June 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo and Namespaces

by Igor Stasenko

Late binding, yes. But please stop using "Global" word :) The Global word pins you to a little piece of dust floating in gazillion times bigger space. Think about it every time you think you found solution, which requires having some "global" state/functionality in your model. :) On 27 June 2012 19:47, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz> wrote: > On 27/06/12 18:05, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: >> >> >> GermÃ¡n Leiva wrote >>> >>> >>> OT: Late binding rocks! >>> >> >> Yes, and the latest binding would be to lookup at runtime. I have no idea >> what the performance hit would be, or if we would use all that power, but >> the idea is exciting :) > > > With proper caching at VM level, the performance overhead would be > negligible. > > Typically, when a class is accessed, something like PUSH_GLOBAL insn > is generated. One may change semantics of this insns to do a proper > message send back, effectively doing something like (for instance) > Â self class resolveGlobalByName: globalName > > This is very flexible and allows for very nice tricks. > > This can be further performance-optimized. One may use a sort of an inline > Â cache keeping a pair - function pointer to a function that > returns desired value and a "cached data". > Initially, the function would be initialized to a function that calls back > smalltalk code like the one above. However, the smalltalk > code __may__ decide that the resolution is "stable" (i.e., next time the > code runs, same class should be returned) and fill the cache. The standard > smalltalk resolve method then would look like > > resolveGlobalByName: globalName cache: cache > Â | v | > Â v := Smalltalk at: v > Â cache bindTo: v > > where the cache is Smalltalk reflection object representing this > kind-of-inline cache. > When properly JITed, the cost of global access would the same as > before (except of the very first one) - ideally just one memory > fetch. > > Cheers, Jan > > >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Pharo-and-Namespaces-tp4636635p4636978.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo and Namespaces

by Sean P. DeNigris

Jan Vrany-3 wrote > > With proper caching at VM level, the performance overhead would be > negligible. > Good to know. Thanks! -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-and-Namespaces-tp4636635p4637018.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 27, 2012

[Pharo-project] VM , modules, packages and plugins

by Igor Stasenko

Seeing another thread about "is XYZ plugin there or not" or "what may cause prim fail" i REALLY suggest that we should stop and think.. This plugin's usage logic is inherently flawed.. (or i would say outdated) What i would like to see one day is when i installing new code into image, it pops up a message: "Your VM missing an XYZ plugin for running this cool code, would you like to download and install it? Yes No " In case of Pharo, we should really start thinking about delivering quality grade solutions, not something which might work if you properly jump 2 times and whistle 7 times while faced North"... Look at what the practices which become common today in modern browsers, and OSes - they updating themselves without a notice and just asking you to restart it time to time. Why we cannot do the same? -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Do the VM's used on Jenkins include the SSL plugin ?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

+20 :) ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 4:48 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Do the VM's used on Jenkins include the SSL plugin ? We should really shift the paradigm of assuming that plugins is there towards having a nice error handling/presenting the reason why it fails, like in this case it should try and detect that plugin is not found/cannot be loaded and produce correct error message instead of "very informal" primitive failed message :)

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Do the VM's used on Jenkins include the SSL plugin ?

by Igor Stasenko

On 27 June 2012 23:53, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: > > On 27 Jun 2012, at 22:48, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> We should really shift the paradigm of assuming that plugins is there towards >> having a nice error handling/presenting the reason why it fails, like >> in this case >> it should try and detect that plugin is not found/cannot be loaded and >> produce correct error message >> instead of "very informal" Â primitive failed message :) > > If you tell me the proper way to detect if a plugin is present, I will add a better exception. > This is where we in one boat, Sven :) I added a new primitive SmalltalkImage>>loadModule: aModuleName which is step towards it, but don't expect it to be working outside a pharo vms, because nobody else cares about that, and everyone else seem fine living in sandbox, where everything is safe, sun always shines, and all plugins are in place :) So, we really need to deal with that.. I grow tired seeing "primfailed" walkback mails over and over again in different dusty corners of our backyard (which VM is) and then educated guessing like what could possibly cause it.. Wake up: system should tell us what caused it, we should stop guessing and wasting our precious time on false alarms! So, in case of ssl plugin you can clearly tell that if that prim failed, you know that there's something wrong with plugin, i.e. it fails to initialize or not exists: so even putting more informal message "there seem to be problem with SSL plugin (missing? no SSL library installed on your system? ) will clarify a lot and prevent from wasting our time explaining why that prim might fail or which VM has SSL and which might not. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Do the VM's used on Jenkins include the SSL plugin ?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 27 Jun 2012, at 22:48, Igor Stasenko wrote: > We should really shift the paradigm of assuming that plugins is there towards > having a nice error handling/presenting the reason why it fails, like > in this case > it should try and detect that plugin is not found/cannot be loaded and > produce correct error message > instead of "very informal" primitive failed message :) If you tell me the proper way to detect if a plugin is present, I will add a better exception.

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Do the VM's used on Jenkins include the SSL plugin ?

by Igor Stasenko

We should really shift the paradigm of assuming that plugins is there towards having a nice error handling/presenting the reason why it fails, like in this case it should try and detect that plugin is not found/cannot be loaded and produce correct error message instead of "very informal" primitive failed message :)

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Do the VM's used on Jenkins include the SSL plugin ?

by Guillermo Polito

Maybe zodiac can suggest you to have a look at that into the exception (according to the os you're using)? :) On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be>wrote: > > On 27 Jun 2012, at 20:05, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > It should be there out of the box. > > CHeck the version of VM you using > > > > Smalltalk vm version. > > > > If something is broken, then it should be fixed :) > > But i am not sure about that, because i am certainly not using SSL > > daily, so good testing > > and details about what working(or not) and where could help. > > If the plugin is there, like in the main VM download, then it will > probably a problem with the SSL libs. > > Something like > > sudo apt-get install libssl0.9.8:i386 > > Lib SSL will of course already be there, but you need the 32 bit version, > AFAIK. > > Sven >

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Do the VM's used on Jenkins include the SSL plugin ?

by Sean P. DeNigris

Sean P. DeNigris wrote > > I verified the primitive error on Windows XP with a 1.4 one-click I > downloaded this morning. Here's the VM report... I used the same VM on Ubuntu and got "PrimitiveFailed: primitive #primitiveSSLCreate in ZdcPluginSSLSession failed" error when evaluating "ZnClient new get: 'https://www.google.com'". No SSL plugin in the Linux folder of the one-click and VM module report doesn't list it... VM Built-in Modules ------------------- ADPCMCodecPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) AsynchFilePlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) B2DPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) BMPReadWriterPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) BitBltPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) CroquetPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) DSAPrims VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) DropPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) FFTPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) FileCopyPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) FilePlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) FloatArrayPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) FloatMathPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) IA32ABI VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) JPEGReadWriter2Plugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) JPEGReaderPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) JoystickTabletPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) Klatt VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) LargeIntegers v1.5 VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) LocalePlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) MIDIPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) Matrix2x3Plugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) MiscPrimitivePlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) Mpeg3Plugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) RePlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) SecurityPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) SerialPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) SocketPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) SoundCodecPrims VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) SoundPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) StarSqueakPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) SurfacePlugin Jun 22 2012 (i) UnixOSProcessPlugin VMConstruction-Plugins-OSProcessPlugin.oscog-eem.32 (i) ZipPlugin VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.160 (i) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Do-the-VM-s-used-on-Jenkins-include-the-SSL-plugin-tp… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 and Zodiac

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 27 Jun 2012, at 20:37, Igor Stasenko wrote: > Right, we got SSL only for mac and linux. > For windows, AFAIK someone told that it has never worked. I think if > you search mailing list archive for "SSL and windows" you will find it quickly. It does/should work, whether it works headless (whatever that means in Windows) I don't know. Sven

June 27, 2012