February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] A challenge for all who cares

by Igor Stasenko

On 20 February 2012 21:18, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 20 February 2012 19:41, Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com> wrote: >> Am 20.02.2012 10:22, schrieb Edgar J. De Cleene: >> >> Yesterday in a response to Craig I said have a Cuis with a wiki on top and >> this .image is 5 mb and run on a âmodernâ G4 400 mhz PowerMac. >> >> Thatâs is a beauty and the power of Cuis, thanks Juan for your reduced image >> of 2 mb >> >> >> Looks nice. >> >> World menu -> appearance -> set desktop color -> Error >> >> What i - never ever - understand is, why - when Smalltalk is a reflective >> language and there are so mighty tools - like Moose - out there, able to >> search the whole codebase for possible occurrences of "message not >> understood"????? > > This is just a trivial application of the solution to the Halting > Problem (left as an exercise for the reader). > I wonder, what kind of language solves that problem better than smalltalk does? Apparently compilers can complain about using wrong type/name.. but they cannot complain about null pointer(s).. they usually crash & bail to OS :) > Or: if you want to avoid MNU, don't use a dynamically typed language. > > frank > >> This is no personal quality problem, this is a methodical problem. In the >> whole Pharo team. "Wrong development process!" >> >> Please, again: "Develop the development process!" >> >> Have fun, Guido Stepken > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] A challenge for all who cares

by Frank Shearar

On 20 February 2012 19:59, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 20 February 2012 20:41, Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com> wrote: >> Am 20.02.2012 10:22, schrieb Edgar J. De Cleene: >> >> Yesterday in a response to Craig I said have a Cuis with a wiki on top and >> this .image is 5 mb and run on a âmodernâ G4 400 mhz PowerMac. >> >> Thatâs is a beauty and the power of Cuis, thanks Juan for your reduced image >> of 2 mb >> >> >> Looks nice. >> >> World menu -> appearance -> set desktop color -> Error >> >> What i - never ever - understand is, why - when Smalltalk is a reflective >> language and there are so mighty tools - like Moose - out there, able to >> search the whole codebase for possible occurrences of "message not >> understood"????? > > If you would learn smalltalk, you would understand that there's no such tool. > It could search, and even may found some, but still it impossible to find all. > This is the main difference between late-bound dynamic language and > static, compiled one. > > To deal with stupid errors like that, smalltalk uses tests with good > code coverage. > But that means that someone has to write them. Even 100% code coverage - and I mean per branch, not per method - is insufficient to prevent an MNU. Even if your code is perfect, someone can throw something random into your neat library, and hey presto! And we all know this, and choose the possibility of MNUs because dynamic typing meets our needs. frank >> This is no personal quality problem, this is a methodical problem. In the >> whole Pharo team. "Wrong development process!" >> > Yes, we know. DRY. > If there's no test, it won't magically appear even if you have right > development process, unless someone will write it. Flaming on mailing > list doesn't helps either way. > >> Please, again: "Develop the development process!" >> >> Have fun, Guido Stepken > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Feb. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] A challenge for all who cares

by Frank Shearar

On 20 February 2012 19:41, Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > Am 20.02.2012 10:22, schrieb Edgar J. De Cleene: > > Yesterday in a response to Craig I said have a Cuis with a wiki on top and > this .image is 5 mb and run on a âmodernâ G4 400 mhz PowerMac. > > Thatâs is a beauty and the power of Cuis, thanks Juan for your reduced image > of 2 mb > > > Looks nice. > > World menu -> appearance -> set desktop color -> Error > > What i - never ever - understand is, why - when Smalltalk is a reflective > language and there are so mighty tools - like Moose - out there, able to > search the whole codebase for possible occurrences of "message not > understood"????? This is just a trivial application of the solution to the Halting Problem (left as an exercise for the reader). Or: if you want to avoid MNU, don't use a dynamically typed language. frank > This is no personal quality problem, this is a methodical problem. In the > whole Pharo team. "Wrong development process!" > > Please, again: "Develop the development process!" > > Have fun, Guido Stepken

Feb. 20, 2012

[Pharo-project] how can I use Nautilus with OCompletion?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I just took the Nautilus from jenkins, installed OCompletion there and OCompletion seems to work fine everywhere in the image but not in Nautilus. In the code pane...it doesn't appear anything. So...is there a way to make OCompletion to work with Nautilus? Thanks! -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Feb. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] A challenge for all who cares

by Igor Stasenko

On 20 February 2012 20:41, Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > Am 20.02.2012 10:22, schrieb Edgar J. De Cleene: > > Yesterday in a response to Craig I said have a Cuis with a wiki on top and > this .image is 5 mb and run on a âmodernâ G4 400 mhz PowerMac. > > Thatâs is a beauty and the power of Cuis, thanks Juan for your reduced image > of 2 mb > > > Looks nice. > > World menu -> appearance -> set desktop color -> Error > > What i - never ever - understand is, why - when Smalltalk is a reflective > language and there are so mighty tools - like Moose - out there, able to > search the whole codebase for possible occurrences of "message not > understood"????? If you would learn smalltalk, you would understand that there's no such tool. It could search, and even may found some, but still it impossible to find all. This is the main difference between late-bound dynamic language and static, compiled one. To deal with stupid errors like that, smalltalk uses tests with good code coverage. But that means that someone has to write them. > > This is no personal quality problem, this is a methodical problem. In the > whole Pharo team. "Wrong development process!" > Yes, we know. DRY. If there's no test, it won't magically appear even if you have right development process, unless someone will write it. Flaming on mailing list doesn't helps either way. > Please, again: "Develop the development process!" > > Have fun, Guido Stepken -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

by Igor Stasenko

2c. just for the record: i can't choose. both words fit fine. except that "malleable" is quite often applied to software. so if the idea to emphasize uniqueness of pharo, then i think better to use other word. Anyways, don't put all bets on one horse. IMO no matter what key word will be, if message contents is good :) On 20 February 2012 20:01, Helene Bilbo <thereluctantprogrammer(a)fastmail.fm> wrote: > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote >> >> On Feb 20, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Ben Coman wrote: >> >>>> Pharo a plastic language to build evolvable and debuggable applications. >> >>>> Plastic = "(in science and technology) of or relating to the permanent >>>> deformation of a solid without fracture by the temporary application of >>>> force." >> >>> "General term for a fake, or in reference to a shallow person." >>> http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/plastic >> >> >> Yes I looked at that and I was not happy with it. >> >> resilience may be better >> > > Even the connotation of plastic surgery is perfect: don't like the nose of > your program? change it! "Plastic" is disputable. That's exactly what you > want to be :) > Resilience on the other hand sounds a lot like "coping" and "hardiness". > Very gray and motivated from the negative. > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-do-we-use-Pharo-a-k-a-rethinking-Pharo-marketing-… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] A challenge for all who cares

by Guido Stepken

Am 20.02.2012 10:22, schrieb Edgar J. De Cleene: > Yesterday in a response to Craig I said have a Cuis with a wiki on top > and this .image is 5 mb and run on a "modern" G4 400 mhz PowerMac. > > That's is a beauty and the power of Cuis, thanks Juan for your reduced > image of 2 mb > Looks nice. World menu -> appearance -> set desktop color -> Error What i - never ever - understand is, why - when Smalltalk is a reflective language and there are so mighty tools - like Moose - out there, able to search the whole codebase for possible occurrences of "message not understood"????? This is no personal quality problem, this is a methodical problem. In the whole Pharo team. "Wrong development process!" Please, again: "Develop the development process!" Have fun, Guido Stepken

Feb. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Nautilus Refactorings

by Benjamin

To be honest, if it works, I do not want to lose my time on Configuration It shouldn't be done by hand, but generated by a tool :) Ben On Feb 20, 2012, at 8:06 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:39 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello guys, > > I know a some of you are waiting for the integration of the RB engine into Nautilus. > > Some of them are already implemented, so if you wanna test them, here is the gofer script > > Gofer new > url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Nautilus'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfNautilus'; > load. > > (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring) perform: #loadDefault > > > > > So...that's the way of loading Nautilus with refactorings? Wouldn't it be better to include RB dependencis in ConfigurationOfNautilus and have a specific group there. So you can do for example > > ConfigurationOfNautilus project stableVersion load: 'WithRefactorings'. > > ? > > BTW, I checked the ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring and it looks you miss a critical feature of Metacello: project references :) From ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring you can directly depend on ConfigurationOfRB or ConfigurationOfNautilus rather than duplicating everything in there. Don't tell Stef you didn't read the chapter hahahaha > > > > It loads everything. > > For now I have only done some refactorings for classes, so if you popup the menu on a class, a new item named Refactoring should appear :) > > Moreover, the 'rename class' method is replaced by the RB one :) > > > Thanks in advance for your feedback, and if you want to participate, you are more than welcome :) > > > Ben > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Feb. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] garbage collection

by Igor Stasenko

On 20 February 2012 18:30, Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > Am 20.02.2012 17:51 schrieb "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: > > > ... >> so i think we having a side effect of running image stably for quite a >> long duration (and this is positive part) , but which uncovering such >> bags :) > > There are a lot more of leaks deep in the core of Pharo that make the > machine dog-slow and absolutely unusable for long-term purposes. Guido, try to not repeat yourself. Your initial message were heard. Loud and clear. If you want to help diagnosing this particular problem, and help finding solution, feel free to do it. But please don't turn every topic into own speech pedestal. > A resource watchdog would be nice to have, hat keep operators informed. :-) > > Have fun debugging, Guido Stepken -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Nautilus Refactorings

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:39 PM, Benjamin < benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello guys, > > I know a some of you are waiting for the integration of the RB engine into > Nautilus. > > Some of them are already implemented, so if you wanna test them, here is > the gofer script > > Gofer new > url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Nautilus'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfNautilus'; > load. > > (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring) perform: #loadDefault > > > So...that's the way of loading Nautilus with refactorings? Wouldn't it be better to include RB dependencis in ConfigurationOfNautilus and have a specific group there. So you can do for example ConfigurationOfNautilus project stableVersion load: 'WithRefactorings'. ? BTW, I checked the ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring and it looks you miss a critical feature of Metacello: project references :) From ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring you can directly depend on ConfigurationOfRB or ConfigurationOfNautilus rather than duplicating everything in there. Don't tell Stef you didn't read the chapter hahahaha > It loads everything. > > For now I have only done some refactorings for classes, so if you popup > the menu on a class, a new item named Refactoring should appear :) > > Moreover, the 'rename class' method is replaced by the RB one :) > > > Thanks in advance for your feedback, and if you want to participate, you > are more than welcome :) > > > Ben > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Feb. 20, 2012