> > Funny, literally 5 minutes ago I was thinking maybe Zodiac should be > included in 1.4... > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-1-4-and-Zodiac-tp4636907p4636911.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > Are Windows/Linux versions of the plugin supposed to be automatically built? I seem to be getting the same primitive failures with the Cog-win.zip from the pharo site... Cheers, Henry

June 27, 2012