February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Sure we know. And we also know that it requires effort and lot of people are talking. Stef On Feb 23, 2012, at 7:27 PM, Matias Garcia Isaia wrote: > I hope you've seen CodeBubbles[0]... > > Wouldn't it be better something like that? If you want to see more > than one method (understandable situation), you open multiple "method > views" and that's it. Seeing a whole class as a file doesn't solve > much of the problem: nothing guarantees the methods you want to see > are toghether in "the file", and nothing guarantees the methods belong > to the same class... > > > Maybe just decoupling the method pane from the rest of the browser > (and providing some popping-out mechanism to have multiple method > panes at the same time) could help? > > > [0] http://www.andrewbragdon.com/codebubbles_site.asp > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:43 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> good idea! >> >> Stef >> >> On Feb 22, 2012, at 11:03 PM, Frank Shearar wrote: >> >>> Well, me! One thing that would make my life considerably easier is a >>> MessageSet-like browser that "flattened" the methods, so they were >>> displayed one above the other - simulating a text file, in other >>> words. So many times I want to look at how a set of classes implement >>> some method. >> >> >

Feb. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 23, 2012, at 6:20 PM, Milan Mimica wrote: > On 23 February 2012 07:58, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > well take what you believe is important for you and help us. > > I will. > Question: do you expect Pharo to fork into more specialized branches? > I would like if that happened. I do not understand your question but did you read my answer. Did you SEE what we did in all these directions? Does it mean forking? NO it mens improving the infrastructure. Now guys I will stop because I have to work. You can read the Pharo vision and you will see. Now the message is focus on your future and share. Look at Sven. Stef

Feb. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Migrating from VSE

by Andreas Wacknitz

Krish, Am 23.02.2012 um 09:27 schrieb S Krish: > Can anyone can throw in the challenges in migrating VSE into Pharo.. > > UI -> Morphic a big change.. > > rest of the code -> Pharo base.. do we have grease / or anything akin.. to ease migration > > Or is it simply the same effort as pushng this into VW where it would stand better guarantees..? both from a corporate plan/ support etc. I don't know if you have already heard of LSW Smalltalk. A few years ago they tried to establish a replacement for VSE. As far as I remember it was based on a VM by Lesser Software and image parts of Dolphin Smalltalk. I don't know its actual state but you might contact Lesser Software to get details. Regards, Andreas

Feb. 23, 2012

[Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 Tests-Mac - Build # 228 - Still Unstable!

by jenkins-pharo.ci.inria.fr＠jenkins-server.lille.inria.fr

Feb. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 and forward (was Netstyle experience)

by Yanni Chiu

On 23/02/12 4:00 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > For the "you're just complaining" crowd, I'm simply reporting what is > happening. I would very much like to see Jenkins build a 1.4 and > then a 1.4+Seaside. Doesn't the build server have that at: https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Seaside%20Pharo%201.4/ You might also have a look at the list of "Downstream Projects" listed at: https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo%201.4/

Feb. 23, 2012

[Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 Tests-Unix - Build # 239 - Still Unstable!

by jenkins-pharo.ci.inria.fr＠jenkins-server.lille.inria.fr

Feb. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Matias Garcia Isaia

I hope you've seen CodeBubbles[0]... Wouldn't it be better something like that? If you want to see more than one method (understandable situation), you open multiple "method views" and that's it. Seeing a whole class as a file doesn't solve much of the problem: nothing guarantees the methods you want to see are toghether in "the file", and nothing guarantees the methods belong to the same class... Maybe just decoupling the method pane from the rest of the browser (and providing some popping-out mechanism to have multiple method panes at the same time) could help? [0] http://www.andrewbragdon.com/codebubbles_site.asp On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:43 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > good idea! > > Stef > > On Feb 22, 2012, at 11:03 PM, Frank Shearar wrote: > >> Well, me! One thing that would make my life considerably easier is a >> MessageSet-like browser that "flattened" the methods, so they were >> displayed one above the other - simulating a text file, in other >> words. So many times I want to look at how a set of classes implement >> some method. > >

Feb. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by Andreas Wacknitz

Christoph, Am 23.02.2012 um 09:31 schrieb Christoph Wysseier: > Dear Andreas > > Am 22.02.12 23:00, schrieb Andreas Wacknitz: >> >> Am 22.02.2012 um 10:34 schrieb Janko MivÅ¡ek: >> >>> S, Christoph Wysseier piÅ¡e: >>> >>>> StÃ©phane Ducasse: >>> >>>>> I'm convinced that having support for multitouch event/ genie and >>>>> others works (for iPad = $$$$) is important. >>> >>>> Without pretending to know the future, IMHO standalone apps for tablets >>>> and mobile will disappear over time. Out of my perspective it would be >>>> far more important to move in the direction of web-based technologies >>>> also in this area. Looking at the success stories of Pharo and our own >>>> strategy I do not see the advantages of having multi-touch support for >>>> the development of such applications. >>> >>> I agree completely that web based techologies are where we should go >>> because we have advantage here with Smalltalk while for any kind of GUI >>> we are off. >> [stuff deleted] >> >> I like Smalltalk the language for its orthogonality and power. If I hear a statement >> like "we should go<enter hype term here> because its the future!" I have the feeling >> that somebody wants some followers on his or her main area of interest. > > Although I do not believe Web technolgies to be just a hype, it was not my intention at all to convince everyone working with Pharo to use it from now on for web applications only. There are of course several stakeholders with different business or community ideas. Nevertheless, as we and others are using Pharo as an IDE to develop web applications we need to be able to count on the support of the board and community that the further development considers our business model which does not lock out other ideas at all. > My message was not a reaction to your mail but to Janko's. I want Smalltalk (and especially Pharo) as an all purpose system. In my opinion it's a mistake to focus on a certain area like web technologies. And I guess as long as Pinesoft is doing well in business with traditional GUI's and INRIA is interested in research in dynamic languages (and not dynamic web languages) I don't have to fear that Pharo will go in that direction :-) Regards, Andreas

Feb. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by Krishsmalltalk

Why not.. How many branches does ubuntu have. I am not talking of whole of linux. But all of them will feed from the base and perhaps specialize in ways reqd. On Feb 23, 2012, at 10:50 PM, Milan Mimica <milan.mimica(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 23 February 2012 07:58, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > well take what you believe is important for you and help us. > > I will. > Question: do you expect Pharo to fork into more specialized branches? > I would like if that happened. > > > -- > Milan Mimica > http://sparklet.sf.net

Feb. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Netstyle experience (was Do not feed the trolls)

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

I think better idea is to have easy to find one-click installations for different branches, like one ConfigurationOf for desktop programing, another for web programing, next one for ... Those installations must be bullet-proof tested to work for each Pharo version and tests can be done automatically with Jenkins CI server. One click install directly from Word submenu? Best regards Janko S, Krishsmalltalk piÅ¡e: > > > Why not.. > > How many branches does ubuntu have. I am not talking of whole of linux. > But all of them will feed from the base and perhaps specialize in ways > reqd. > > > > On Feb 23, 2012, at 10:50 PM, Milan Mimica <milan.mimica(a)gmail.com > <mailto:milan.mimica@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> On 23 February 2012 07:58, StÃ©phane Ducasse >> <<mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr >> <mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>> wrote: >> >> >> well take what you believe is important for you and help us. >> >> >> I will. >> Question: do you expect Pharo to fork into more specialized branches? >> I would like if that happened. >> >> >> -- >> Milan Mimica >> <http://sparklet.sf.net>http://sparklet.sf.net -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

Feb. 23, 2012