February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] shadows problem with 1.4

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes we removed the shadow canvas and I tried to have a look. I just draw the morph instead of the black filled. I imagine that shifting the morph from some pixels should be simple but I did not get the time to really look at it. On Feb 22, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: > A change somewhere broke the Morph shadow feature in 1.4. > Gary et al. do you have any idea? > See http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5314 > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo -- http://www.drgeo.eu > >

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [Pharo-users] pharo & arduino

by Ricardo Moran

Hi everybody, If you happen to have an arduino this might be interesting for you: http://tecnodacta.com.ar/gira/2012/02/pharo-and-arduino/. Also, you probably already know, but I noticed while testing this that FFI doesn't work in the latest Windows VM published in the Pharo website. In case it helps, the latest CogVM published here works fine: http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/ Cheers, Richo On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 5:32 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > since this will interest some of you :) > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *Ricardo Moran <richi.moran(a)gmail.com> > *Subject: **Re: [Pharo-users] pharo & arduino* > *Date: *February 21, 2012 6:33:28 PM GMT+01:00 > *To: *GÃ©rard Duteil <linedubeth(a)free.fr> > *Cc: *StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:28 PM, GÃ©rard Duteil <linedubeth(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> Bonsoir Ã tous, >> >> Je ne savais que l'on pouvais faire tourner les physical etoys dans >> pharo, j'utilisais Squeak >> >> >> Plus gÃ©nÃ©ralement je cherche des liens sur les pic, les microcontroleurs >> et une interface graphique en glisser deposer qui me permette de dialoguer >> avec de l'Ã©lectronique sous linux. Sous win j'ai des outils mais je prefere >> l'utilisation de gnu/linux >> >> je suis tombÃ© sur un lien ancien smalltalk/pic mais j'aimerais bien >> trouver un projet plus rÃ©cent et maintenu. >> >> Je vais donc essayer le lien merci >> >> et je viens de retomber sur le lien qui m'a fait redÃ©couvrir les etoys >> >> Merci >> Au plaisir de vous lire >> >> Hello, >> > > Hi GÃ©rard, > > >> I don't know that physical etoys runs in pharo. I use Squeak and install >> pe in ubuntu. >> > > Well, the "Etoys" part of Physical Etoys doesn't run on Pharo, but all the > core classes should work fine. I don't know exactly what you need so let me > tell you what we did: > We made a very simple model that lets you communicate with your Arduino > using a firmware like Firmata, or a simple firmware made by us (see the > class comment of the class Arduino for code examples). We also made a very > rudimentary C code generator to translate Smalltalk into C and we linked it > to the avr-gcc/avrdude so now we can program the Arduino board without > leaving Smalltalk, which is very cool. Unfortunately, the translator is > still very limited (I think even more limited than Slang) but we are using > it to translate the etoys scripts and it's good enough for our purposes. > > >> >> I search more links about pic, electronics and gui with drag and drop to >> program this electronic's component for kids. I prefer use gnu/linux. >> > > If you're interested in a graphical interface for kids maybe you'll be > better working with the Physical Etoys version instead of using the sources > with Pharo. FWIW, making a graphical interface shouldn't be difficult at > all but the Etoys interface is being used with kids and it's quite good > IMHO. > > >> >> But i don't know your project i use your link >> sorry http://tecnodacta.com.ar/gira/**projects/physical-etoys/<http://tecnodacta.com.ar/gira/projects/physical-etoys/>is my last tool >> >> > You'll find there the latest version of Physical Etoys, we are soon to > release a new version with a lot of improvements. So stay tuned! :) > > >> >> tanks too much for your proposition. sorry i don't speak spanish language >> but if necessary i transfert your message. >> >> >> I have found a commercial tool s4a. Do you know this? >> > > Yes, in fact I had the luck to meet its creators in person during the ESUG > 2010 conference. S4A is a great tool, and the Scratch interface is very > nice. You should definitely give it atry. > > >> >> i have download this http://seaside.citilab.eu/**S4ADev.zip<http://seaside.citilab.eu/S4ADev.zip> >> >> but i'm a beginner. >> >> i'm interresting by pharo because it's le lastest program developping, >> isn'it? >> > > I'm not sure what that means. We usually don't use Pharo to develop > Physical Etoys because, you know, Etoys doesn't run in Pharo. However, I > would like to ensure at least some of our project works in Pharo. If I can, > I'll test it this week and maybe I'll write a ConfigurationOfArduino. Would > that help? > > Cheers, > Richo > > >> >> >> thanks a lot >> >> >> >> >> Le 20/02/2012 09:16, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : >> >>> thanks for you answer >>> I hope that you are going well. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Feb 20, 2012, at 12:15 AM, Ricardo Moran wrote: >>> >>> Hi Stef, >>>> >>>> You can look at the Arduino repository at squeaksource ( >>>> http://www.squeaksource.com/**Arduino.html<http://www.squeaksource.com/Arduino.html> >>>> ). >>>> Everything but the "Arduino-Etoys*" packages should work fine in Pharo. >>>> At least they worked the last time I checked but a lot has changed since >>>> then, so let me know if you encounter any problem, I'll be happy to help. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Richo >>>> >>>> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 6:15 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse<stephane.ducasse@** >>>> inria.fr <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>> wrote: >>>> Hi ricardo >>>> >>>> do you have some information how to connect pharo to arduino? >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >>>> From: GÃ©rard Duteil<linedubeth(a)free.fr> >>>>> Subject: [Pharo-users] pharo& arduino >>>>> >>>>> Date: February 18, 2012 9:42:02 AM GMT+01:00 >>>>> To: pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.**inria.fr<pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>>>> Reply-To: A friendly place where any question about pharo is welcome< >>>>> pharo-users(a)lists.**gforge.inria.fr<pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> Hello,,,I search info about this subject., >>>>> ,I'm interesting by picaxe also,,,, >>>>> A beginner in object programmation,,, >>>>> I wait the 25th may,,, >>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > >

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] DrGeo on ARM Android

by Hilaire Fernandes

Le 22/02/2012 13:17, Helene Bilbo a Ã©crit : > Is it only the VM or did you change things on the DrGeo side of things too > for something like zoom-gestures? > Did you describe the process of how to take the app from desktop (or what's > the opposite of tablet?) to tablet somewhere? Or can you use exactly the > same image? I would be very interested in learning more about it.. > You need to adapt the UI of course: bigger icons and the need to adapt the way math items are build from the interface. All this can be done at the image level. For now we have not yet look at the advanced gesture like zoom or multitouch, we need to think about an interface at the image level, consistent across the various tablet OS. Regarding Pharo I am pretty happy with its widgetry, themable, the ease to adapt an unique source base to different OS and hardware architecture. It scale pretty well. -- Dr. Geo -- http://www.drgeo.eu

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] DrGeo on ARM Android

by Hilaire Fernandes

Le 22/02/2012 12:58, Guido Stepken a Ã©crit : > I read about Dr.Geo in many educational journals, a very good reputation > - worldwide. You are too kind, the reputation of DrGeo is not that important. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo -- http://www.drgeo.eu

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by S Krish

Sure will take it up .. and post back if I need anything. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be>wrote: > > On 22 Feb 2012, at 17:52, S Krish wrote: > > > I am willing to contribute to XMLRPC.. Hopefully will integrate a full > fledged interface between Pharo and Groovy and have it run load and atleast > a complete JDBC optimized interface and a pure XMLRpc bridge to the outer > world.. > > Great ! > > > So will have inputs and ability to ensure that it stays in shape ahead. > I do not promise porting to Zinc or the likes immediately but may > eventually if it makes a greater performance sense.. > > It is dead simple to port XMLRPC to Zinc HTTP Components, client side is > just a POST, server side is nothing more than accepting a POST on an > endpoint. It would be a huge mistake to try to stay compatible with old > stuff. Zinc has been a standard part of Pharo since 1.3. > > Sven >

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] How to cook Mr Popatoe Process?

by S Krish

I would say be Zen like as Noury puts it . . Who knows in the next one year you can see such likes as biggest votaries of Pharo, for I am sure it will achieve a lot more than he expects today to see. Nicer if eventually the energy now shown, gets channelized strongly for Pharo eventually, I am sure will as tide of time turns. Time is a great leveller for all prophecies.. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 1:03 AM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 2/21/2012 2:37 AM, Noury Bouraqadi wrote: > >> >> On 21 fÃ©vr. 2012, at 07:44, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> Hi guys >>> >>> we have practically two solutions to cook a troll: >>> - either I remove his email address from the list (2 min) >>> a bit rude and unfriendly but this is a troll after all ;) >>> >>> +1 Everybody is fed up with spams. >> >> Noury >> >> > Unfortunately, this may not solve the problem unless we play the game of > "Whack a Troll". We would have to delete his email address every time he > creates a new one. > > I think ultimately we as a community need to simply learn not to feed the > trolls. When they are trolling, ignore them. If he actually provides > something usefully such as a bug report with reproducible actions, or a > patch, an appropriate approved actionable suggestion. Then we can treat > those emails with the respect due such emails. > > But if he simply continues to Parrot the same old thing. Plonk! Ignore. > > Or as Stef said, > > >> - or we all create a nice rule: as Read > >> > >> I suggest you all to do 2 and keep you good energy for helping and > >> not arguing endless with Mr Potato Process. > > Jimmie > > >

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 22 Feb 2012, at 17:52, S Krish wrote: > I am willing to contribute to XMLRPC.. Hopefully will integrate a full fledged interface between Pharo and Groovy and have it run load and atleast a complete JDBC optimized interface and a pure XMLRpc bridge to the outer world.. Great ! > So will have inputs and ability to ensure that it stays in shape ahead. I do not promise porting to Zinc or the likes immediately but may eventually if it makes a greater performance sense.. It is dead simple to port XMLRPC to Zinc HTTP Components, client side is just a POST, server side is nothing more than accepting a POST on an endpoint. It would be a huge mistake to try to stay compatible with old stuff. Zinc has been a standard part of Pharo since 1.3. Sven

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by blake

> 3. Event model was so oldfashioned, that Adobe decided to drop the VM. Adobe would probably _like_ to drop the VM but that's unlikely...ever. They stopped the dual development approach: They have a VM for the hardware, and stopped trying to provide a VM for every BROWSER on every piece of hardware. Sensible. Or are you referring to the AVM -> AVM2 upgrade?

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by S Krish

Pharo can and does run beautifully on much lesser hardware requirement than Android does. Combine Pharo with tiny core linux or put it on top of Raspberry Pi.. I am sure for a 128 MB RAM, 256MB Pharo can offer the best experience. We may have a need to optimize the performance etc.. but that is work underway and I am sure in another year we will have something workable. Even if not, provided a good enterprise funding it can be done in less time than it took to get Android to shape. Future will obviously provide 1GB RAM Tablet at 60$ or less.. but not visibly in the next couple of years.. We should push for adoption in these yet available opportunities of linux variants, Raspberry pi to offer a cleaner / leaner Pharo Kernel. As for all the predictions of Web taking over, I have yet to comprehend Web as a means to have best user experience. It offers a major advantage of all of the server processing with just the client view presentation or minimal view code on the browser, but if you look at Gmail with ever increasing javascript base, the Dart, the HTML 5 elements specially the sqllite, video tag, canvas, it is just slowly converting browsers to general purpose presentation engine, with as much power of desktop app. But this generalization of presentation will remain a compromise. I for one do believe that server side focus though is very important for Pharo, the desktop is where with Morphic cleaned up, multi touch enabled, Open GL integration, newer paradigm of interactive user interface blurring the line of dev/ runtime, complete flexibility, ductile, elastic.. throw in all adjectives it can throw open a totally new frontier. This is all not tablets, multi touch will rule all of large screen displays in future from banks, hospitals to any place. Useful greatly for medical presentations, manipulations, but equally usable in corporate world of the future.. Segregate the concept of server side from delivering web browser apps. That is a bit of enterprise fallacy. Yes nice in social context, but I do believe its been a marketing overkill to make browsers the default client for enterprise, but half driven by drabness of widgetry from Java world and the complexity of the Windows UI toolkit. Still the richness of widgets on a GUI app is not trifling work to replicate in a web and we can easily do a client-server app with all the business executed on the server and / or agent network delivery of parcelled code sections that clients trade with and complete their tasks. This code section transfer can be same model as the javascript transfers on a browser. Web has as yet not delivered on its promises for Office Suite, even a comparable email client to Outlook, Thunderbird and others.. it may have killed also rans of the past but not comparable to feature / capability of desktop. I doubt if I will ever see MS Office vanish.. perhaps Star Office is the only alternative but not web really. photo viewing the most ubiquitous of web apps, are a pain developing compared to a morphic app if we indulge ourselves in.. ,Yes it will require a year or more of effort coming up with ecquvivalents to javascript libraries.. but when done, or lets say custom done it is neater, easier , flexible than using those libraries. I do not rate Picassa as great.. at all, with morphic you can have all jazz custom built as in flash but lot more fun.. I forsee, the possibility given a good start up with decent funds, can work out more out of Morphic in couple of years, that can make desktop the fun place to be in.. Why not think of Pharo on the TV screen/ other such devices to present all the complex UI's, menu's that are primarily morphic widgets that get you through to playing the streaming video, disks et all.. but all of its UI layer can easily be a fun work with Morphic.. it can offer all the fun of twisting morphs, decorated and intelligent morphs placed/ floating / animation or whatever is your raging thought.. on these large screens.. Of course I wish we could ensure perfection in rendering a la Cuis. for that to be not just fun but perfect. Look at all the devices that are in hospitals that do cry for a UI revamp, I am sure with half decent effort we can make the UI on devices greater fun..for everyone, the user, the developer and ofcourse the enterprise making money, than what we see in there. All of PoS apps in VB and its ilk.. are generation old, With my little dev interface I have now cobbled up with three Worlds/ Panels, I have seen a glint in the eyes of the newbies that they are working on something ahead of the current world, but the crashes, glitches do get them doubting..!, which I intend to smoothen and even cloak around a bit so that they do not feel the rough edges unless they are experienced smalltalkers to comprehend all of it. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:15 PM, Tobias Pape <Das.Linux(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > Am 2012-02-22 um 10:30 schrieb Milan Mimica: > > > Pharo is an IDE. IDEs don't run on tablets. > > Then see the lively kernelâ¦ >

Feb. 22, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by S Krish

I am willing to contribute to XMLRPC.. Hopefully will integrate a full fledged interface between Pharo and Groovy and have it run load and atleast a complete JDBC optimized interface and a pure XMLRpc bridge to the outer world.. So will have inputs and ability to ensure that it stays in shape ahead. I do not promise porting to Zinc or the likes immediately but may eventually if it makes a greater performance sense.. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 6:23 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be>wrote: > GermÃ¡n, > > On 22 Feb 2012, at 13:28, GermÃ¡n Arduino wrote: > > Example: xmlrpc died before to born, worked only in 1.1.1, now I must > find time to update it to zinc and 1.3 but with the fear that again will > not work in 1.4. > > I think I said it before (but I can't remember it must be a long time > ago): I am more than willing to help you port it. I am not a fan of XMLRPC, > but it is an existing standard that has its place. Furthermore, it was > designed to be very simple, so it would be a shame to let it rot away. > > Sven >

Feb. 22, 2012