February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Pharo user vs. Pharo developer (was Nearly limitless Image)

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

S, Marcus Denker piÅ¡e: > Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: >> I also support the image as a sole persistence idea and I'm actually >> using it for years on VisualWorks. >> >> For Pharo there seems everyone is avoiding this idea, mostly because of >> image corruption fear. Well, we need to improve the robustness of Pharo >> image and VM then this fear will vanish. It is obviously doable, if VW >> is reliable enough, why not once Pharo? > Someone needs to start fixing and improving. Why not, for example, you? I'm a Pharo user, not Pharo developer. Developer of Pharo itself, that is. I'm just using it as a tool to contribute on other fields like on the web. Therefore it is not to be expected to know Pharo internals enough to contribute directly, but I can report wishes, errors and help to someone more knowledgeable to fix them. And that's what I'm actually doing for improving Pharo reliability, ask Igor and Stef. About issue tracker: it is not a duty of us Pharo users to open and track issues there, IMHO. This is a tool for Pharo developers, so I propose that one of you "harvest" them from mailing lists and open issues. You know better how to open an issue than me. I can be then invited to describe the problem better and help with you solving it. And yes, this distinction between Pharo user and developer is necessary part of Pharo becoming more professional and business friendly. Best regards Janko > > Here is a link: > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list > > It's much better than talking. > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > > -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

Feb. 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I was not criticizing your solution. I was actually asking for help :). I would like to get a text morph in the tree and have it scale both horizontally to fill the available space, and vertically to accommodate the entire text. I show the example with the GeneralScrollPane because I managed to make it work there (with the help of Gary), but I cannot do it on MorphTreeMorph. So, if you, or someone else, have ideas I would be happy to hear them. Cheers, Doru On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 10:09 AM, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Sure.. that is fine.. for the use case you state > > Mine is quick n dirty hack to what I wanted: > > but my use case is I do wish to have more of these sources partially visible > through the vertical pane. so I restrain it to max of 210.. and width of 600 > to be able to to throw up another pane next to it.. for grouping methods I > am interested in .. to view it more closely.. > > > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Thanks for the explanation. >> >> I took a look. calculateExtent is triggered when you create the TextMorph. >> This is nice, but I am interested in getting the TextMorph to always expand >> to fill the width of the surrounding element, and to expand vertically >> according to the text :). >> >> Here is a variation of what I am thinking about with just a simple list of >> morphs within a GeneralScrollPane: >> https://gist.github.com/1930477 >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On 28 Feb 2012, at 03:22, Krishsmalltalk wrote: >> >> > It does have the code to calculateTextExtent. You can modify it the way >> > you want. >> > >> > The height is defaulted to a max 210 and fixed 600. But on expand it >> > goes to max ht of 600 >> > >> > >> > Modify the logic in that method as you want it to >> > >> > >> > On Feb 28, 2012, at 2:42 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I gave it a try. I am not necessarily looking for the looks as for the >> >> solution to make the text editor within the tree span horizontally and >> >> vertically with the size of the method. Unfortunately, this does not work in >> >> this example, either. >> >> >> >> Does anyone have ideas of how to make it work? :) >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Doru >> >> >> >> >> >> On 27 Feb 2012, at 21:43, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> >> >>> MorphicViewNewPackageBrowser new packageNames: #('UIManager') ; open >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> But it does not look that nice :) >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Feb 27, 2012, at 6:42 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> this looks really nice. >> >>>> I would really like to see if we cannot include a version so that >> >>>> people can browse change set and other code like that. >> >>>> I'm really happy to see that the work done by alain and ben around >> >>>> treeMorph pays off that well. >> >>>> >> >>>> Stef >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> Can take the latest of the package.. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> PackageTree-Browser-Experiment >> >>>>> >> >>>>> * Find class added and a crude/ workable expand for text morph.. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> As stated in the comments: will require a hack in Pharo 1.4 for now. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Will work towards integrating TabbedPane with TWM/ this too as an >> >>>>> addon with more complete features month ahead. >> >>>>> <Pharo_CodeBrowser02.JPG> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> >> >> "One cannot do more than one can do." >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Sometimes the best solution is not the best solution." >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Feb. 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Nearly limitless Image: revisited.

by Marcus Denker

On Feb 29, 2012, at 12:59 PM, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: > Hi Ted, > > I also support the image as a sole persistence idea and I'm actually > using it for years on VisualWorks. > > For Pharo there seems everyone is avoiding this idea, mostly because of > image corruption fear. Well, we need to improve the robustness of Pharo > image and VM then this fear will vanish. It is obviously doable, if VW > is reliable enough, why not once Pharo? > Someone needs to start fixing and improving. Why not, for example, you? Here is a link: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list It's much better than talking. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Nearly limitless Image: revisited.

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

Hi Ted, I also support the image as a sole persistence idea and I'm actually using it for years on VisualWorks. For Pharo there seems everyone is avoiding this idea, mostly because of image corruption fear. Well, we need to improve the robustness of Pharo image and VM then this fear will vanish. It is obviously doable, if VW is reliable enough, why not once Pharo? Best regards Janko S, ted f.a. van gaalen piÅ¡e: > "I first used image persistence but the image grow too large.." > thanks for reminding, Norbert. > > > Hi all, > > perhaps you'll find me an idiot, I don't care. > (i know that I am: (class SelfReflection :o) ) > > Nevertheless, some brainstorming here. > > I've brought this up before, but it seems nobody is interested in this > topic.. why? > > it's about image size. > > Currently, Pharo 1.3-13315 at my 4 Gigabyte Debian amd64 Linux machine > reports > > memory 75,392,160 bytes > old 61,370,144 bytes (81.4%) > young 2,169,692 bytes (2.9000000000000004%) > used 63,539,836 bytes (84.30000000000001%) > free 11,852,324 bytes (15.700000000000001%) > > (nothing peculiar added, just the Seaside package and a few classes of > my own. ) > > So, if i understand this well I have only 11,8 megabytes to play with? > > To begin with: why is only 75 megabyte available in Pharo (or Squeak as > well) > when there is 4 gigabyte physical memory available on my machine?? > > Anyway, IMHO this very limited storage violates the Smalltalk-all-in-one > image ideal, > because with this limited storage one cannot avoid the use of external > data stores > like databases (of course, exception: there always will be import an > export of objects/data) > > External data storage is complex, unreliable and should be something of > the past. > I'd suggest: don't waste time with this. rather improve the Smalltalk > internal data handling. > > I wish to have a very large image so e.q. I can have an entire > company's administration > (client and accounting data etc.) alive in it. > I want to use Collections and descendants, not external databases. > So, everything within the image. > > The beautiful (although opinions may vary) principle > of a Smalltalk environment is Image Persistence, isn't it? > > IMHO this requires: > - virtually unlimited image memory size. > -no external databases like e.g. Mongo or DB2 whatever. > -no persistent external storage at all. > > -You should see the (currently still) faster database performance as a > challenge > to improve the Collection and other related data handling classes > > -You would have to completely restructure the architecture. > or just extend the address width: 64 bits? > > what about an image of virtually unlimited size > gigabytes so > > (for now, if it goes beyond the physical memory size (say 32 GB?) > one could use a VM that works with virtual storage based VM > Virtual storage was first in use successfully with IBM mainframes > in the 1970s (and still is) ) > > on the other hand, I estimate holographic? physical memory > going in Terabytes is about to be available in 5-10 years from now. > blindingly fast, compared with today's standards. > > So, one has about 5 years to come up with such a system :o) > if one does, Smalltalk is ahead of everything then.. > > Don't laugh. One didn't even dream of 4 gigabytes of memory > during the Commodore 64 era. 1982-1994. > > In short: what would have to be changed to enable this? > > Some thoughts and speculations? > Anyone for tennis? > > Thanks > Ted > > > > > > -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

Feb. 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] Who is using Fuel?

by Norbert Hartl

Am 29.02.2012 um 09:10 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe: > Norbert, > > On 28 Feb 2012, at 21:30, Norbert Hartl wrote: > >> The only limit that I tested is a maximum of threads of 1100 or 1400, can't remember right now. The image is stuck then. > > I know we are way off topic, but are you sure you were not running into some OS limit (max open files/sockets which is often 1024 at the user level) ? > > You can inspect the limits by doing: > > $ ulimit -Hn > $ ulimit -Sn > > for the hard and soft limits I know, thanks. But my test was as simple as 14000 timesRepeat: [ [ (Delay forSeconds: 60) wait ] forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority ] I tested it again and it works. If I open the process browser and turn auto update on then it deadlocks. I made this "mistake" the last time, too. Otherwise with the above test I could start more than 25000 threads without problem. Norbert

Feb. 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] VNC client

by Norbert Hartl

Jan, I tried chicken of the vnc and basically it works. The "chicken" version (is newer) that is based on chicken of the vnc does not work. I use Mac as client to connect to a linux server machine (well it's pharo). Do you have a different setup? However how do you map the keys? I cannot use alt, cmd, etc. Norbert Am 28.02.2012 um 14:49 schrieb Jan van de Sandt: > I use Chicken of the VNC > > > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Milan Mimica <milan.mimica(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I use remmina. > > > On 28 February 2012 14:06, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > I wonder what vnc client do you use if you use pharo + RFB? I had a running via macports. Now that I'm about to switch to homebrew I have problems finding a working one. Be it in brew or app store, etc. > > thanks, > > Norbert > > > > -- > Milan Mimica > http://sparklet.sf.net >

Feb. 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] SmalltalkHub news (was: It would be me first)

by GermÃ¡n Arduino

Hi Nico: First question that comes to my mind, why Riak and not Gemstone? Cheers. 2012/2/28 Nicolas Petton <petton.nicolas(a)gmail.com> > Hi all! > > As GÃ¶ran said, he recently joined our forces on SmalltalkHub. We're used > to working together and he has great Riak knowledge. He's mainly working on > the Riak-backed Monticello repository. > > Currently, timelines, users, projects, settings, user dashboard and > profile are ported for Riak. > > As soon as the Riak Monticello repository will be ready, we'll release and > put it online. > > That means taht the issue tracker and project statistics probably won't be > there at first, but as Stef said to me several times already, release > release early, release often, it doesn't have to be perfect from the start > :) > > So I'm gonna listen to Stef, and make it publicly available. > > On 28/02/12 10:13, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: > >> The latest stack looks very promising though - and the reason I can >> describe it is because I am trying to help out a bit with it - though >> haven't had much time yet. >> >> The client is a full Amber app built with Bootstrap 2 from Twitter. It >> is very nice looking and responsive. It communicates with the backend >> using plain jQuery REST. >> >> The server side is built with Seaside-REST which then uses a domain >> model described with Magritte 3 (Nicolas just switched) which is >> persisted using RiakDocument + Phriak for persistency. An interesting >> twist here is that Magritte is being used to produce the JSON >> RiakDocuments to store. >> >> End result? A very strong and interesting architecture and the >> performance looks outstanding so far. Riak also buys us really strong >> robustness since it has redundancy built in. >> > > I couldn't have said it better, thanks GÃ¶ran :) > > Cheers, > Nico > > > -- > Nicolas Petton > http://nicolas-petton.fr > > -- ============================================ GermÃ¡n S. Arduino <gsa @ arsol.net> Twitter: garduino Arduino Software http://www.arduinosoftware.com PasswordsPro http://www.passwordspro.com greensecure.blogspot.com germanarduino.blogpost.com ============================================

Feb. 29, 2012

[Pharo-project] [update 1.4] #14367, #14368

by Marcus Denker

14367 ----- Issue 5415: Select the first entry in the InspectorThanks to camillobruni http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5415 14368 ----- Issue 5421: Deprecate BlockContext http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5421 Issue 5420: Remove MidiPrimTester http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5420 Issue 5419: clean changeset conflict checker http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5419 Issue 5411: halt: deprecated in Pharo 1.4 ... bring it back http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5411 -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] It would be me first

by Geert Claes

GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote > > SmalltalkHub has gone through some technical evolution which has taken > some time. Especially various persistence schemes were tested and most of > them ended up problematic, Nicolas tested a LOT of variations I think. > > The latest stack looks very promising though - and the reason I can > describe it is because I am trying to help out a bit with it - though > haven't had much time yet. > I just hadn't heard for a while and was interested :) GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote > > The client is a full Amber app built with Bootstrap 2 from Twitter. It is > very nice looking and responsive. It communicates with the backend using > plain jQuery REST. > >From a UX and UI point of view, I am very very interested in the Amber/Bootstrap approach as UI was something I found Smalltalk trailing a bit. GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote > > The server side is built with Seaside-REST which then uses a domain model > described with Magritte 3 (Nicolas just switched) which is persisted using > RiakDocument + Phriak for persistency. An interesting > twist here is that Magritte is being used to produce the JSON > RiakDocuments to store. > To promote Smalltalk to get more real-world business use all the work that has gone into this could be used to put together some robustness, scalability best practices I assume? Anyhow, good stuff!! Glad to hear things are moving forward :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/It-would-be-me-first-tp4365015p4431095.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Feb. 29, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] It would be me first

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Hi Norbert! On 02/28/2012 10:38 AM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > Sounds good. I work with Seaside-Rest and Magritte3 on a daily base. This time with MongoDB using MongoTalk. So I'm quite confident that the choice of the stack is superb :) I decided to use MongoDB because it did not want to be content agnostic. My client approach however is the opposite using seaside with jquery extension. Using amber with Rest style access is surely the better approach for a site like SmallHub. > What puzzles me is what RiakDocument is doing in this mix. Is it published somewhere? It is in the Phriak repo. It is nothing big. regards, GÃ¶ran PS. Tried numerous times to accept your linkedIn invitation but it always failed. Eventual consistency strikes! :)

Feb. 29, 2012