April 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

On 04/23/2012 12:43 PM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > It doesn't really matter who started it. We all like to come over this. It can happen and the only thing making it worse is to talk about the fact that it happened. Yeah, I don't care either about who started it - I am just tired of it :). We are all the same family, the both communities overlap a lot. For example, what am I? Am I a Squeak-guy? Or a Pharo-guy? Or an Amber-guy? > Regarding the styled text editor it is highly bound to the changes that have been made to Cuis. So there is close to no chance to have a common codebase. It will be a fork anyway. And what I heard it will be a lot of work to adapt it anyway. Ok, then the "interesting aspect" is moot, or at least ... a different question - who wants to port? :) regards, GÃ¶ran

April 23, 2012

[Pharo-project] Techniques of disputes (was Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk)

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

Dne 23. 04. 2012 12:37, piÅ¡e Sven Van Caekenberghe: > > On 23 Apr 2012, at 12:25, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: > >> Dne 23. 04. 2012 12:08, piÅ¡e Sven Van Caekenberghe: >> >>> On 23 Apr 2012, at 11:43, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: >> >>>> Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? >> >>> Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread. >> >> No, it was Marcus, be fair please. > > No, he responded to Chris' mail, which was, let's say somewhat biased and suggestive in the context of the discussion. > > How would you react if I said, in a normal discussion about some technical or design aspect of Aida/Web that 'nobody should bother with an alternative web framework since we already have Seaside which is perfect' ? Well, this is prime example of how nowadays society in general ( not just in our community) we are not able to react even to a bit provocative observations with argument-only responses. Specially we as technical profession should be able to stay on argumented debate even in with emotions present. Anyone remember the techniques of disputes in European medieval universities? Then it was normal to be angry and emotional, but you should "ride you own anger" to get an energy for as better as possible disputing with your opponent, which mostly ends up with the best result. Much better than with isolated effort, without such dispute and without all the energy in emotions there. Emotions are therefore not to be suppressed but canalized towards the better end! > PS: (The qoute above is *not* what I think at all, about either Aida/Web or Seaside ;-) I know I know :) Best regards Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] ECompletion/Shout bug

by Esteban Lorenzano

oh, well... but it's also doable this way: guessTypeOf: aNumber | range | self configureSelectorsOnly. recurseCount > 10 ifTrue: [ ^ nil ]. recurseCount := recurseCount + 1. range := ranges at: aNumber. range isSelf ifTrue: [ ^theClass ]. range isSuper ifTrue: [ ^theClass superclass ]. range isConstant ifTrue: [ ^range asType ]. range isArgument ifTrue: [ ^self guessArgument: range ]. range isTemporaryVariable ifTrue: [ ^self guessTempVarClass: range ]. range isInstanceVariable ifTrue: [ ^self guessInstVarClass: range ]. range isClassVariable ifTrue: [ ^self guessClassVarClass: range ]. range isGlobal ifTrue: [ ^self guessGlobal: aNumber ]. which of course has it's drawbacks (like multiple returns, which I also was told it is usually a bad thing), but I think is much clearer... and the usual way to do case statements on smalltalk. btw... this implementation reveals a bug: there is no default behavior if none of the conditions is fulfilled. In that case, it will answer "self", and I think that's wrong (I think it should answer nil). Not sure, because never dug into this code before, but looks like :) On Apr 23, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > These are not really nested if, but rather a kind of caseOf: > implemented with elseif. > It's not to say that the style is ideal... > I did not read the code, and don't know what a range is, nor if it has > subclass specializations. > If so, maybe some actions could simply be dispatched to range. > > Nicolas > > Le 23 avril 2012 10:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >> he... is not related with the error, but... did you see this method? >> >> guessTypeOf: aNumber >> | range | >> self configureSelectorsOnly. >> recurseCount > 10 ifTrue: [ ^ nil ]. >> recurseCount := recurseCount + 1. >> range := ranges at: aNumber. >> ^ range isSelf >> ifTrue: [ theClass ] >> ifFalse: >> [ range isSuper >> ifTrue: [ theClass superclass ] >> ifFalse: >> [ range isConstant >> ifTrue: [ range asType ] >> ifFalse: >> [ range isArgument >> ifTrue: [ self guessArgument: range ] >> ifFalse: >> [ range isTemporaryVariable >> ifTrue: [ self guessTempVarClass: range ] >> ifFalse: >> [ range isInstanceVariable >> ifTrue: [ self guessInstVarClass: range ] >> ifFalse: >> [ range isClassVariable >> ifTrue: [ self guessClassVarClass: range ] >> ifFalse: [ range isGlobal ifTrue: [ self guessGlobal: aNumber ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] >> >> >> when I was younger, at informatics school, they told me that "3 nested ifs means bad design, with no doubt"... what about 7? >> >> >> On Apr 23, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >>> yes, I can reproduce this one... taking care of it now :) >>> >>> On Apr 23, 2012, at 10:11 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> Note that the bug shows up if you edit the code in the result of the implementors. >>>> Esteban can you reproduce the bug? >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Apr 23, 2012, at 9:18 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> I get a bug with OCompletion/Ecompletion >>>>> >>>>> TextEditor>>changeEmphasis >>>>> >>>>> try to type >>>>> >>>>> menuList nextPut: >>>>> >>>>> and you get a bug. >>>>> >>>>> Now in addition I do not understand what I see in the debugger: >>>>> >>>>> As you see model returns a debugger and the debugger title show FlatMessageListBrowser >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <Screen Shot 2012-04-23 at 9.08.45 AM.pdf> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>

April 23, 2012

[Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfGrease status?

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

Hi guys, I loaded ConfigurationOfGrease on 1.4 : Gofer new squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGrease'; load. Then (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGrease) load. returns #load does not understand. If I load: ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGrease) project lastVersion) load. then it loads Refactoring browser stuff too. What I expected is to load just base Grease, without tests, and certainly without RB , which in this case could even break something in Pharo tools? So, I propose that someone check and update this configuration to load what most of us expect and with #load class method included. Best regards Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] ECompletion/Shout bug

by Nicolas Cellier

These are not really nested if, but rather a kind of caseOf: implemented with elseif. It's not to say that the style is ideal... I did not read the code, and don't know what a range is, nor if it has subclass specializations. If so, maybe some actions could simply be dispatched to range. Nicolas Le 23 avril 2012 10:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > he... is not related with the error, but... did you see this method? > > guessTypeOf: aNumber > Â Â Â Â | range | > Â Â Â Â self configureSelectorsOnly. > Â Â Â Â recurseCount > 10 ifTrue: [ ^ nil ]. > Â Â Â Â recurseCount := recurseCount + 1. > Â Â Â Â range := ranges at: aNumber. > Â Â Â Â ^ range isSelf > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifTrue: [ theClass ] > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifFalse: > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â [ range isSuper > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifTrue: [ theClass superclass ] > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifFalse: > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â [ range isConstant > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifTrue: [ range asType ] > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifFalse: > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â [ range isArgument > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifTrue: [ self guessArgument: range ] > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifFalse: > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â [ range isTemporaryVariable > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifTrue: [ self guessTempVarClass: range ] > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifFalse: > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â [ range isInstanceVariable > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifTrue: [ self guessInstVarClass: range ] > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifFalse: > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â [ range isClassVariable > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifTrue: [ self guessClassVarClass: range ] > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ifFalse: [ range isGlobal ifTrue: [ self guessGlobal: aNumber ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] > > > when I was younger, at informatics school, they told me that "3 nested ifs means bad design, with no doubt"... what about 7? > > > On Apr 23, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > >> yes, I can reproduce this one... taking care of it now :) >> >> On Apr 23, 2012, at 10:11 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> Note that the bug shows up if you edit the code in the result of the implementors. >>> Esteban can you reproduce the bug? >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Apr 23, 2012, at 9:18 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I get a bug with OCompletion/Ecompletion >>>> >>>> TextEditor>>changeEmphasis >>>> >>>> try to type >>>> >>>> Â Â menuList nextPut: >>>> >>>> and you get a bug. >>>> >>>> Now in addition I do not understand what I see in the debugger: >>>> >>>> As you see model returns a debugger and the debugger title show FlatMessageListBrowser >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <Screen Shot 2012-04-23 at 9.08.45 AM.pdf> >>> >>> >> > >

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk

by Norbert Hartl

Am 23.04.2012 um 12:25 schrieb Janko MivÅ¡ek: > > > Dne 23. 04. 2012 12:08, piÅ¡e Sven Van Caekenberghe: > >> On 23 Apr 2012, at 11:43, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: > >>> Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? > >> Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread. > > No, it was Marcus, be fair please. But I agree with Marcus observations > here. > It doesn't really matter who started it. We all like to come over this. It can happen and the only thing making it worse is to talk about the fact that it happened. Regarding the styled text editor it is highly bound to the changes that have been made to Cuis. So there is close to no chance to have a common codebase. It will be a fork anyway. And what I heard it will be a lot of work to adapt it anyway. Norbert

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 23 Apr 2012, at 12:25, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: > Dne 23. 04. 2012 12:08, piÅ¡e Sven Van Caekenberghe: > >> On 23 Apr 2012, at 11:43, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: > >>> Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? > >> Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread. > > No, it was Marcus, be fair please. No, he responded to Chris' mail, which was, let's say somewhat biased and suggestive in the context of the discussion. How would you react if I said, in a normal discussion about some technical or design aspect of Aida/Web that 'nobody should bother with an alternative web framework since we already have Seaside which is perfect' ? Sven PS: (The qoute above is *not* what I think at all, about either Aida/Web or Seaside ;-)

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

Dne 23. 04. 2012 12:08, piÅ¡e Sven Van Caekenberghe: > On 23 Apr 2012, at 11:43, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: >> Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? > Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread. No, it was Marcus, be fair please. But I agree with Marcus observations here. Best regards Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi GÃ¶ran, On 23 Apr 2012, at 11:43, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: > Hi folks! > > Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? Yes, we should be past that, but just quickly skimming the thread, it seems as if Chris Muller was the first to include the Squeak vs Pharo discussion into this thread. > Now, the most interesting part is IMHO not discussed - how does the leadership of Pharo view this work? Is it meriting enough to be a blessed project for Pharo? > > Just curious because it does present an interesting case - an important part being primarily developed in *another* Smalltalk than Pharo (Cuis). Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any ideas or thoughts? I am not familiar with the subject, but it seems like a nice editor was written on top of a specific GUI framework on top of Cuis, a nice, clean Smalltalk. The question of porting seems like asking to convert an very GUI intensive app from the Microsoft Windows API to the Apple Cocoa API, or vice versa. How realistic can that be, without forking ? Sven

April 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Hi folks! Having skimmed this thread I must say that I am amazed how easy we fall into Squeak vs Pharo flamewars - haven't we gotten past that by now? Now, the most interesting part is IMHO not discussed - how does the leadership of Pharo view this work? Is it meriting enough to be a blessed project for Pharo? Just curious because it does present an interesting case - an important part being primarily developed in *another* Smalltalk than Pharo (Cuis). Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less optimal. Any ideas or thoughts? regards, GÃ¶ran

April 23, 2012