February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Re : a problem with a MorphTreeMorph with headers

by Tudor Girba

Thanks for looking into this, Alain! Cheers, Doru On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com>wrote: > Hi Esteban, > I think it is fixed in 1.4. > But I guess you are using 1.3, > I will fix that for 1.3 also, can you open an issue? > Cheers > Alain > > ------------------------------ > *De :* Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > *Ã :* Pharo Development <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr>; > Moose-related development <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch> > *EnvoyÃ© le :* Mardi 31 janvier 2012 23h07 > *Objet :* [Pharo-project] a problem with a MorphTreeMorph with headers > > Hi, > > I have a problem for an application I have: I'm displaying a > MorphTreeMorph who has a header and some columns, problem is when morph has > a horizontal scrollbar and I need to go down, last element on list is > covered by horizontal scroll bar and customer can't see his data. > I need to solve this, but I don't know how, any help will be really > appreciated. > > (the attached image shows my problem) > > thanks, > Esteban > > > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Feb. 1, 2012

[Pharo-project] Re : a problem with a MorphTreeMorph with headers

by Alain Plantec

Hi Esteban, I think it is fixed in 1.4. But I guess you are using 1.3, I will fix that for 1.3 also, can you open an issue? Cheers Alain >________________________________ > DeÂ : Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >ÃÂ : Pharo Development <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr>; Moose-related development <moose-dev(a)iam.unibe.ch> >EnvoyÃ© le : Mardi 31 janvier 2012 23h07 >ObjetÂ : [Pharo-project] a problem with a MorphTreeMorph with headers > > >Hi, > > >I have a problem for an application I have: I'm displaying a MorphTreeMorph who has a header and some columns, problem is when morph has a horizontal scrollbar and I need to go down, last element on list is covered by horizontal scroll bar and customer can't see his data.Â >I need to solve this, but I don't know how, any help will be really appreciated.Â > > >(the attached image shows my problem) > > >thanks, >Esteban > > > > > > > >

Feb. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, Always the idealist, our fearless leader :) I believe Esteban is absolutely correct in what he says. Yes, it is silly to need FFI and alien, but Alien is where callbacks are rumored to work. What was not available was a linux alien library, and I'm hearing that works now. My image is ancient, so a save/build won't kill me, even if it flops. Andreas Raab described a generic callback mechanism for FFI, but from here, it's vapor ware. I'm sure he could do it, but I have other battles to fight, and might fail anyway. If the mechanism Andreas described were to appear, I'd certainly try it. NB can do callbacks (I think), but I'm not Sig... You have the answer planned: live long and prosper with callbacks and threaded calls. I just need *something* that works. Callbacks will do a lot for my gsl wrappers - the bindings aren't much us w/o the carefully coded classes for roots, LM minimizer (curve fitting<g>), FFT and wavelets, etc. I generated what I have pre-underscore fixes, and it needs to be redone (really does....) and callbacks bring the solvers to life in the image vs. dll/so. Anyway, that's what I'm trying to create for us. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 3:25 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found I'm confused. Why do you need alien in addition to FFI. And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible situation. Stef > we are using it with success... installed this way: > > Gofer it > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; > load. > (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load. > > Gofer it > squeaksource: 'Alien'; > package: 'Alien'; > load. > > not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, and when you need a callback you use alien Callback. > > (works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4) > > best, > Esteban > > El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribiÃ³: > >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >> Eliot, >> >> Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples? >> >> Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15 >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found >> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: >> GÃ¶ran, >> >> Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread. >> >> Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Bill >> >> [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. >> >> Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works. >> >> >> [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of GÃ¶ran Krampe [goran(a)krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>] >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM >> To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found >> >> Hi guys! >> >> On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> > On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >> I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me. >> >> >> >> Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it. >> > >> > Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time. >> > >> > I might be wrong, but I fail to find >> > >> > - any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) >> > - any issues you solved >> > - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else >> > - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote >> > >> > I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now. >> > >> > Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions. >> > >> > My 2c, >> >> This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm >> Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long >> before Pharo was even born. ;) >> >> Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based >> on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was >> trying to insult. >> >> General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you >> done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the >> years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't >> shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly >> community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) >> >> regards, GÃ¶ran >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> best, >> Eliot >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> best, >> Eliot >> >

Feb. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I'm confused. Why do you need alien in addition to FFI. And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible situation. Stef > we are using it with success... installed this way: > > Gofer it > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; > load. > (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load. > > Gofer it > squeaksource: 'Alien'; > package: 'Alien'; > load. > > not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, and when you need a callback you use alien Callback. > > (works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4) > > best, > Esteban > > El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribiÃ³: > >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >> Eliot, >> >> Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples? >> >> Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15 >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found >> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: >> GÃ¶ran, >> >> Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread. >> >> Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Bill >> >> [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. >> >> Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works. >> >> >> [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of GÃ¶ran Krampe [goran(a)krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>] >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM >> To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found >> >> Hi guys! >> >> On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> > On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >> I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me. >> >> >> >> Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it. >> > >> > Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time. >> > >> > I might be wrong, but I fail to find >> > >> > - any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) >> > - any issues you solved >> > - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else >> > - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote >> > >> > I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now. >> > >> > Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions. >> > >> > My 2c, >> >> This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm >> Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long >> before Pharo was even born. ;) >> >> Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based >> on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was >> trying to insult. >> >> General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you >> done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the >> years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't >> shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly >> community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) >> >> regards, GÃ¶ran >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> best, >> Eliot >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> best, >> Eliot >> >

Feb. 1, 2012

[Pharo-project] ODBC suggestion

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Hello all, For alien/callbacks, it seems I should leave 1.1.1 behind - it's been a very nice release. Migrate (my answer to not losing code) flagged a few methods. One looks like it might be of wide interest: moduleName "Return the name of the module for this library" SmalltalkImage current platformName = 'Win32' ifTrue: [ ^ 'odbc32' ]. SmalltalkImage current platformName = 'unix' ifTrue: [ ^ 'libodbc.so' ]. ^ self error: 'Don''t know the ODBC library name' What do you think? Stef, this is why I don't like putting the module name in the pragmas. Does that make sense? Bill

Feb. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Collection new

by Milan Mimica

On 31 January 2012 06:18, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In general why is there not a catch all for Stack Overflow and infinite > loops. In general, you just press Alt+., several times. -- Milan Mimica http://sparklet.sf.net

Feb. 1, 2012

[Pharo-project] Cancel or Not the conference? **Important** Pharo Conference Call for Date Feedback

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys So far I got only 4 replies so I will wait until next monday and if there is no more feedback than that we will probably cancel the conference. Stef On Jan 30, 2012, at 3:18 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi guys > > We want to organize a Pharo Conference @ lille around business and companies in May/June 2012. Now we need you to understand what is the best to organize because we have some constraints (like not good access to rooms on saturday). > > Could you reply to the following questions: > > Are you planning to attend: Yes No > > Would you attend two days: Yes No > > Would you like to present something: Yes No > > Would you prefer to have (remove the one you do not like) > - one friday and one saturday > or > - two days during the week would be not a problem. > > Would you like to have > Handons: Yes No > > Business/Experience returns: Yes No > > What are the following dates that are ok for you? > Frid 11- Satur 12 May 2012: Yes No > > Thur 10- Frid 11 May 2012: Yes No > > Mond 14- Tuesd 15 May 2012: Yes No > > Tuesd 15- Wedn 16 May 2012: Yes No > > Thur 24 - Frid 25 May 2012: Yes No > > Frid 25- Satur 26 May 2012: Yes No > > > Stef > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Feb. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] a problem with a MorphTreeMorph with headers

by Guido Stepken

Luckily there is a vertical scrollbar to uncover the last element. Can't see any problem to be solved.... :-( Have fun! Am 31.01.2012 23:07 schrieb "Esteban Lorenzano" <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > > I have a problem for an application I have: I'm displaying a > MorphTreeMorph who has a header and some columns, problem is when morph has > a horizontal scrollbar and I need to go down, last element on list is > covered by horizontal scroll bar and customer can't see his data. > I need to solve this, but I don't know how, any help will be really > appreciated. > > (the attached image shows my problem) > > thanks, > Esteban > > > >

Feb. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Command Line Interface using FFI

by S Krish

I cant get the stdin on FileStream to work. Just blocks irrespective of what I do in sending characters with enter.. or any other trials .. will check a little more On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:06 AM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 4:10 AM, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet(a)gmail.com>wrote: > >> On 29 January 2012 21:11, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > I've spent a few hours playing with Alien+FFI and I did want to have a >> > Command line interface to play and use as a quick browser. >> >> This is something I'd like to have as a part of Coral. >> >> What's your opinion on the FFI-libc approach compared to OSProcess? I >> was actually thinking of doing something like that using NativeBoost >> :) >> > > There is a third option which just uses the stdio streams in > StandardFileStream. this has been working in the Cog VMs for some time now. > > >> > Gofer it >> > squeaksource: 'CLInterface'; >> > package: 'ConfigurationOfCLInterface'; >> > load. >> > >> > ConfigurationOfCLInterface load. >> > >> > >> > To play with it write a script, for example startCLI.st, with the >> following: >> > >> > CLInterface start >> > >> > >> > >> > And then, from the command line >> > >> > CogVM -vm-display-null <image> startCLI.st >> > >> > >> > What it does support? >> > - executes smalltalk expressions >> > - handles the errors and shows them into the stdout (so it does not >> explode >> > :P) >> > - stores variables as a workspace >> > Since I used standard C functions (fgets and printf only) this should >> work >> > on every platform from scratch (having a VM with FFI working, of >> course)... >> > >> > The problems I've ran so far: >> > - blocking FFI blocks the vm. I've not tried yet to use threads >> through FFI >> > (and I don't know if it works. Does it?). But It should be great to >> start >> > a headless seaside server with a command line :/. >> > >> > Ok, it's a very simple thing, but it allows to execute a expression >> from a >> > remote server via ssh without doing much :). >> > >> > Guille >> >> >> >> -- >> Damien Pollet >> type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >> >> > > > -- > best, > Eliot > >

Feb. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Ok. I'll have a poke at it. Thanks, Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Esteban Lorenzano [estebanlm(a)gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 6:02 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found we are using it with success... installed this way: Gofer it squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; load. (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load. Gofer it squeaksource: 'Alien'; package: 'Alien'; load. not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, and when you need a callback you use alien Callback. (works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4) best, Esteban El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribiÃ³: On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Eliot, Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples? Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15 Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com<mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com>] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu><mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>>> wrote: GÃ¶ran, Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread. Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere. Best regards, Bill [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works. [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>>] on behalf of GÃ¶ran Krampe [goran(a)krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se><mailto:goran@krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>>] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found Hi guys! On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me. >> >> Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it. > > Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time. > > I might be wrong, but I fail to find > > - any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) > - any issues you solved > - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else > - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote > > I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now. > > Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions. > > My 2c, This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long before Pharo was even born. ;) Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was trying to insult. General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) regards, GÃ¶ran -- best, Eliot -- best, Eliot

Feb. 1, 2012