February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] syntax error in StartupLoader script

by Ben Coman

That works. Thanks Camillo. btw, from further investigation into Q3 below, I have logged new Issue 5350 related to the invalid exclamation mark in the startup script.. Camillo Bruni wrote: > check the latest slice, I think I fixed the debugger issue. > > SLICE-Issue-5290-Cleanup-Startup-Error-Handling-CamilloBruni.7 > > best > cami > > On 2012-02-21, at 13:10, Camillo Bruni wrote: > > >> thanks, I will have a look at it >> >> >> On 2012-02-21, at 06:10, Ben Coman wrote: >> >>> I loaded SLICE-Issue-5290 onto a freshly unzipped Pharo-1.4-14341 + cogwin_r2522.zip >>> This caused a problem with the debugger as follows. In workspace I execute... >>> self halt. >>> x := 1. >>> y := 2. >>> z := x+y. >>> >>> I click the second line of the stack "UndefinedObject>>DoIt" which now shows "halt" highlighted. >>> I click <Into> and " := 1" is now highlighted. >>> I click <Into> again and nothing happens. There is no further response from any of the debugger buttons, although <Full Stack> causes the window to flash once. >>> >>> I can temporarily fix this misbehaviour by forcing #isPostMortem to always return false. >>> >>> >>> Camillo Bruni wrote: >>> >>>> you can try to load >>>> SLICE-Issue-5290-Cleanup-Startup-Error-Handling-CamilloBruni.2 >>>> >>>> from the pharoInbox which will significantly improve the error responses during startup. >>>> >>>> best >>>> cami >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2012-02-18, at 00:19, Ben Coman wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> When using the following StartupLoader script >>>>> >>>>> StartupLoader default executeAtomicItems: { >>>>> StartupAction name: 'Shared Package Cache' code: [ MCCacheRepository default directory setPathName: 'C:\Apps\Smalltalk\!Shared-Package-Cache'.]. >>>>> }. >>>>> >>>>> I was getting a "syntax error in startup" that I could not identify (is it obvious to others?) >>>>> This was due to the debugger not opening at the point of error since SmalltalkImage>>executeDeferredStartupActions catches the errors. So I hacked this as follows... >>>>> deferredStartupActions do: [:each | >>>>> [ each cull: resuming ] value. >>>>> "btcdebug >>>>> on: Halt >>>>> do: [ :err| >>>>> Smalltalk >>>>> logError: '==== Startup Error: ', err description >>>>> inContext: err signalerContext. >>>>> errors add: err]"]. >>>>> >>>>> and then after a quit and restart the dialog "Syntax error: Unmatched string quote" appeared with... >>>>> StartupLoader default executeAtomicItems: { >>>>> StartupAction name: 'Shared Package Cache' code: [ MCCacheRepository default directory setPathName: _Unmatched string quote_ -> 'C:\Apps\Smalltalk\ >>>>> >>>>> So after removing "!" from the folder name the syntax error went away. >>>>> >>>>> So now a few questions... >>>>> >>>>> 1. Is there a simpler way to debug the startup scripts that I have missed? >>>>> If not, can a StartupLoader>>test or similar be implemented which runs the same as at image start time but without the error catching in executeDeferredStartupActions, rather than needing to hack executeDeferredStartupActions as I did. >>>>> >>>>> 2. Is it reasonable to set a shared package cache in the startup like I have? Or are there some obvious problems with this that I don't see? >>>>> I would like to avoid downloading all packages every time unzip a fresh image for testing. >>>>> >>>>> 3. Is the invalid "!" fixable (though of course I've worked around it)? >>>>> >>>>> I'll open any required bug entries. This was with Pharo-14333 / cogwin_r2522.zip / Windows 7. >>>>> >>>>> cheers, -ben >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > > > >

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Fed up with the troll - my personal response

by Noury Bouraqadi

Two times Funny. L1: Mimicking a troll L2: People (including me) going to a web site to watch "a troll". It's a kind of "troll zoo" :-D On 22 fÃ©vr. 2012, at 12:23, Nick Ager wrote: > Trolls are so repetitive - it's not difficult to parody them... > > http://troller.seasidehosting.st/ > > Nick Noury -- http://twitter.com/#!/NouryBouraqadi http://www.kroobe.com/profile/noury Afin de contribuer au respect de l'environnement, merci de n'imprimer ce courriel qu'en cas de necessite Please consider the environment before you print

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by Christoph Wysseier

Dear Esteban Am 22.02.12 13:11, schrieb Esteban Lorenzano: > Hi, >> 2012/2/22 Christoph Wysseier <c.wysseier(a)netstyle.ch >> <mailto:c.wysseier@netstyle.ch>> >> Am 22.02.12 08:32, schrieb StÃ©phane Ducasse: >> I'm convinced that having support for multitouch event/ genie >> and others works (for iPad = $$$$) is important. >> >> Without pretending to know the future, IMHO standalone apps for >> tablets and mobile will disappear over time. >> > I don't see this happening anytime soon either. I think two years ago > this was the most extended concept about the future of computers (and I > was a bit disappointed, tbh), but that changed a lot with tablet market > growing: most tablet applications are standalone applications, old > fashioned desktop apps (and even some are old fashion client-server > apps). This is not decreasing, but the opposite. > Even more, I observed that, while big companies, in effect, are moving > to web platform and cloud. Small companies prefer desktop applications. > > As I said in web panel at ESUG: I already saw this happening. Time to > time development moves onto one direction (all in the desktop, all in > the server) and people seems to think one of the sides will prevail... I > think real future is (and always has been) somewhere in the middle... > taking case to case to decide, there is no one unique answer. You are right, Esteban, there is no unique answer to every use case. As always in computer science one has to find the optimal solution. My statement was not carefully worded enough, it was more intended to be my observation of the current trends for business applications we develop. Those are all for small Swiss companies and they are very happy to not maintain a desktop software distribution architecture. But I am aware of the fact that this observation might not fit to the whole industry. At app stores I look quite differently. IMHO app stores with standalone applications are a temporary fashion (although the current development is the opposite) because it gave the opportunity to earn a lot of money for large industry companies with a lock-in for app developers. My prediction is that sometimes the pendulum will swing back as soon as the technology really allows to create apps with the same user experience and simplicity using web-technologies. In that scenario, you will not have to pay x% to the app store operator which will be also a reason avoiding such stores in the future. Cheers, Chris

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo VM

by Tudor Girba

+1 Doru On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:26 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> >> Here some news: >> We finally got windows slave up and running. So, now we can build Vms >> for all 3 platforms and test them. > > Excellent news to me > >> >> Now there are 2 things left before releasing updated VMs: >> - test why windows VM crashing randomly > > - test why dave mason got mac vm crashing that much. > >> - create an job for building 1-click package. >> >> P.S. An automatic builds often detecting various discrepancies here >> and there, since it doing everything from scratch every time, >> which you usually don't do if run things manually. >> Which is good, because it helps us to ensure that things we do are >> reproducable, but it means having more work :) >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Feb. 22, 2012

[Pharo-project] Bug Tracker Status

by Marcus Denker

Reports for 1.3: 13 http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?can=2&q=milestone%3D1.3 Reports for 1.4: 66 http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?can=2&q=milestone%3D1.4 All Reports: 467 http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?can=2 -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by Norbert Hartl

Am 22.02.2012 um 13:28 schrieb GermÃ¡n Arduino: > Example: xmlrpc died before to born, worked only in 1.1.1, now I must find time to update it to zinc and 1.3 but with the fear that again will not work in 1.4. What are your building blocks except http and xml? If you were working on 1.1.1 then xml parser moved quite a bit and zinc appeared on the scene. The changes to adopt xml parser should be minimal. Zinc provides a facade that mimicks backward compatibility. So you could have an easy start. But to be honest the situation is soooo much better with having zinc that you might save some time in development if you use zinc straight away. And about 1.4: Yes, it moves a lot but zinc and xml do not. Xml is stable since months and the change rate in zinc is also dropping. So you might expect them to be available until...let's say...3 months from now. :) Ok, just kidding, I think the will stay similar for quite some time. Norbert

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

GermÃ¡n, On 22 Feb 2012, at 13:28, GermÃ¡n Arduino wrote: > Example: xmlrpc died before to born, worked only in 1.1.1, now I must find time to update it to zinc and 1.3 but with the fear that again will not work in 1.4. I think I said it before (but I can't remember it must be a long time ago): I am more than willing to help you port it. I am not a fan of XMLRPC, but it is an existing standard that has its place. Furthermore, it was designed to be very simple, so it would be a shame to let it rot away. Sven

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Fed up with the troll - my personal response

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 22 Feb 2012, at 12:23, Nick Ager wrote: > Trolls are so repetitive - it's not difficult to parody them... > > http://troller.seasidehosting.st/ > > Nick Excellent!

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by GermÃ¡n Arduino

2012/2/21 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > Hi janko > > > More polishing and boring bug hunting tasks therefore and just a bit > > less fundamental rewritings like compiler etc. > > Did you ever look at one bug entry? > You see the bug entry does not magically empty itself. There are people > like me and marcus > and a couple of others that are looking at reports, producing fixes... > Hi Stef: This may or may not be the proper site to put my feelings, but still, they are with the intention of help and construct. When Pharo not existed, and almost all of us were in Squeak (I'm still there, only watching now) I remember to be worried all the time by have 3000 or more unread mails, lot of threads and talks that I couldn't follow. And the other problem was all the time all things changing, then we had in Smalltalk the sort of problems that we criticized in other platforms, the software written today will not run tomorrow in the new version (I remember for example Squeak modules, around 2003). Now It's happening to me that I'm having more than 6000 unread mails in the Pharo main list (and more than 700 in pharo users) and the Pharo ecosystem grew up at a limit very hard to follow to me. I tried to help in different ways, solving bugs, building somethings as xmlrpc (with the invaluable help of ESUG) but happens that (having other 2 jobs to survive) is not easy to find the free time to help, and this is worst when the ecosystem grew as is happening with Pharo (lot of different ideas, frameworks, ways to do the things) I'm not crying, only describ my reality, I would love to be some sort of researcher working all time in cool stuff as Pharo and friends, but unfortunately is not my reality and in this context, find free time to help is a problem, and a previous worst problem is find free time to follow the community, understand the context and be up to date with all the new things and how they change and affect the already written software. Example: xmlrpc died before to born, worked only in 1.1.1, now I must find time to update it to zinc and 1.3 but with the fear that again will not work in 1.4. Just my feelings. Cheers.

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Fed up with the troll - my personal response

by Tudor Girba

Hilarious. Doru On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > :) > > El 22/02/2012, a las 8:23a.m., Nick Ager escribiÃ³: > > Trolls are so repetitive - it's not difficult to parody them... > > http://troller.seasidehosting.st/ > > Nick > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Feb. 22, 2012