March 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Speech / KlattVoice

by Igor Stasenko

On 29 March 2012 17:19, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > Ok. Smalltalk is old as well... > > No problem binding but OSX isn't Windows nor Linux. > > You are pushing me back to Squeak here! > And in your turn, you pushing us to maintain this plugin. But i cannot even answer the original question in this topic.. because nobody knows.. Now, do you really think, it is good practice of taking responsibility on something, which you have no any clue about? I think not. So, if you want to use Klatt, you can always stick with years old VMs, years old images, years old operating systems, years old documentation(s) (if you can find it) where it is working and made for. But we have to move forward, and often it means leaving things behind. And of course, if there's a guy who can raise a hand and say: hey, i can do it, i can improve it, i can maintain it, we would be just happy. > > 2012/3/29 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> >> >> >> On Mar 29, 2012, at 4:36 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >> > Don't. It is useful when working with kids! >> > >> >> I think we should focus and clean up loose ends. Klatt is *old*. If you >> want voice output, write binding for >> the OS'es voice output. >> >> Â Â Â Â Marcus' >> >> -- >> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de >> >> > > > > -- > Philippe Back > "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" > > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil(a)highoctane.be | > Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: > http://philippeback.be > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 > 1301 Bierges > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] SciSmalltalk

by Serge Stinckwich

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 5:57 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > serge > > could you start a wiki page with all the current resources? > Like that we get a first impression. > It would be good to think about package names too (I do not really like DHB for example in the package name). ok i start a list here: https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/SciSmalltalk/wiki/Existing-Math-packages… Feel free to edit. Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

March 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] SciSmalltalk

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

I suspect a seamless bridge to R would prove much more useful. Lots of functionality for free. The Blue Book contributions could help shape the way we abstract R's features. ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of phil(a)highoctane.be [phil(a)highoctane.be] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:25 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] SciSmalltalk It would be just as nice to be able to integrate R through some kind of bridge. I am using R as well over here. And wxMaxima. What is interesting is that Blue book already has some interesting bits about distributions etc in the simulations part. Maybe we should already bring that material inside Pharo in a Stats-Bluebook package? Phil 2012/3/29 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com<mailto:alexandre.bergel@me.com>> For what I need R, Pharo can easily be better. Just an EyeSee pdf exporter will give me enough energy to build things on top of it. Alexandre Le 28 mars 2012 Ã 10:21, "Schwab,Wilhelm K" <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> a Ã©crit : > It would be great to stab the R beast through the heart. But it will be tough go given the richness of analyses that R can do. I have been tinkering with PLplot for a while, but there are some graphs for R is simply more capable, and the modeling and tests are undeniably powerful. > > Bill > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Alexandre Bergel [alexandre.bergel(a)me.com<mailto:alexandre.bergel@me.com>] > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:44 AM > To: Moose-related development > Cc: Pharo Development > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] SciSmalltalk > > Hi Serge! > > I welcome very much this initiative. > Something that I believe is important, is an pdf graph exporter (maybe based on EyeSee) and the various test distribution (e.g., CHI). The fact that these two are missing is exactly the reason why I use R and Numbers instead of Pharo. > > I sincerely believe that Pharo can be an alternative to R and Maple. A bit more is needed from our side however. > > Alexandre > > > On 27 Mar 2012, at 21:38, Serge Stinckwich wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> we already discuss about that in the moose and pharo mailing-list. >> Maybe this is too late, but please find a small proposal for gsoc 2012 below. >> >> ================================================================ >> >> Name: SciSmalltalk >> Level: Intermediate >> Possible mentor: Serge Stinckwich >> Possible second mentor: ? >> >> Description >> Smalltalk has at that time no equivalent to mathematical libraries >> like NumPy, SciPy (Python) or SciRuby (Ruby). >> The goal of the SciSmalltalk project is to develop an open-source >> library of mathematical for the Smalltalk programming language (MIT >> Licence). >> >> Technical Details >> The development of this project is to be done in Pharo Smalltalk, but >> the code should be portable to other Smalltalk flavors. >> Numerous Smalltalk projects provide already some basic functionalities >> (complex and quaternions extensions, random number generator, fuzzy >> algorithms, LAPACK linear algebra package, Didier Besset's numerical >> methods, ...). A first task will be to do an audit of all the existing >> projects that provide some mathematical stuff and build a Pharo >> Configuration to load them in a fresh Pharo Smalltalk image. After >> that, the student help by his/her mentors will decide what are the >> numeric algorithms to develop in priority. >> >> The student will need to know some basic numeric algorithms usually >> found in such libraries. >> Units tests should also be provided. >> >> Benefits to the Student >> The student will help the Smalltalk community in a very concrete way. >> The student will learn to design well-designed code with tests. >> >> Benefits to the Community >> Having a package providing more elaborate numeric libraries is really >> important to develop the use Smalltalk in new domains (robotics, high >> performance computing, computer vision, bio-computing, ...). The lack >> of numeric librairies hamper the use of the Smalltalk in a scientific >> context at the moment. An another goal of this project is to develop a >> community of people interested by these topic. >> >> Regards, >> -- >> Serge Stinckwich >> UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam >> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk >> http://doesnotunderstand.org/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch<mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > -- Philippe Back "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil(a)highoctane.be<mailto:phil@highoctane.be> | Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges

March 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] SciSmalltalk

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

It would indeed. Bringing R "inside the image" would be very helpful, and would lead to all kinds of abstractions, making life easier. I recently bought "The Art of R Programming" and have had time to only skim it. I will admit that the author's enthusiasm is a bit infectious. The R language might not be *quite* as bad as I think, though I still see it as syntax over substance run amok. At one point, I *really* tried to like Visual Basic - this was a long time ago. But every question got answered with "the SYNTAX for that is ..." - R seems much the same way. Very few users think in terms of objects, behavior and re-use. With bindings, we could change that (for us at least). Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Francisco Garau [francisco.garau(a)gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:19 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] SciSmalltalk There is a GSoC project to have R-bindings in Smalltalk. That would be just amazing! Very useful for a lot of applications (including finance) On 28 March 2012 15:21, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: It would be great to stab the R beast through the heart. But it will be tough go given the richness of analyses that R can do. I have been tinkering with PLplot for a while, but there are some graphs for R is simply more capable, and the modeling and tests are undeniably powerful. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Alexandre Bergel [alexandre.bergel(a)me.com<mailto:alexandre.bergel@me.com>] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:44 AM To: Moose-related development Cc: Pharo Development Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] SciSmalltalk Hi Serge! I welcome very much this initiative. Something that I believe is important, is an pdf graph exporter (maybe based on EyeSee) and the various test distribution (e.g., CHI). The fact that these two are missing is exactly the reason why I use R and Numbers instead of Pharo. I sincerely believe that Pharo can be an alternative to R and Maple. A bit more is needed from our side however. Alexandre On 27 Mar 2012, at 21:38, Serge Stinckwich wrote: > Dear all, > > we already discuss about that in the moose and pharo mailing-list. > Maybe this is too late, but please find a small proposal for gsoc 2012 below. > > ================================================================ > > Name: SciSmalltalk > Level: Intermediate > Possible mentor: Serge Stinckwich > Possible second mentor: ? > > Description > Smalltalk has at that time no equivalent to mathematical libraries > like NumPy, SciPy (Python) or SciRuby (Ruby). > The goal of the SciSmalltalk project is to develop an open-source > library of mathematical for the Smalltalk programming language (MIT > Licence). > > Technical Details > The development of this project is to be done in Pharo Smalltalk, but > the code should be portable to other Smalltalk flavors. > Numerous Smalltalk projects provide already some basic functionalities > (complex and quaternions extensions, random number generator, fuzzy > algorithms, LAPACK linear algebra package, Didier Besset's numerical > methods, ...). A first task will be to do an audit of all the existing > projects that provide some mathematical stuff and build a Pharo > Configuration to load them in a fresh Pharo Smalltalk image. After > that, the student help by his/her mentors will decide what are the > numeric algorithms to develop in priority. > > The student will need to know some basic numeric algorithms usually > found in such libraries. > Units tests should also be provided. > > Benefits to the Student > The student will help the Smalltalk community in a very concrete way. > The student will learn to design well-designed code with tests. > > Benefits to the Community > Having a package providing more elaborate numeric libraries is really > important to develop the use Smalltalk in new domains (robotics, high > performance computing, computer vision, bio-computing, ...). The lack > of numeric librairies hamper the use of the Smalltalk in a scientific > context at the moment. An another goal of this project is to develop a > community of people interested by these topic. > > Regards, > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://doesnotunderstand.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch<mailto:Moose-dev@iam.unibe.ch> > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

March 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] SciSmalltalk

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Alexandre, Fair enough, but that is *your* use. R has vast functionality, and replacing all of that would be a huge undertaking. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Alexandre Bergel [alexandre.bergel(a)me.com] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 12:16 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Cc: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] SciSmalltalk For what I need R, Pharo can easily be better. Just an EyeSee pdf exporter will give me enough energy to build things on top of it. Alexandre Le 28 mars 2012 Ã 10:21, "Schwab,Wilhelm K" <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> a Ã©crit : > It would be great to stab the R beast through the heart. But it will be tough go given the richness of analyses that R can do. I have been tinkering with PLplot for a while, but there are some graphs for R is simply more capable, and the modeling and tests are undeniably powerful. > > Bill > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Alexandre Bergel [alexandre.bergel(a)me.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:44 AM > To: Moose-related development > Cc: Pharo Development > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] SciSmalltalk > > Hi Serge! > > I welcome very much this initiative. > Something that I believe is important, is an pdf graph exporter (maybe based on EyeSee) and the various test distribution (e.g., CHI). The fact that these two are missing is exactly the reason why I use R and Numbers instead of Pharo. > > I sincerely believe that Pharo can be an alternative to R and Maple. A bit more is needed from our side however. > > Alexandre > > > On 27 Mar 2012, at 21:38, Serge Stinckwich wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> we already discuss about that in the moose and pharo mailing-list. >> Maybe this is too late, but please find a small proposal for gsoc 2012 below. >> >> ================================================================ >> >> Name: SciSmalltalk >> Level: Intermediate >> Possible mentor: Serge Stinckwich >> Possible second mentor: ? >> >> Description >> Smalltalk has at that time no equivalent to mathematical libraries >> like NumPy, SciPy (Python) or SciRuby (Ruby). >> The goal of the SciSmalltalk project is to develop an open-source >> library of mathematical for the Smalltalk programming language (MIT >> Licence). >> >> Technical Details >> The development of this project is to be done in Pharo Smalltalk, but >> the code should be portable to other Smalltalk flavors. >> Numerous Smalltalk projects provide already some basic functionalities >> (complex and quaternions extensions, random number generator, fuzzy >> algorithms, LAPACK linear algebra package, Didier Besset's numerical >> methods, ...). A first task will be to do an audit of all the existing >> projects that provide some mathematical stuff and build a Pharo >> Configuration to load them in a fresh Pharo Smalltalk image. After >> that, the student help by his/her mentors will decide what are the >> numeric algorithms to develop in priority. >> >> The student will need to know some basic numeric algorithms usually >> found in such libraries. >> Units tests should also be provided. >> >> Benefits to the Student >> The student will help the Smalltalk community in a very concrete way. >> The student will learn to design well-designed code with tests. >> >> Benefits to the Community >> Having a package providing more elaborate numeric libraries is really >> important to develop the use Smalltalk in new domains (robotics, high >> performance computing, computer vision, bio-computing, ...). The lack >> of numeric librairies hamper the use of the Smalltalk in a scientific >> context at the moment. An another goal of this project is to develop a >> community of people interested by these topic. >> >> Regards, >> -- >> Serge Stinckwich >> UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam >> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk >> http://doesnotunderstand.org/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > >

March 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Speech / KlattVoice

by phil＠highoctane.be

Ok. Smalltalk is old as well... No problem binding but OSX isn't Windows nor Linux. You are pushing me back to Squeak here! 2012/3/29 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > > On Mar 29, 2012, at 4:36 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > Don't. It is useful when working with kids! > > > > I think we should focus and clean up loose ends. Klatt is *old*. If you > want voice output, write binding for > the OS'es voice output. > > Marcus' > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > > -- Philippe Back "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil(a)highoctane.be| Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges

March 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Speech / KlattVoice

by Marcus Denker

On Mar 29, 2012, at 4:36 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Don't. It is useful when working with kids! > I think we should focus and clean up loose ends. Klatt is *old*. If you want voice output, write binding for the OS'es voice output. Marcus' -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

March 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Speech / KlattVoice

by phil＠highoctane.be

Don't. It is useful when working with kids! 2012/3/29 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > > On Mar 29, 2012, at 4:29 PM, S Krish wrote: > > > Anyone can point out to details on improving the voices/ Speaker > #examples category.. > > > > I have attempted to tinker with the attributes on the examples.. but the > sound is not any great.. any pointer to make it sound like "Siri" on > iPhone..? > > > Millions of R&D money? Klatt is really really old... it's not state of the > art at all. Of course, all the technology that is really good is not free. > > IMHO we should remove the Klatt plugin from the VM. > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > > -- Philippe Back "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil(a)highoctane.be| Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges

March 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Speech / KlattVoice

by phil＠highoctane.be

How did you got that working with Pharo? I loaded Speech but it was full of problems on my 1.3 Wrong package maybe. Philippe 2012/3/29 S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar(a)gmail.com> > Anyone can point out to details on improving the voices/ Speaker #examples > category.. > > I have attempted to tinker with the attributes on the examples.. but the > sound is not any great.. any pointer to make it sound like "Siri" on > iPhone..? > -- Philippe Back "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil(a)highoctane.be| Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges

March 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Speech / KlattVoice

by Marcus Denker

On Mar 29, 2012, at 4:29 PM, S Krish wrote: > Anyone can point out to details on improving the voices/ Speaker #examples category.. > > I have attempted to tinker with the attributes on the examples.. but the sound is not any great.. any pointer to make it sound like "Siri" on iPhone..? Millions of R&D money? Klatt is really really old... it's not state of the art at all. Of course, all the technology that is really good is not free. IMHO we should remove the Klatt plugin from the VM. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

March 29, 2012