February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, Sorry about the empty reply. Migrate is fair game, and the image was healthy enough to file out the base (attached). Please look over how I install FFI to see if there are any mistakes. You might need to stub out a basic subclass (e.g. MigrateSig or anything else you want to call it) with a few methods (#me, #homeGrownClasses, etc.) to make it happy. Content of them can be simple to start. The "private stuff" has yet to enter the picture so shouldn't matter to us. THANKS!!! Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:30 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 On 25 February 2012 03:39, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > *I* can't set that up, but I know someone who can. It won't be a soft sell though, but it is kind offer on your part and I will investigate. Right now, the private project is Migrate, and you can HAVE that; I just need to scratch my head about how to make it work for you, after which you can tell me how naive I'm being :) > I have own reasons to help. So if you think you still need it, feel free to contact me. > For now, I appear to have found the culprit: loading Alien is frying the image. > Quite possible. FFI is delicate thing. > Bill > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:58 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 > > One more thing: if it about private project, just tell me where to put > my signature under NDA. > If that would help to make Pharo more stable as well as help your > project to keep going on, we're both in mutual benefit without risks > for you. > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:30 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 On 25 February 2012 03:39, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > *I* can't set that up, but I know someone who can. It won't be a soft sell though, but it is kind offer on your part and I will investigate. Right now, the private project is Migrate, and you can HAVE that; I just need to scratch my head about how to make it work for you, after which you can tell me how naive I'm being :) > I have own reasons to help. So if you think you still need it, feel free to contact me. > For now, I appear to have found the culprit: loading Alien is frying the image. > Quite possible. FFI is delicate thing. > Bill > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:58 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 > > One more thing: if it about private project, just tell me where to put > my signature under NDA. > If that would help to make Pharo more stable as well as help your > project to keep going on, we're both in mutual benefit without risks > for you. > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3

by Igor Stasenko

On 25 February 2012 03:39, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > *I* can't set that up, but I know someone who can. Â It won't be a soft sell though, but it is kind offer on your part and I will investigate. Â Right now, the private project is Migrate, and you can HAVE that; I just need to scratch my head about how to make it work for you, after which you can tell me how naive I'm being :) > I have own reasons to help. So if you think you still need it, feel free to contact me. > For now, I appear to have found the culprit: loading Alien is frying the image. > Quite possible. FFI is delicate thing. > Bill > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:58 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 > > One more thing: if it about private project, just tell me where to put > my signature under NDA. > If that would help to make Pharo more stable as well as help your > project to keep going on, we're both in mutual benefit without risks > for you. > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, *I* can't set that up, but I know someone who can. It won't be a soft sell though, but it is kind offer on your part and I will investigate. Right now, the private project is Migrate, and you can HAVE that; I just need to scratch my head about how to make it work for you, after which you can tell me how naive I'm being :) For now, I appear to have found the culprit: loading Alien is frying the image. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:58 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 One more thing: if it about private project, just tell me where to put my signature under NDA. If that would help to make Pharo more stable as well as help your project to keep going on, we're both in mutual benefit without risks for you. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3

by Igor Stasenko

One more thing: if it about private project, just tell me where to put my signature under NDA. If that would help to make Pharo more stable as well as help your project to keep going on, we're both in mutual benefit without risks for you. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3

by Igor Stasenko

On 25 February 2012 01:28, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > I hope you are correct, but my experience says otherwise. Â I'm going to press on with 1.4, try setting a breakpoint in the snapshot to screen for involuntary saves, and then "certify" the image with a gratuitous error each time after MC activity and before saving. Â As it is, I keep getting corrupt images that have thins loaded but ultimately are useless because the debugger won't work. > >From your description it is hard to tell what is the nature of issue. The only thing what i could say is that jumping from version to version hoping that problem will magically dissolve by itself is bad technique. Knowing what happens is much better than relying on hope, because your approach sounds like trying to catch black cat in dark room. > Bill > > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 2:01 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 > > On 24 February 2012 20:48, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >> Sig, >> >> Fair enough. Â I find 1..3 to unstable, and the thrashing sounds about right. Â For now I am trying to carve a home in 1.4. >> > > i don't think it is fair labeling 1.3 unstable. It is quite stable and > worked well for me. Now there's always space for improvement, > but that's doesn't nullifies the quality of previous hard work of many > people (pharo 1.3, 1.2 , 1.1, 1.0 squeak etc..) > >> Bill >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:37 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 >> >> On 24 February 2012 16:11, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >>> Guys, >>> >>> I'm hoping Sig will see this an immediately know what is at play. Â I don't even know if there is a fix, but there appears to be in 1.4. Â If backporting that to 1.3 is feasible, it should be done. Â I *think* I know some keywords that might pull his relevant reply (something like "you are a victim of") from the archive. Â Can't do it right now. >>> >> i remember it. >> And no, i don't see why these changes are needed to be backported to 1.3. >> It was : >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5167&q=finalization&colspec… >> >> and fix which were integrated was about improving a situation with >> runaway processes and interrupt handling. >> >> Now, that bug entry is still not closed, becaue we have to deal with >> so-called "finalization trashing", whether it is real issue or not. >> As to me, this is not an issue, because finalization "trashing" is a >> consequence but not the cause. And since it is better to fix the cause >> instead, that what i actually did. >> And then during integration i made a mistake in one method (an >> overlooking), causing debugger to not open, but it is already >> reverted. >> All this is related to 1.4 bleeding edge, not to 1.3. >> And i personally don't see good reason porting it to 1.3. It is not >> critical. We just improved this part a bit. So, the new pharo version >> is naturally better than older one.. that's why we got versions >> and development process. :) >> If we would start backporting everything, then we don't need versions >> anymore. We then will just have single image and fight with all >> dragons at once. >> >>> BTW, Â I took Stef's reply and used it to good effect - might have even figured out why I couldn't build images. Â All part of testing. Â If you look, you'll find code of mine in the image. Â Have you noted some of my responses to help others - probably not. Â But I would rather not play "I haven't seen" games. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Sven Van Caekenberghe [sven(a)beta9.be] >>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:02 AM >>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 >>> >>> On 24 Feb 2012, at 11:12, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>> >>>> There is a tracker entry, but please understand it's the middle of the night here and I'm in and out. Â I think Sig will know the details more off the top, otherwise I'll search later. Â Would you rather I say nothing about a known bug? >>> >>> I can't find anything with Schwab, Bill or Wilhelm in any issue ever in http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list (there are a handful that are more than half a year old, magically you even received help). I read this mailing list all the time, I can't remember seeing a concrete, reproduceable bug report. Please, correct me if I am wrong. >>> >>> Some, like Stef, even took the trouble of trying to load some of the stuff that was causing you trouble, only to report that it worked for them. >>> >>> I and many others ask for help and report problems here all the time. It is incredible how people spring up all the time to help others with both simple and deep problems. It is often so that the one reporting a problem did something wrong himself, I am guilty here as well, but even then people took the trouble to look and give some of their valuable time. >>> >>> The way you ask the question makes a huge difference: provide details, make it reproduceable, don't include negative stuff. >>> >>> I'll make you a promise: I'll give you some of my personal time to try whatever you report next as 'BAD bug, makes 1.3 unstable, rendering the image useless', provided there is a description of how I should do it. >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, I hope you are correct, but my experience says otherwise. I'm going to press on with 1.4, try setting a breakpoint in the snapshot to screen for involuntary saves, and then "certify" the image with a gratuitous error each time after MC activity and before saving. As it is, I keep getting corrupt images that have thins loaded but ultimately are useless because the debugger won't work. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 2:01 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 On 24 February 2012 20:48, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > Fair enough. I find 1..3 to unstable, and the thrashing sounds about right. For now I am trying to carve a home in 1.4. > i don't think it is fair labeling 1.3 unstable. It is quite stable and worked well for me. Now there's always space for improvement, but that's doesn't nullifies the quality of previous hard work of many people (pharo 1.3, 1.2 , 1.1, 1.0 squeak etc..) > Bill > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:37 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 > > On 24 February 2012 16:11, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >> Guys, >> >> I'm hoping Sig will see this an immediately know what is at play. I don't even know if there is a fix, but there appears to be in 1.4. If backporting that to 1.3 is feasible, it should be done. I *think* I know some keywords that might pull his relevant reply (something like "you are a victim of") from the archive. Can't do it right now. >> > i remember it. > And no, i don't see why these changes are needed to be backported to 1.3. > It was : > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5167&q=finalization&colspec… > > and fix which were integrated was about improving a situation with > runaway processes and interrupt handling. > > Now, that bug entry is still not closed, becaue we have to deal with > so-called "finalization trashing", whether it is real issue or not. > As to me, this is not an issue, because finalization "trashing" is a > consequence but not the cause. And since it is better to fix the cause > instead, that what i actually did. > And then during integration i made a mistake in one method (an > overlooking), causing debugger to not open, but it is already > reverted. > All this is related to 1.4 bleeding edge, not to 1.3. > And i personally don't see good reason porting it to 1.3. It is not > critical. We just improved this part a bit. So, the new pharo version > is naturally better than older one.. that's why we got versions > and development process. :) > If we would start backporting everything, then we don't need versions > anymore. We then will just have single image and fight with all > dragons at once. > >> BTW, I took Stef's reply and used it to good effect - might have even figured out why I couldn't build images. All part of testing. If you look, you'll find code of mine in the image. Have you noted some of my responses to help others - probably not. But I would rather not play "I haven't seen" games. >> >> Bill >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Sven Van Caekenberghe [sven(a)beta9.be] >> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:02 AM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3 >> >> On 24 Feb 2012, at 11:12, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> There is a tracker entry, but please understand it's the middle of the night here and I'm in and out. I think Sig will know the details more off the top, otherwise I'll search later. Would you rather I say nothing about a known bug? >> >> I can't find anything with Schwab, Bill or Wilhelm in any issue ever in http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list (there are a handful that are more than half a year old, magically you even received help). I read this mailing list all the time, I can't remember seeing a concrete, reproduceable bug report. Please, correct me if I am wrong. >> >> Some, like Stef, even took the trouble of trying to load some of the stuff that was causing you trouble, only to report that it worked for them. >> >> I and many others ask for help and report problems here all the time. It is incredible how people spring up all the time to help others with both simple and deep problems. It is often so that the one reporting a problem did something wrong himself, I am guilty here as well, but even then people took the trouble to look and give some of their valuable time. >> >> The way you ask the question makes a huge difference: provide details, make it reproduceable, don't include negative stuff. >> >> I'll make you a promise: I'll give you some of my personal time to try whatever you report next as 'BAD bug, makes 1.3 unstable, rendering the image useless', provided there is a description of how I should do it. >> >> Sven >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] change pharo image title

by Eliot Miranda

On Cog: primitiveHostWindowTitle: windowIndex string: titleString <primitive: 'primitiveHostWindowTitle' module: 'HostWindowPlugin'> self primitiveFailed squeakWindowHandle "Answer the native Squeak window handle, presumably a pointer, as an unsigned integer. This value should be usable in native calls to the window manager as well as the argument to primitiveNativeWindowPosition:" <primitive: 'primitiveSqueakWindowHandle' module: 'HostWindowPlugin'> self primitiveFailed squeakWinIndex "What winIndex refers to Squeak's main window?" ^ Smalltalk platformName caseOf: { ['Win32'] -> [ (self squeakWindowHandle) ]. "Window Index is just the handle here." ['unix'] -> [ self squeakWindowHandle ]. "Window Index is just the handle here." ['Mac OS'] -> [ 1 ] "The Host Window plugin shares the window-ref lookup table." } otherwise: [ -1 ]. self primitiveHostWindowTitle: self squeakWinIndex string: 'Yowza!' You can find the full set of primitives in a class called HostWindows in OpenQwaq. You can find the plugin in Cog's HostWindowPlugin On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>wrote: > ** > For Windows only... > > (HostWindowProxy new instVarNamed: #windowHandle put: Win32Window > getFocus; yourself) > windowTitle: aString > > > Would be nice if the HostWindow stuff had some develpment time... > > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Usman Bhatti <usman.bhatti(a)gmail.com> > *To:* Pharo Development <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > *Sent:* Friday, February 24, 2012 7:56 PM > *Subject:* [Pharo-project] change pharo image title > > Is there a way to programmatically set the title of a pharo image on > startup? I grabbed the first level pasteup morph and tried to play with it > but I didn't find the intended method. > > thanx > > usman > > -- best, Eliot

Feb. 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

by Facundo Vozzi

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 5:08 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: > > > > Hi Chris-- > > > >> You showed us this earlier in the week -- and the feedback then was, > >> "voice-over, please." When the music started I hoped perhaps you were > >> going to sing it to us. :) > > > > Heh. Yeah, all this version adds is the ability to watch it > > passively on YouTube. I'm editing a voice-over now for a future version. > > > >> It's nice demo, but so far I've only seen the components that are IN > >> Spoon -- I am interested in seeing an OUTPUT of Spoon. Anything to > >> take me to the next-level of understanding and confidence about it.. > > > > Sure; the next movie I'm making is basically the real presentation, > > with lots of departures from the slides into the live system. I expect > > there will be versions of different lengths for various attention spans, > > and the full version will be about an hour. > > > > I look forward to the 1 hour presentation :-) > > > me too Facu > >

Feb. 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] change pharo image title

by Gary Chambers

For Windows only... (HostWindowProxy new instVarNamed: #windowHandle put: Win32Window getFocus; yourself) windowTitle: aString Would be nice if the HostWindow stuff had some develpment time... Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Usman Bhatti To: Pharo Development Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 7:56 PM Subject: [Pharo-project] change pharo image title Is there a way to programmatically set the title of a pharo image on startup? I grabbed the first level pasteup morph and tried to play with it but I didn't find the intended method. thanx usman

Feb. 24, 2012