February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] where is the config?

by Frank Shearar

On 2 February 2012 16:17, Camillo Bruni <camillo.bruni(a)inria.fr> wrote: > is there somewhere in a hidden place a ConfigurationOfRB? > > if yes why is it not in http://squeaksource.com/rb? Do you mean perhaps ConfigurationOfRefactoringBrowser in http://www.squeaksource.com/MetacelloRepository ? frank

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] keeping up with lively-kernel (morphic)

by Marcus Denker

On Feb 2, 2012, at 6:31 PM, dimitris chloupis wrote: > Well if there is a widget that can be easily ported and be useful to people I dont see any harm in taking an interest in other Morphic implementations. > No, you don't understand. Morphic is not a code base that is compatible. It's a pattern. Like MVC. Imagine someone requesting form Smalltlak to work with, what, Ruby on Rails because they are the ones that "define the future of MVC". Patterns are abstract ideas. Of course you can be inspired by ideas. But that is not "working together". Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] keeping up with lively-kernel (morphic)

by dimitris chloupis

Well if there is a widget that can be easily ported and be useful to people I dont see any harm in taking an interest in other Morphic implementations.Â But then maybe that is "forbiden fruit" for Pharo, I came from Python were we "steal" all sort of ideas from C/C++ in some case the python libraries are nothing more than direct ports (see wxPython from wxWindows) of C/C++ libraries. Though I find that hard to believe, that Pharo has such issues. If Lively Kernel Morphic can offer some good ideas for Pharo Morphic, I dont think its a bad idea to keep an open eye and mind.Â Of course Morphic should not be the only influence of Pharo Morphic , but I feel its easier to implement and port something based on the same architecture even on a diffirent structure.Â Well at least for my port of Morphic to OpenGL will keep a close eye on LK Morphic and anything else can infuse good ideas to my project.Â ________________________________ From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 19:17 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] keeping up with lively-kernel (morphic) > what ? since when morphic is the future of "others" ? > > I am confused, does not Pharo use morphic ? Does not Pharo care for mophic ? Pharo uses Morphic. Now we will not make it compatible with the one of Self or javascript. > I am new with Pharo but I have not seen any other GUI than Morphic , distributed as standard by Pharo unless I am missing something here ? Am I ? > > From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; lenglish5(a)cox.net > Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 19:03 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] keeping up with lively-kernel (morphic) > > > On Feb 1, 2012, at 11:27 PM, Lawson English wrote: > > > Does Pharo use Morphic? Is there a conscious decision on people's parts to NOT try and keep the various flavors of Morphic compatible, or is it just "too hard," or that people don't care, or think it irrelevant? > > > > Some graphical frameworks manage to keep a centralized core of classes because they are created by one group of people for one language and then bindings ported to other languages. Morphic is unique in that it is being [re]implemented in 3 different languages: Self, Smalltalk (with several variations within that branch) and JavaScript. Is there any way, or even desire, to coordinate between the differing versions? > > are you serious? > Please can we continue to build our future instead of talking about the one of others? > > Stef > >

Feb. 2, 2012

[Pharo-project] A couple more questions on traits

by Markus Rother

Hi, I just got done reading the paper "Traits: Composable Units of Behaviour". In general, I think the concept is massively underrated and has tons of potential. I can recommend the paper to anyone to make up one's mind about inheritance issues. I did not yet try to use traits in Pharo, myself. But Two things came to my mind that were not quite clear from your paper, Stef and other authors in case you are following this list... * Why aren't getter methods defined within a trait? Imho that would make a lot of sense. If you apply a trait, but don't like the getter/setter, then override it - no big deal. Why don't you include them as default in the trait? * When do unresolved conflicts error? Runtime vs. compile-time? Thanks, and keep it up. Markus

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] keeping up with lively-kernel (morphic)

by Marcus Denker

On Feb 1, 2012, at 11:27 PM, Lawson English wrote: > Does Pharo use Morphic? Is there a conscious decision on people's parts to NOT try and keep the various flavors of Morphic compatible, or is it just "too hard," or that people don't care, or think it irrelevant? > So there are multiple problems: 1) Morphic is not and API or a codebase but and idea (or principle) And the question is even: a good one? In the current state for sure not. For sure it's instantiation depends *a lot* on the language model you have. 2) Hard problems get harder if you add players. It is already nearly impossible to change Pharo alone. Add Squeak (with the stated goal to never ever remove etoys..), that pair to keep compatible is already impossible. Add another *language* and we are speaking about something that is just not possible 3) compatibility across languages means using only the comman denominator. Feature wise. Graphics subsystem, alone that. But then language. Imagine we add the Slots to Pharo. Then morphic gets much simpler: no morph extension, all bit values will be bit slots (compact), properties will be dictonary slots. So now: Squeak will not have that. Self will not have that. So does that mean we can never use new abstraction for our base frameworks? How things are done in Self vs. Javascript is completely different. You can not at all share a framwork in any meaningful sense across these languages. And then add Smalltalk. (Ah, and as we are on it, VA, VW, STX, GNU Smalltalk of course, too!). Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] keeping up with lively-kernel (morphic)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> what ? since when morphic is the future of "others" ? > > I am confused, does not Pharo use morphic ? Does not Pharo care for mophic ? Pharo uses Morphic. Now we will not make it compatible with the one of Self or javascript. > I am new with Pharo but I have not seen any other GUI than Morphic , distributed as standard by Pharo unless I am missing something here ? Am I ? > > From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; lenglish5(a)cox.net > Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 19:03 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] keeping up with lively-kernel (morphic) > > > On Feb 1, 2012, at 11:27 PM, Lawson English wrote: > > > Does Pharo use Morphic? Is there a conscious decision on people's parts to NOT try and keep the various flavors of Morphic compatible, or is it just "too hard," or that people don't care, or think it irrelevant? > > > > Some graphical frameworks manage to keep a centralized core of classes because they are created by one group of people for one language and then bindings ported to other languages. Morphic is unique in that it is being [re]implemented in 3 different languages: Self, Smalltalk (with several variations within that branch) and JavaScript. Is there any way, or even desire, to coordinate between the differing versions? > > are you serious? > Please can we continue to build our future instead of talking about the one of others? > > Stef > >

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Building a developer community

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

laurent I will be there the saturday! Stef On Feb 2, 2012, at 4:26 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > Thank you. May be some people want to join on Pharo sprint at FOSDEM to improve the "getting started with Pharo experience" > > Laurent > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Laurent > > I've found a way to simulate what you suggested. Here's what you do: > > Instead of inserting a link element into the page, you insert a code element, make it executable and then paste this code into the code editor: > > <script type="text/javascript"> > /*<![CDATA[*/ > function thanks() { > window.setTimeout(function(){ > window.open("++path/to/thankyoupage (from site root)++", "_self")}, > 3000 > ); > } > /*]]>*/ > </script> > > <a title="download" class="open" href="++URL to download++" onclick="thanks()">++Download now!++</a> > > This will trigger the download on click and will then redirect to the thank you page (replace stuff inside ++ ++). Note however, that I had to use an arbitrary delay of three seconds since the download will not start if the response for the thank you page returns earlier than the one to the download. That means, that it is possible for the thank you page to be displayed without the download ever having happened. > > Be sure to make the thank you page hidden, so that it doesn't appear in the menu. > > Hit me up again if you have any questions. > > BTW: I'll see if we can make this kind of redirect an actual feature in cmsbox. I like the idea but it's much too complicated for the user to do at the moment. > > Cheers, > Max > > > On 02.02.2012, at 10:08, laurent laffont wrote: > >> http://www.slideshare.net/kohsuke/building-developer-community >> >> Slide 9 looks interesting (Thank you for downloading page). How can I do that with cmsbox / pharo website ? >> >> Laurent Laffont > >

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] keeping up with lively-kernel (morphic)

by dimitris chloupis

what ? since when morphic is the future of "others" ?Â I am confused, does not Pharo use morphic ? Does not Pharo care for mophic ?Â I am new with Pharo but I have not seen any other GUI than Morphic , distributed as standard by Pharo unless I am missing something here ? Am I ? ________________________________ From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; lenglish5(a)cox.net Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 19:03 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] keeping up with lively-kernel (morphic) On Feb 1, 2012, at 11:27 PM, Lawson English wrote: > Does Pharo use Morphic? Is there a conscious decision on people's parts to NOT try and keep the various flavors of Morphic compatible, or is it just "too hard," or that people don't care, or think it irrelevant? > > Some graphical frameworks manage to keep a centralized core of classes because they are created by one group of people for one language and then bindings ported to other languages. Morphic is unique in that it is being [re]implemented in 3 different languages: Self, Smalltalk (with several variations within that branch) and JavaScript. Is there any way, or even desire, to coordinate between the differing versions? are you serious? Please can we continue to build our future instead of talking about the one of others? Stef

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] where is the config?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 2, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > is there somewhere in a hidden place a ConfigurationOfRB? PharoRB? > > if yes why is it not in http://squeaksource.com/rb? > > best > cami >

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Building a developer community

by Max Leske

Sure. Just use an onLoad() with setTimeout() on that page and you're good. Max On 02.02.2012, at 17:58, Herby VojÄÃk wrote: > Hi, > > wouldn't linking directly to thank you page which refreshes to downloaded file (as in sourceforge) be safer? It can show "download should start asap" for first three seconds and then show the "Thank you" content if you want it so, but download should start in any circumstances (you can even put the "if download did not start, click here" there if you want to be sure). > > Herby > > Max Leske wrote: >> Hi Laurent >> >> I've found a way to simulate what you suggested. Here's what you do: >> >> Instead of inserting a link element into the page, you insert a code >> element, make it executable and then paste this code into the code editor: >> >> <script type="text/javascript"> >> /*<![CDATA[*/ >> function thanks() { >> window.setTimeout(function(){ >> window.open("++path/to/thankyoupage (from site root)++", "_self")}, >> 3000 >> ); >> } >> /*]]>*/ >> </script> >> >> <a title="download" class="open" href="++URL to download++" >> onclick="thanks()">++Download now!++</a> >> >> This will trigger the download on click and will then redirect to the >> thank you page (replace stuff inside ++ ++). Note however, that I had to >> use an arbitrary delay of three seconds since the download will not >> start if the response for the thank you page returns earlier than the >> one to the download. That means, that it is possible for the thank you >> page to be displayed without the download ever having happened. >> >> Be sure to make the thank you page hidden, so that it doesn't appear in >> the menu. >> >> Hit me up again if you have any questions. >> >> BTW: I'll see if we can make this kind of redirect an actual feature in >> cmsbox. I like the idea but it's much too complicated for the user to do >> at the moment. >> >> Cheers, >> Max >> >> >> On 02.02.2012, at 10:08, laurent laffont wrote: >> >>> http://www.slideshare.net/kohsuke/building-developer-community >>> >>> Slide 9 looks interesting (Thank you for downloading page). How can I >>> do that with cmsbox / pharo website ? >>> >>> Laurent Laffont >> >

Feb. 2, 2012