May 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Semantic Versioning

by Frank Shearar

Indeed, that's the case. You can rewrite _history_ in git, squashing commits, rebasing chains of commits, etc., but a single commit is effectively immutable because its identity is defined by the SHA-1 hash [1] of its contents: "altering" a commit means creating a new commit with a new identity. [1] Meaning of course that you CAN alter a commit without changing its identity: "simply" find a SHA-1 collision! frank On 15 May 2012 00:14, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> wrote: > I think you are referring to the the fact that there are ways to go through commits and remove sensitive data from them, however, unless I'm mistaken, the SHA of the commit gets changed when you modify it, so you may have "modified a commit" but you have done so by copying it to Â a new identity. The original commit with the origin SHA still exists and is accessible unless you take further steps to delete the specific commit, so in the end the commit _is_ immutable. > > Dale > > ----- Original Message ----- > | From: "Douglas Brebner" <squeaklists(a)fang.demon.co.uk> > | To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 3:07:00 PM > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Semantic Versioning > | > | On 14/05/2012 17:51, Dale Henrichs wrote: > | > | One of the appeals of git/github is that a git commit is immutable so > | all of the artifacts in a commit are guaranteed. > | Are you sure? It was my understanding that you can alter a git > | commit. Not advisable, but possible. > | >

May 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo on Stackexchange

by Damien Cassou

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/40717/pharo?referrer=gXC4FWspxSud… Just added a link to stackexchange on http://www.pharo-project.org/documentation/faq -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

May 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo on Stackexchange

by Norbert Hartl

Am 15.05.2012 um 10:38 schrieb Camillo Bruni: > With the dev mailing list slowly getting out of control ;) we should think of > means of communication with the masses! > > I created stackexchange proposal which needs YOUR support: > > http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/40717/pharo?referrer=gXC4FWspxSud… > > we need now: > - 60 Followers > - 40 questions with some answers! and a score of 10 upvotes! > > I think this will greatly improve the efficiency of our discussions! > - tagging of discussions > - better archive for questions > It's on. I ran out of questions already ;) Norbert

May 15, 2012

[Pharo-project] Pharo on Stackexchange

by Camillo Bruni

With the dev mailing list slowly getting out of control ;) we should think of means of communication with the masses! I created stackexchange proposal which needs YOUR support: http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/40717/pharo?referrer=gXC4FWspxSud… we need now: - 60 Followers - 40 questions with some answers! I think this will greatly improve the efficiency of our discussions! - tagging of discussions - better archive for questions go go go! cami

May 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding

by Max Leske

Thanks Camillo! On 15.05.2012, at 10:20, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 2012-05-15, at 10:14, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: > >> I think it is better to ask more questions on Stack Overflow (SO) >> instead of making yet another such site. On SO also to spread the voice >> about Pharo around! We are just too low in popularity on SO and >> isolating on yet another site will isolate us even more. > > maybe, though I think SO is rather messy :) > > for as long as google finds it, the place doesn't really matter. > > > Follow the proposal! > http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/40717/pharo?referrer=gXC4FWspxSud… > > > >> To be notified on new Smalltalk or Pharo question there, just click on >> each tag and subscribe to the RSS feed of that tag. >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> Dne 15. 05. 2012 09:45, piÅ¡e Max Leske: >>> What do you mean by that? I'm already using SO and the Pharo/ST question density is very low and there don't seem to be many of us asking questions about Pharo either on SO (?). I fear that questions might get lost in the stream of questions on other topics. But I'm certainly willing to give SO a try with Pharo. We just would need everybody else to do the same. >>> >>> Having our own Pharo site however, would be a better incentive to move away from the mailinglist I think. >>> >>> Max >>> >>> >>> On 15.05.2012, at 09:35, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> >>>> We can try to use stack overflow to see. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 15, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Max Leske wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> A random thought: how about a stackexchange site for smalltalk? Most of the things disussed on the list could probably go there and the list would once again be a quiet place for core stuff only. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes, we were discussing that on Friday.... the developres of Rascal are using it: http://www.rascal-mpl.org/ >>>>> >>>>>> We (or I) would have to propose a new site and we would need people from Pharo AND Squeak (and hopefully other dialects too) to come aboard to promote the site. The entire process of creation is explained here: http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> But would multi dialect not be very confusing? >>>>> >>>>> Marcus >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Janko MivÅ¡ek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> > >

May 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding

by Camillo Bruni

On 2012-05-15, at 10:14, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: > I think it is better to ask more questions on Stack Overflow (SO) > instead of making yet another such site. On SO also to spread the voice > about Pharo around! We are just too low in popularity on SO and > isolating on yet another site will isolate us even more. maybe, though I think SO is rather messy :) for as long as google finds it, the place doesn't really matter. Follow the proposal! http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/40717/pharo?referrer=gXC4FWspxSud… > To be notified on new Smalltalk or Pharo question there, just click on > each tag and subscribe to the RSS feed of that tag. > > Best regards > Janko > > Dne 15. 05. 2012 09:45, piÅ¡e Max Leske: >> What do you mean by that? I'm already using SO and the Pharo/ST question density is very low and there don't seem to be many of us asking questions about Pharo either on SO (?). I fear that questions might get lost in the stream of questions on other topics. But I'm certainly willing to give SO a try with Pharo. We just would need everybody else to do the same. >> >> Having our own Pharo site however, would be a better incentive to move away from the mailinglist I think. >> >> Max >> >> >> On 15.05.2012, at 09:35, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> We can try to use stack overflow to see. >>> >>> >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On May 15, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Max Leske wrote: >>>> >>>>> A random thought: how about a stackexchange site for smalltalk? Most of the things disussed on the list could probably go there and the list would once again be a quiet place for core stuff only. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, we were discussing that on Friday.... the developres of Rascal are using it: http://www.rascal-mpl.org/ >>>> >>>>> We (or I) would have to propose a new site and we would need people from Pharo AND Squeak (and hopefully other dialects too) to come aboard to promote the site. The entire process of creation is explained here: http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq >>>>> >>>> >>>> But would multi dialect not be very confusing? >>>> >>>> Marcus >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Aida/Web > Smalltalk Web Application Server > http://www.aidaweb.si >

May 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding

by Max Leske

On 15.05.2012, at 10:14, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: Good point. I'm not fully convinced however that it is true. In addition, I like Marcus' idea of it serving as an FAQ. Max > I think it is better to ask more questions on Stack Overflow (SO) > instead of making yet another such site. On SO also to spread the voice > about Pharo around! We are just too low in popularity on SO and > isolating on yet another site will isolate us even more. > > To be notified on new Smalltalk or Pharo question there, just click on > each tag and subscribe to the RSS feed of that tag. > > Best regards > Janko > > Dne 15. 05. 2012 09:45, piÅ¡e Max Leske: >> What do you mean by that? I'm already using SO and the Pharo/ST question density is very low and there don't seem to be many of us asking questions about Pharo either on SO (?). I fear that questions might get lost in the stream of questions on other topics. But I'm certainly willing to give SO a try with Pharo. We just would need everybody else to do the same. >> >> Having our own Pharo site however, would be a better incentive to move away from the mailinglist I think. >> >> Max >> >> >> On 15.05.2012, at 09:35, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> We can try to use stack overflow to see. >>> >>> >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On May 15, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Max Leske wrote: >>>> >>>>> A random thought: how about a stackexchange site for smalltalk? Most of the things disussed on the list could probably go there and the list would once again be a quiet place for core stuff only. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, we were discussing that on Friday.... the developres of Rascal are using it: http://www.rascal-mpl.org/ >>>> >>>>> We (or I) would have to propose a new site and we would need people from Pharo AND Squeak (and hopefully other dialects too) to come aboard to promote the site. The entire process of creation is explained here: http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq >>>>> >>>> >>>> But would multi dialect not be very confusing? >>>> >>>> Marcus >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Aida/Web > Smalltalk Web Application Server > http://www.aidaweb.si >

May 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

I think it is better to ask more questions on Stack Overflow (SO) instead of making yet another such site. On SO also to spread the voice about Pharo around! We are just too low in popularity on SO and isolating on yet another site will isolate us even more. To be notified on new Smalltalk or Pharo question there, just click on each tag and subscribe to the RSS feed of that tag. Best regards Janko Dne 15. 05. 2012 09:45, piÅ¡e Max Leske: > What do you mean by that? I'm already using SO and the Pharo/ST question density is very low and there don't seem to be many of us asking questions about Pharo either on SO (?). I fear that questions might get lost in the stream of questions on other topics. But I'm certainly willing to give SO a try with Pharo. We just would need everybody else to do the same. > > Having our own Pharo site however, would be a better incentive to move away from the mailinglist I think. > > Max > > > On 15.05.2012, at 09:35, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> We can try to use stack overflow to see. >> >> >> >> Stef >> >> >> >>> >>> On May 15, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Max Leske wrote: >>> >>>> A random thought: how about a stackexchange site for smalltalk? Most of the things disussed on the list could probably go there and the list would once again be a quiet place for core stuff only. >>>> >>> >>> Yes, we were discussing that on Friday.... the developres of Rascal are using it: http://www.rascal-mpl.org/ >>> >>>> We (or I) would have to propose a new site and we would need people from Pharo AND Squeak (and hopefully other dialects too) to come aboard to promote the site. The entire process of creation is explained here: http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq >>>> >>> >>> But would multi dialect not be very confusing? >>> >>> Marcus >>> >>> -- >>> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de >>> >>> >> >> > > -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

May 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding

by Marcus Denker

On May 15, 2012, at 9:35 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > We can try to use stack overflow to see. > Anyone can do that already... the idea was to install a *dedicated* one, like Rascal: http://ask.rascal-mpl.org/questions/ This is kind of an interactive and automatic FAQ... -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

May 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding

by Pavel Krivanek

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 4:43 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > it was a time, when were able to track all activities around squeak, >> > pharo and vm.. >> > >> > today the amount of updates, news and activities is just overwhelming.. >> > >> > a rusty locomotive, which once staying in backyard, repaired by Stef >> > and Marcus and now goes faster and faster :) >> > >> >> I think we have to improve the foreknowledge about what will happen, >> why it will happen, what it will mean, what are the related issues >> etc. >> I in most cases I have no clue about changes in package structure of >> the image that are being performed and that require changes in Pharo >> Kernel processing, initialization etc. As an example I can mention >> recent CodeImporter integration. >> >> I like the improvements rate but as the side effect it makes Pharo >> less attractive platform for serious development. > > > It depends. Pharo 2.0 is UNSTABLE. It says it everywhere. If you want to do > seriuous development you won't beusing Pharo 2.0, will you? ;) I talked about that few days ago with GermÃ¡n. The problem is not in using of unstable version. The problem is that it is very easy to stop to be in touch with Pharo now and within one year when the current unstable version will become stable the developers will face to very different system. That is one of the reason why GermÃ¡n choose Cuis for his current projects. Developers want simple predictable system. I do not think that the way out from this is to slow down. On the contrary. We simply have to do this era of a lot of big changes as short as possible ;-) -- Pavel >> >> >> -- Pavel >> >> > -- >> > Best regards, >> > Igor Stasenko. >> > >> > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

May 15, 2012