May 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding

by Marcus Denker

On May 16, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:29 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> It depends. Pharo 2.0 is UNSTABLE. It says it everywhere. If you want to do >>>> seriuous development you won't beusing Pharo 2.0, will you? ;) >>> >>> I talked about that few days ago with GermÃ¡n. The problem is not in >>> using of unstable version. The problem is that it is very easy to stop >>> to be in touch with Pharo now and within one year when the current >>> unstable version will become stable the developers will face to very >>> different system. That is one of the reason why GermÃ¡n choose Cuis for >>> his current projects. Developers want simple predictable system. >> >> Absolutely wonderful. So what people wants just the same. Ok but this is not Pharo. >> And and and again again again and again who is concerned by RPackage vs PackageInfo, >> systemNotifier vs. announcement, better monticello, better canvas, better Zincâ¦. >> I find that a totally false argument. > > I will quote GermÃ¡n (I hope he will not mind): "lot and lot of > things... Lot of new things each day. Part of that is that I started the project "tweet something about Pharo every day". some 15 months? ago... my idea was that we need to make public what happens because most people's perception was : Smalltak is dead. If people want I can stop. > Not time to stabilize nothing. Pharo 1.4 is frozen. We just fix bugs. The same with 1.3. Or even 1.2... > Is needed such acceleration? ... My point is, I'm trying to move a > business with Smalltalk and the acceleration of Pharo is well know by > me (from other companies) and sooner or later, impact in my job and > I'm a very LITTLE software house can't migrate my products all the > time." > You should *not* migrate. That's the idea. Just as one uses a (in the future unchanging Cuis, I am sorry to hear that), you can use an unchaning Pharo 1.4, or 1.3. Only when your project needs it, (because you actively with manpower develop it for a longer time), you can move to a new version. > We simply have to accept that some developers can have this feelings > and try to find a way how to limit it. I think that some official > Pharo blog (maybe written by Esteban) would be very helpful. Some kind > of not very extensive technical information source that will help > people to stay in touch with Pharo progress. That will explain what is > being changed in Pharo and why. I think that developers than will see > the changes like positive not as alien ones. > What I think is problematic: Peopler are against Change. But when somone nevertheless does it, build a great system, the same people that did not allow us to move will gladly abandon the old system for the new system. Cuis is a good example. According to the Philosophy of German, it should not exist. Maybe we should partition the *mailinglist* by stable and unstable? This way people using the stable don't see the noise and can focus... Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

May 16, 2012

[Pharo-project] Ward Cunningham interview

by Carlo

Hi I thought this was quite funny in an interview with Ward Cunningham on patterns: (full interview on Dr Dobbs http://www.drdobbs.com/architecture-and-design/240000393) "The job was really to take C++, which was a fairly static language, and show people how to write dynamic programs in a static language. That's what most of the patterns in that book were about. And in the process, patterns extended the life of C++ by a decade, which is not what I thought would happen. What I thought would happen is people, when they learned these patterns, would look at them and say, "Wow, these patterns are hard in C++ and they're easy in Smalltalk. So if I want to think in terms of these patterns, I might as well use a language where they're easily expressed." And extend the life of Smalltalk by a decade. But the opposite happened."

May 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding

by Pavel Krivanek

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:29 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> It depends. Pharo 2.0 is UNSTABLE. It says it everywhere. If you want to do >>> seriuous development you won't beusing Pharo 2.0, will you? ;) >> >> I talked about that few days ago with GermÃ¡n. The problem is not in >> using of unstable version. The problem is that it is very easy to stop >> to be in touch with Pharo now and within one year when the current >> unstable version will become stable the developers will face to very >> different system. That is one of the reason why GermÃ¡n choose Cuis for >> his current projects. Developers want simple predictable system. > > Absolutely wonderful. So what people wants just the same. Ok but this is not Pharo. > And and and again again again and again who is concerned by RPackage vs PackageInfo, > systemNotifier vs. announcement, better monticello, better canvas, better Zincâ¦. > I find that a totally false argument. I will quote GermÃ¡n (I hope he will not mind): "lot and lot of things... Lot of new things each day. Not time to stabilize nothing. Is needed such acceleration? ... My point is, I'm trying to move a business with Smalltalk and the acceleration of Pharo is well know by me (from other companies) and sooner or later, impact in my job and I'm a very LITTLE software house can't migrate my products all the time." We simply have to accept that some developers can have this feelings and try to find a way how to limit it. I think that some official Pharo blog (maybe written by Esteban) would be very helpful. Some kind of not very extensive technical information source that will help people to stay in touch with Pharo progress. That will explain what is being changed in Pharo and why. I think that developers than will see the changes like positive not as alien ones. -- Pavel >> I do not think that the way out from this is to slow down. On the >> contrary. We simply have to do this era of a lot of big changes as >> short as possible ;-) > >

May 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Smalltalkhub needs your quick in the ass :)

by Stefan Marr

Hi: On 15 May 2012, at 23:23, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi guys > > Nicolas released internally a new version of smalltalkhub and everyday he finds a good reason not to announce it. > So please do us a favorâ¦ create some projects and push your code there so that nicolas gets the feel > of a alive and kicking smalltalkhub :) Looks very nice. But betting 100% on AJAX is probably not a good idea for Google rankings. Google current entry looks like: """ SmalltalkHub www.smalltalkhub.com/ Loading. Please wait. New Session Configure Halos Profile Memory XHTML 0/0 ms. """ The cached screenshot also indicates that it wont be able to find any of the hosted projects. Reminds me a bit of the good old times with Flash... Best regards Stefan -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

May 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-consortium] We need your Pharo successes

by Brian Tabone

Stephane, Â Â I have a web application in early beta that I think might be worthy to add to this list. It's not yet a success story but with a little exposure I hope it will be. It still has plenty of rough edges but is about 95% functional with new features added weekly. I hope to go into a more public beta in June or July. Attached are the slides that talk about it more in depth. The site is www.todocommander.com . This is built in Seaside 3.0 in Pharo (1.3) and uses Magma as its database. Thanks for your consideration, -Brian Tabone ________________________________ From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> To: Pharo Development <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr>; A friendly place where any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr>; pharo-consortium(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-consortium] We need your Pharo successes Thanks Esteban for your cool slides: Â Â Â https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30774/lawsuit3slides.pdf Â Â Â https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30773/ibizlog3slides.pdf We want more! Stef

May 16, 2012

[Pharo-project] New Cuis mail list

by Juan Vuletich (mail lists)

Hi Folks, There's a new mail list for discussion about Cuis Smalltalk at http://www.jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org . Everybody is welcome. Language is English. In any case, if you want to talk about Cuis in Spanish, the 'official' place is squeakRos(a)gruposyahoo.com.ar . Cheers, Juan Vuletich

May 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: Implementors of...

by Igor Stasenko

i don't understand one thing: we have shout, and it parses the source code to highlight it correctly, which means that it knows where each keyword selector starts, where it ends.. still we cannot navigate the code just by clicking on selector part or to variable name. the most annoying is when you have nested sends.. and sender/implementors often fail to work.. On 16 May 2012 01:55, Chris Muller <asqueaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> In Nautilus, unlike old Browser it now works for multiple keywords, so >> things are improving. > > Mm, I think it was Dan Ingalls who made browsing senders/implementors > of multi-argument keyword messages in the code pane working since the > 1990's. > > It works with even gross effort -- in the attached picture I made a > sloppy selection of #objectWithOid:ifFound:ifAbsent and press > Command+M to get implementors in spite of all of the intermediate code > it knows what I wanted. > >> The main drawback from usability point of view: it is an implicit >> feature, invisible to newbie and other out of the context. > > I was using Squeak for more than 5 years when someone told me about it > -- Once discovered, it's great, productivity has been a bit higher > ever since. Â People should know about it if they don't already.. > > > >> Though in term of number of actions necessary to reach information, >> I'm not sure it's a clear win. >> There's a balance between simplicity and efficiency. >> Isn't it also a step backward in promotion of keyboard navigation over >> mouse navigation? >> >> Nicolas >> >>> >>> Open an entry to be sure it's not lost in the mailing list, and as soon as I can, I will see to add a setting for this :) >>> (right now I am more in a "bugs fix" phase that "add new features" one ^^) >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 12, 2012, at 11:47 AM, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: >>> >>>> Tried from Nautilus: >>>> >>>> Why when asking 'implementors of ' in the method menu, I only got the >>>> implementor of this method. >>>> >>>> Am I doing something wrong? >>>> >>>> Look like the browser need a lot of love. >>>> >>>> Hilaire >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr. Geo -- http://www.drgeo.eu >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

May 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] Smalltalkhub needs your quick in the ass :)

by Igor Stasenko

I wanted to migrate all my projects to smalltalk hub long ago. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

May 16, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Implementors of...

by Chris Muller

> In Nautilus, unlike old Browser it now works for multiple keywords, so > things are improving. Mm, I think it was Dan Ingalls who made browsing senders/implementors of multi-argument keyword messages in the code pane working since the 1990's. It works with even gross effort -- in the attached picture I made a sloppy selection of #objectWithOid:ifFound:ifAbsent and press Command+M to get implementors in spite of all of the intermediate code it knows what I wanted. > The main drawback from usability point of view: it is an implicit > feature, invisible to newbie and other out of the context. I was using Squeak for more than 5 years when someone told me about it -- Once discovered, it's great, productivity has been a bit higher ever since. People should know about it if they don't already.. > Though in term of number of actions necessary to reach information, > I'm not sure it's a clear win. > There's a balance between simplicity and efficiency. > Isn't it also a step backward in promotion of keyboard navigation over > mouse navigation? > > Nicolas > >> >> Open an entry to be sure it's not lost in the mailing list, and as soon as I can, I will see to add a setting for this :) >> (right now I am more in a "bugs fix" phase that "add new features" one ^^) >> >> Ben >> >> >> >> On May 12, 2012, at 11:47 AM, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: >> >>> Tried from Nautilus: >>> >>> Why when asking 'implementors of ' in the method menu, I only got the >>> implementor of this method. >>> >>> Am I doing something wrong? >>> >>> Look like the browser need a lot of love. >>> >>> Hilaire >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Geo -- http://www.drgeo.eu >>> >>> >> >> >

May 15, 2012

[Pharo-project] ANN: Moose apprentice course - June 2-3

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I am happy to announce that I will organize the first Moose apprentice public course. This is an introductory course on how to use the Moose analysis platform for putting humane assessment into practice. It is dedicated to software engineers, and the concepts covered include model navigation, querying techniques, code metrics, and visualizations. The course sessions are accompanied by hands-on exercises. Here is the official announcement: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/free-moose-apprentice-course-june-2-3… Cheers, Doru p.s. I am announcing this course here, because it can be interesting for the Smalltalk community (and Pharo in particular) in two ways: - learn how to use Moose in assessment scenarios, and - given that the course typically reaches non-Smalltalk programmers, it can be a good advertisement for Smalltalk (they actually get to program Smalltalk) -- www.tudorgirba.com "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, you will end up with a messy haircut."

May 15, 2012