February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

by Craig Latta

Oh, hey! How about "elastic"? That one already has a bit of buzz around it, as in Amazon's "Elastic Compute Cloud" (EC2). -C -- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547

Feb. 21, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

by Nick Ager

> > Pharo (or Smalltalk in general) is for me about *speed* of development. > I agree 100% with GÃ¶ran. I want my programming environment to be able to translate my ideas into code as rapidly as possible. Smalltalk is the best environment I've found for that. "Programming at the speed of thought" I've been very inspired by the following talk about the importance of the immediacy of results: http://vimeo.com/36579366

Feb. 21, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

S, Marcus Denker piÅ¡e: > AM, Krishsmalltalk wrote: >> "Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years." > Isn't "Enterprise Plattform" another word for "boring and complicated" ?? Maybe it is a time to redefine such otherwise quite adequate meaning of the term "Enterprise" with Pharo ;) Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

Feb. 21, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Nautilus Refactorings

by Benjamin

Something like ConfigurationOfNautilus ? I do not get it Ben On Feb 21, 2012, at 9:53 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > On Feb 21, 2012, at 9:46 AM, Benjamin wrote: > >> A configuration for ? > > nautilus so that it loads automatically everything it needs in a core 1.4 > >> >> >> Ben >> >> On Feb 21, 2012, at 8:21 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> >>> On Feb 20, 2012, at 11:33 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>> >>>> One last thing: when you type the name of a class somewhere and you do a cmd+b I think it would be much better if Nautilus open the "normal" browser and not "hierarchy" one. >>> >>> having cmd+h for hierarchy would be great :) >>> >>> Ben we should produce a configuration because this is important. >>> What you can do is at least load the baseline and snapshot only when you will release on version for 1.4 and 1.5 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> To be honest, if it works, I do not want to lose my time on Configuration >>>> >>>> >>>> It shouldn't be done by hand, but generated by a tool :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Ben >>>> >>>> On Feb 20, 2012, at 8:06 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:39 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Hello guys, >>>>> >>>>> I know a some of you are waiting for the integration of the RB engine into Nautilus. >>>>> >>>>> Some of them are already implemented, so if you wanna test them, here is the gofer script >>>>> >>>>> Gofer new >>>>> url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Nautilus'; >>>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfNautilus'; >>>>> load. >>>>> >>>>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring) perform: #loadDefault >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So...that's the way of loading Nautilus with refactorings? Wouldn't it be better to include RB dependencis in ConfigurationOfNautilus and have a specific group there. So you can do for example >>>>> >>>>> ConfigurationOfNautilus project stableVersion load: 'WithRefactorings'. >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> BTW, I checked the ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring and it looks you miss a critical feature of Metacello: project references :) From ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring you can directly depend on ConfigurationOfRB or ConfigurationOfNautilus rather than duplicating everything in there. Don't tell Stef you didn't read the chapter hahahaha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It loads everything. >>>>> >>>>> For now I have only done some refactorings for classes, so if you popup the menu on a class, a new item named Refactoring should appear :) >>>>> >>>>> Moreover, the 'rename class' method is replaced by the RB one :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance for your feedback, and if you want to participate, you are more than welcome :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ben >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mariano >>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mariano >>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Feb. 21, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Nautilus Refactorings

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 8:21 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > > On Feb 20, 2012, at 11:33 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > One last thing: when you type the name of a class somewhere and you do a > cmd+b I think it would be much better if Nautilus open the "normal" browser > and not "hierarchy" one. > > having cmd+h for hierarchy would be great :) > +9999999 to open a hierarchy when you do cmd+b is bad for me beacuse: 1) 99% of the times I browse that way, I want to see that class, and 99% also the rest of the classes of that package, not the hierarchy 2) I am used to that since the last..mm 3 years ;) 3) Because it seems the hierarchy windows is slow in big cases [Object browse] timeToRun 19225 so it took me 20 seconds to open the window ;) Because of that, I much prefer cmd + to for a normal browse. I don't pretend all agree, so I would be very happy when you have the setting. Please let me know so that I can set it :) Cheers! > > Ben we should produce a configuration because this is important. > What you can do is at least load the baseline and snapshot only when you > will release on version for 1.4 and 1.5 > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Benjamin < > benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > To be honest, if it works, I do not want to lose my time on Configuration > > > > > > It shouldn't be done by hand, but generated by a tool :) > > > > > > Ben > > > > On Feb 20, 2012, at 8:06 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:39 PM, Benjamin < > benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello guys, > >> > >> I know a some of you are waiting for the integration of the RB engine > into Nautilus. > >> > >> Some of them are already implemented, so if you wanna test them, here > is the gofer script > >> > >> Gofer new > >> url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Nautilus'; > >> package: 'ConfigurationOfNautilus'; > >> load. > >> > >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring) perform: > #loadDefault > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> So...that's the way of loading Nautilus with refactorings? Wouldn't > it be better to include RB dependencis in ConfigurationOfNautilus and have > a specific group there. So you can do for example > >> > >> ConfigurationOfNautilus project stableVersion load: 'WithRefactorings'. > >> > >> ? > >> > >> BTW, I checked the ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring and it looks you > miss a critical feature of Metacello: project references :) From > ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring you can directly depend on > ConfigurationOfRB or ConfigurationOfNautilus rather than duplicating > everything in there. Don't tell Stef you didn't read the chapter hahahaha > >> > >> > >> > >> It loads everything. > >> > >> For now I have only done some refactorings for classes, so if you popup > the menu on a class, a new item named Refactoring should appear :) > >> > >> Moreover, the 'rename class' method is replaced by the RB one :) > >> > >> > >> Thanks in advance for your feedback, and if you want to participate, > you are more than welcome :) > >> > >> > >> Ben > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Mariano > >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Feb. 21, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Help needed] Bug tracker

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes I will go over them as I have some time. We should think to go beta and be ready to release anytime since the RC cycle did not work last year. Stef On Feb 21, 2012, at 9:50 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: > Hi, > > There are 75 Issues for 1.4: > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?can=2&q=milestone=1.4 > > It would be really nice is more people would do the boring things: > > is this a bug? > is this for 1.4 or not critical? > does the fix fix the problem? > should the fix be included? > > > Another problem is that there are lots of very old reports in the tracker, some > from 1.0 or 1.1... > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?can=2&q=&sort=id > > - Is this bug relevant? > - Has it already been fixed? > > We should start to get a bit more radical with old submissions. If there is an improvement > that is 2 years old and nobody cared to even look at it, is it important? > > Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > >

Feb. 21, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Nautilus Refactorings

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 21, 2012, at 9:46 AM, Benjamin wrote: > A configuration for ? nautilus so that it loads automatically everything it needs in a core 1.4 > > > Ben > > On Feb 21, 2012, at 8:21 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> >> On Feb 20, 2012, at 11:33 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> >>> One last thing: when you type the name of a class somewhere and you do a cmd+b I think it would be much better if Nautilus open the "normal" browser and not "hierarchy" one. >> >> having cmd+h for hierarchy would be great :) >> >> Ben we should produce a configuration because this is important. >> What you can do is at least load the baseline and snapshot only when you will release on version for 1.4 and 1.5 >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> To be honest, if it works, I do not want to lose my time on Configuration >>> >>> >>> It shouldn't be done by hand, but generated by a tool :) >>> >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> On Feb 20, 2012, at 8:06 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:39 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Hello guys, >>>> >>>> I know a some of you are waiting for the integration of the RB engine into Nautilus. >>>> >>>> Some of them are already implemented, so if you wanna test them, here is the gofer script >>>> >>>> Gofer new >>>> url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Nautilus'; >>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfNautilus'; >>>> load. >>>> >>>> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring) perform: #loadDefault >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So...that's the way of loading Nautilus with refactorings? Wouldn't it be better to include RB dependencis in ConfigurationOfNautilus and have a specific group there. So you can do for example >>>> >>>> ConfigurationOfNautilus project stableVersion load: 'WithRefactorings'. >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> BTW, I checked the ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring and it looks you miss a critical feature of Metacello: project references :) From ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring you can directly depend on ConfigurationOfRB or ConfigurationOfNautilus rather than duplicating everything in there. Don't tell Stef you didn't read the chapter hahahaha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It loads everything. >>>> >>>> For now I have only done some refactorings for classes, so if you popup the menu on a class, a new item named Refactoring should appear :) >>>> >>>> Moreover, the 'rename class' method is replaced by the RB one :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance for your feedback, and if you want to participate, you are more than welcome :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Ben >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mariano >>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >> >> > >

Feb. 21, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

On 02/21/2012 08:32 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: > > On Feb 21, 2012, at 3:11 AM, Krishsmalltalk wrote: > >> Yes, >> >> Do not emphasize on one or few keywords. Malleable is better than plastic (can be off putting for any environment conscious) >> >> Adopt the Pharo motto: >> >> "Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years." > > > Isn't "Enterprise Plattform" another word for "boring and complicated" ?? I agree, I don't think the people we would want to attract really appreciate those attributes. Sorry for longish post - but let me ramble on this (though I am not sure how this thread has evolved - Stephane initially asked for input): Pharo (or Smalltalk in general) is for me about *speed* of development. Yes, one can make a huge list of other attributes - but it all boils down to that *for me*. For example, one could say "no, it is also about quality of code through good OO design" - but if you think about it, quality of design gives *speed*. The quality in itself doesn't give me "value" (well, I am being black-and-white here), but the speed that a good quality codebase gives me (in adapting to change etc) is true hard value. That speed makes programming fun. That speed impresses people. That speed is a true distinguishing feature. And of course, the speed comes as a product of many factors of which some are unique (but not all of them are): language-brevity * language-modeling-capability * tools * dynamic-typing * instant-compilation * app-always-running = awesome speed! ...and if we break out tools from the above equation: tools = full-reflection * written-all-in-itself * everyone-can-contribute-no-need-for-plugin-system-like-eclipse * crossplatform-so-everyone-can-contribute-regardless-of-OS So if I would "pitch" Pharo to other developers, it would be about the extravagant speed of development. Sure, cross platform and good performance through Cog is nice, but for me and many other web devs (which perhaps contitutes 90% of the audience) it would be Linux anyway and the VM speed is not a real problem. But as I said, cross-platform is important for us to be able to work together on "common ground" improving the environment. Just some food for thought. regards, GÃ¶ran

Feb. 21, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Why do we use Pharo? a.k.a. rethinking Pharo marketing

by Norbert Hartl

Am 21.02.2012 um 08:32 schrieb Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > > On Feb 21, 2012, at 3:11 AM, Krishsmalltalk wrote: > >> Yes, >> >> Do not emphasize on one or few keywords. Malleable is better than plastic (can be off putting for any environment conscious) >> >> Adopt the Pharo motto: >> >> "Pharo shall be one of the best enterprise platform in 3 years." > > > Isn't "Enterprise Plattform" another word for "boring and complicated" ?? > No, that's what java made out of it. Norbert

Feb. 21, 2012

[Pharo-project] [Help needed] Bug tracker

by Marcus Denker

Hi, There are 75 Issues for 1.4: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?can=2&q=milestone=1.4 It would be really nice is more people would do the boring things: is this a bug? is this for 1.4 or not critical? does the fix fix the problem? should the fix be included? Another problem is that there are lots of very old reports in the tracker, some from 1.0 or 1.1... http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?can=2&q=&sort=id - Is this bug relevant? - Has it already been fixed? We should start to get a bit more radical with old submissions. If there is an improvement that is 2 years old and nobody cared to even look at it, is it important? Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 21, 2012