March 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo 1.4] Please test!

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Mar 30, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Scott Gibson wrote: > I am not sure of the plans for syntax highlighting in version 1.4 but when I go to Settings for Shout: Syntax Highlighting I am not given any controls to adjust the values. When I change try to make the changes programmatically (as in 1.3) I am given the error AnObsoleteSHStyleSetting. Is this functionality being removed or has it been replaced perhaps? No we should fix it :) Can you give us your script so that we have a look? Stef > Thanks! > Scott Gibson > > On Mar 30, 2012, at 3:26 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: > >> >> >> You can download the lastest 1.4 here for testing: >> >> https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo%201.4/job/Pharo%201.4/lastSucces… >> >> And a first version of the one-click here: >> >> https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo%20One%20Click%20image/lastSuccess… >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de >> >> > >

March 30, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] direct object manipulation

by phil＠highoctane.be

This is a chicken and egg problem. And a popularity contest game as well. Without one click, you'll piss people off fast and they'll go look elsewhere. Then you loose traction and that's bad. If I didn't had one click, I wouldn't have been learning as fast as I've been. Now I do have all pieces from different locations (even wanting to build the VM on my own). For contrast, look at another community I am part of: Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware. The system is topping SourceForge number of downloads, committers, and is a general success for intranets in companies. Of course, the paradigm isn't pure at all, but easy enough to have a lot of people contributing good stuff. We are at version 9 and I don't know any other package that is as feature rich when it comes to the web. We are talking more than a million lines of code here. Now, we are moving further than one click: hosting providers provide a full VM with everything installed for the stack. As of software developers, I do view 4 categories: - constructivists using established abstractions and not requiring further exposure to inner workings of the system. They deliver business value for common problems. - bridges understanding how the system works inside and are able to convey usage patterns to the constructivists. They also feed back real world usage problems to the next kind so that the system stays useful and not pie in the skyish. - abstractionists: able to come up with a powerful set of abstractions to solve a given problem in a general manner. Framework makers are here - technology makers: create core tech. Like a Cog-VM thing, CUDA, .. Try to pair types by jumping one strata and you are asking for trouble. Except for rare seasoned developers that are master of their craft and are able to display behavioral flexibility. But these are a rare breed and you won't get them for a long time anyway as these are seekers. </endofrant> 2012/3/30 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > On 30 March 2012 16:30, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > >>> I didn't, but wait. What does this intall? Why not to simply package > the libraries with the VM? > >> > >> because it is a third-party library. > >> To me, your proposal sounds similar to "why not simply package > >> Operating System libraries with the VM". > >> Because in this case you need cairo. But in case of OpenGL, you will > >> need opengl libs.. so "package everything" goes nowhere. > >> > >>> I tried once to use port/fink and I broke the internal of OSX, after > having downloaded 500 Mb. > >>> > >> i know that using external libs sometimes is painful. But this is like > >> that. And we're not alone with these problems. > >> I think there's many other software which have to deal with it. > >> > >> Another solution is to implement everything by own :) > > > > > > Well... The Cairo libraries are shipped with VisualWorks. When I install > VW, I've just say that I want Cairo, and everything works well. I have > played a bit with Cairo on VW and I am quite happy so far. > > I would not have played with it if I had to install the lib externally > with port/fink. > > I personally would not mind to have the virtual machine twice as big if > cairo is shipped with it. > > > > I know i know.. It is what 1-click images for.. where everything > stuffed together. > Now, did i mentioned already that i don't like it? > It is good for starters.. but bad for one big thing: you vaccinating > people from keeping an eye on updates > because they think they should use only 1-click package and nothing else > exists. > > And then when they reporting problems, usual answer is "it is already > fixed in recent version", > but they don't know how to download update, because all they know is > 1-click. > > Let's not turn developers into a housewives. You are developer, you > should know how software works, > and you should know how to download, install , upgrade and run it. > And if you don't, then learn, otherwise it is your fault or you just > picked wrong profession for your career. :) > > > I think it depends on what do you want to do in the mid-long term: > throwing away the squeak bitmap rendering and using Cairo for real? What > should be the external library, the squeak bitmap rendering or Cairo? > > > > I don't understand your question. > Cairo is one of the backends for Athens. And it quite possible happen, > won't be the best one. > If you don't want to install cairo library, you can try Athens without > cairo installed. > Then you should use AthensBalloonSurface instead of AthensCairoSurface. > > > Alexandre > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- Philippe Back "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil(a)highoctane.be| Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges

March 30, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Emergency evaluator pops up on red tests

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

ok I'm trying now :) On Mar 30, 2012, at 6:55 PM, Fabrizio Perin wrote: > Hi Stef, > I just tried to evaluate in a workspace as you said and i've got the same result. Also by executing the test in Nautilus with cmd-t i've got the same. > > Cheers, > fabrizio > > On Mar 30, 2012 3:30 PM, "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > did you try to run on single test manually > > Test debug:#l';l;k;lk;l2 > > Stef > > On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Fabrizio Perin wrote: > > > Hi, > > I loaded all my stuff in the latest moose based on 1.4. > > All the tests of my PetitPHPParser are red. When I click on one red method the emergency evaluator pops up. > > > > To reproduce it: > > 1- grab the latest MooseJee from the ci: > > http://ci.moosetechnology.org/job/moose-latest-dev/ > > > > 2- load the petit php parser: > > Gofer new > > squeaksource: 'PetitPHPParser'; > > package: 'ConfigurationOfPetitPHPParser'; > > load. > > (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfPetitPHPParser) perform: #loadDefault. > > > > 3- Run the tests of the php parser and click on any red method. > > > > How can I debug the problem? Any suggestions on how to proceed? > > > > Thanks, > > Fabrizio > > > >

March 30, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Voice reader support for Pharo

by S Krish

I am preffering currently to use Festival ( on linux) through OSProcess. Simple to push out sentences one by one.. wholeText splitToSentences do: [ :eaSentence | OSProcess command: 'echo "', eaSentence , '" | festival --tts'. ]. espeak is also good enough... but both of these currently I view them as initial level.. stuff.. need to figure out more.. On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr>wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm one of the newcomers registering recently on the mailing list. I'm > trying to see if a colleague of mine, blind, could use Pharo and for that > it would be necessary to be able to read aloud the contents of the Pharo > morphs to a screen reader such as Orca (and a brltty output). Has anybody > worked on that ? > > Thierry > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > >

March 30, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo 1.4] Please test!

by Ricardo Moran

Hi, I just tried the one-click in windows and it doesn't open the pharo-1.4.image by default, which is inconvenient since a newcomer wouldn't know where to look for. I also see a .bat file that does the right thing, but that's now what windows users usually do. So I think the CogVM.exe should be renamed to Pharo.exe and the .ini file should point to the image location, as in the 1.3 one click. Cheers, Richo On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 4:26 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > > You can download the lastest 1.4 here for testing: > > > https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo%201.4/job/Pharo%201.4/lastSucces… > > And a first version of the one-click here: > > > https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo%20One%20Click%20image/lastSuccess… > > > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > >

March 30, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] type-inference: it works!

by Francisco Garau

I think they are not comparable. They both try to do Type-Inference. But... what is a Type? Roel Typer works backwards. My TiEngine works forwards. Roel Typer works backwards because it starts analysing a method a finds a message send, lets say "anObject setup". It then asks the question, who implements the method #setup and if it finds 13 different classes, then those are the "Type" of the anObject. My TiEngine starts executing code without actually executing anything. It simulates execution making sure it goes through all the possible execution paths. That's is not always possible, so some compromise should be made. Reflection is the killer of any sort of static analysis. - Francisco On 30 March 2012 17:17, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > Ah okays. Have you made some comparison with the result of Roel Typer? > That would be an interesting point to compare with. > > cheers, > Alexandre > > > > On 30 Mar 2012, at 09:33, Francisco Garau wrote: > > No unit tests, sorry... > > Is not profiling, it's abstract intrepretation using types instead of > objects. > > - Francisco > > > On 30 Mar 2012, at 15:15, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > wrote: > > Hi Francisco, > > I've tried your implementation. It seems to work in Pharo 1.4. Do you have > unit test somewhere? > How does your profiler work? From what you have said in your email, it > seems you are profiling the execution. Is that true? > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 29 Mar 2012, at 18:47, Francisco Garau wrote: > > Load the attached ChangeSets: first Ti-Engine and then Ti-Support. > > You could then evaluate the below expressions -- watch the Transcript to > see which methods are being analysed. > > TiSystem current reset. > string := '3 + 4'. > Compiler new analyze: string in: nil to: nil notifying: nil ifFail: [1]. > "=> return {<SmallInteger>} " > > TiSystem current reset. > string := 'Display boundingBox'. > Compiler new analyze: string in: nil to: nil notifying: nil ifFail: [1]. > "=> return {<Rectangle origin: <Point x: <SmallInteger> y: <SmallInteger>> > corner: <Point x: <SmallInteger> y: <SmallInteger>>>}" > > TiSystem current explore. > > > Analysing 'Display boundingBox' shows a couple of surprises: > > 1. The code never goes through the #new method (it creates objects > using #basicNew and #@) > 2. Object code goes through Object>>value but knowing that the > implementation just answers self, it could be easily optimised. > > > I will try to package it more nicely under Monticello -- there are still a > few rough edges that need to be polished before getting it to the same > state it was in 2001... > > Cheers, > Francisco > <Ti-Engine.2.cs><Ti-Support.2.cs> > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > >

March 30, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] direct object manipulation

by Igor Stasenko

On 30 March 2012 16:30, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>> I didn't, but wait. What does this intall? Why not to simply package the libraries with the VM? >> >> because it is a third-party library. >> To me, your proposal sounds similar to "why not simply package >> Operating System libraries with the VM". >> Because in this case you need cairo. But in case of OpenGL, you will >> need opengl libs.. so "package everything" goes nowhere. >> >>> I tried once to use port/fink and I broke the internal of OSX, after having downloaded 500 Mb. >>> >> i know that using external libs sometimes is painful. But this is like >> that. And we're not alone with these problems. >> I think there's many other software which have to deal with it. >> >> Another solution is to implement everything by own :) > > > Well... The Cairo libraries are shipped with VisualWorks. When I install VW, I've just say that I want Cairo, and everything works well. I have played a bit with Cairo on VW and I am quite happy so far. > I would not have played with it if I had to install the lib externally with port/fink. > I personally would not mind to have the virtual machine twice as big if cairo is shipped with it. > I know i know.. It is what 1-click images for.. where everything stuffed together. Now, did i mentioned already that i don't like it? It is good for starters.. but bad for one big thing: you vaccinating people from keeping an eye on updates because they think they should use only 1-click package and nothing else exists. And then when they reporting problems, usual answer is "it is already fixed in recent version", but they don't know how to download update, because all they know is 1-click. Let's not turn developers into a housewives. You are developer, you should know how software works, and you should know how to download, install , upgrade and run it. And if you don't, then learn, otherwise it is your fault or you just picked wrong profession for your career. :) > I think it depends on what do you want to do in the mid-long term: throwing away the squeak bitmap rendering and using Cairo for real? What should be the external library, the squeak bitmap rendering or Cairo? > I don't understand your question. Cairo is one of the backends for Athens. And it quite possible happen, won't be the best one. If you don't want to install cairo library, you can try Athens without cairo installed. Then you should use AthensBalloonSurface instead of AthensCairoSurface. > Alexandre > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel Â http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 30, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo 1.4] Please test!

by Guillermo Polito

You can try Gofer it squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser'; load. And then (ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser project version: #stable) load: #( 'Core Tests' 'OCompletion Tests' ) , #( 'Core' 'OB-SUnitIntegration' 'OB-Shout' 'OCForOB'). or maybe (ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser project version: #stable) load. Guille On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Helene Bilbo < thereluctantprogrammer(a)fastmail.fm> wrote: > > Guillermo Polito wrote > > > > For OB, there is an stable version published with the metacello > > configuration. But it is not receiving a constant manteinance. > > > > That's good news. Where can i find it? > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-1-4-Please-test-tp4518277p4519342.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

March 30, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Emergency evaluator pops up on red tests

by Fabrizio Perin

Hi Stef, I just tried to evaluate in a workspace as you said and i've got the same result. Also by executing the test in Nautilus with cmd-t i've got the same. Cheers, fabrizio On Mar 30, 2012 3:30 PM, "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > did you try to run on single test manually > > Test debug:#l';l;k;lk;l2 > > Stef > > On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Fabrizio Perin wrote: > > > Hi, > > I loaded all my stuff in the latest moose based on 1.4. > > All the tests of my PetitPHPParser are red. When I click on one red > method the emergency evaluator pops up. > > > > To reproduce it: > > 1- grab the latest MooseJee from the ci: > > http://ci.moosetechnology.org/job/moose-latest-dev/ > > > > 2- load the petit php parser: > > Gofer new > > squeaksource: 'PetitPHPParser'; > > package: 'ConfigurationOfPetitPHPParser'; > > load. > > (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfPetitPHPParser) perform: #loadDefault. > > > > 3- Run the tests of the php parser and click on any red method. > > > > How can I debug the problem? Any suggestions on how to proceed? > > > > Thanks, > > Fabrizio > > > > >

March 30, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] type-inference: it works!

by Alexandre Bergel

Ah okays. Have you made some comparison with the result of Roel Typer? That would be an interesting point to compare with. cheers, Alexandre On 30 Mar 2012, at 09:33, Francisco Garau wrote: > No unit tests, sorry... > > Is not profiling, it's abstract intrepretation using types instead of objects. > > - Francisco > > > On 30 Mar 2012, at 15:15, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > >> Hi Francisco, >> >> I've tried your implementation. It seems to work in Pharo 1.4. Do you have unit test somewhere? >> How does your profiler work? From what you have said in your email, it seems you are profiling the execution. Is that true? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 29 Mar 2012, at 18:47, Francisco Garau wrote: >> >>> Load the attached ChangeSets: first Ti-Engine and then Ti-Support. >>> >>> You could then evaluate the below expressions -- watch the Transcript to see which methods are being analysed. >>> >>> TiSystem current reset. >>> string := '3 + 4'. >>> Compiler new analyze: string in: nil to: nil notifying: nil ifFail: [1]. >>> "=> return {<SmallInteger>} " >>> >>> TiSystem current reset. >>> string := 'Display boundingBox'. >>> Compiler new analyze: string in: nil to: nil notifying: nil ifFail: [1]. >>> "=> return {<Rectangle origin: <Point x: <SmallInteger> y: <SmallInteger>> corner: <Point x: <SmallInteger> y: <SmallInteger>>>}" >>> >>> TiSystem current explore. >>> >>> Analysing 'Display boundingBox' shows a couple of surprises: >>> The code never goes through the #new method (it creates objects using #basicNew and #@) >>> Object code goes through Object>>value but knowing that the implementation just answers self, it could be easily optimised. >>> >>> I will try to package it more nicely under Monticello -- there are still a few rough edges that need to be polished before getting it to the same state it was in 2001... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Francisco >>> <Ti-Engine.2.cs><Ti-Support.2.cs> >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

March 30, 2012