February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, If you're bored, it would be nice to have confirmation one way or the other. I might have broken something with some of my changes?? However, most of that loads _after_ the staples, among which Citezen is prominent - thanks for it! Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:11 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? On Feb 2, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Hello all, > > I am making progress toward building a 1.3 image, but I am getting a hung system when loading (#loadNoWeb) Citezen. Is this a known problem? We got a problem with 1.4 and we made the error to change the 1.3 working version :( Now the last time I checked (I can retry) it was loading in 1.3 and 1.4 Stef > > Bill >

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Shared Smalltalk Workspaces

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

fun :) It worked :) Stef On Feb 2, 2012, at 9:50 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > Hi, > > I hacked together a little web service called 'Shared Smalltalk Workspaces'. > > http://ws.stfx.eu > > It is basically a pastebin for Smalltalk, a way easily to share Smalltalk workspaces. > > Follow the link above for the details. > > There is a special 'Getting Started' workspace with instructions > > http://ws.stfx.eu/1WS4U > > Here are 2 more examples > > http://ws.stfxeu/8O58R5KF1FLQ > http://ws.stfxeu/8O58TU6FNFL6 > > Enjoy ! > > Sven > > PS: Of course, it is built and served using Pharo 1.4 > > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > http://stfx.eu > Smalltalk is the Red Pill > > > > >

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Shared Smalltalk Workspaces

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 2, 2012, at 9:50 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > Hi, > > I hacked together a little web service called 'Shared Smalltalk Workspaces'. > > http://ws.stfx.eu > > It is basically a pastebin for Smalltalk, a way easily to share Smalltalk workspaces. thanks! I learned something new again. > Follow the link above for the details. > > There is a special 'Getting Started' workspace with instructions > > http://ws.stfx.eu/1WS4U > > Here are 2 more examples > > http://ws.stfxeu/8O58R5KF1FLQ > http://ws.stfxeu/8O58TU6FNFL6 they do not work for me. > > Enjoy ! > > Sven > > PS: Of course, it is built and served using Pharo 1.4 > > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > http://stfx.eu > Smalltalk is the Red Pill > > > > >

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 2, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:25 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > I'm confused. > Why do you need alien in addition to FFI. > > Because I implemented callbacks in Newspeak's Alien system and then added support to FFI to accept Alien's callbacks. Replicating the Alien callback system in FFI can be done, but it'll be the same Alien scheme under the covers. So why bother renaming all the image support when its already there? yes but why not making alien part of FFI and not forcing people to load two packages if this is part of the functionality? It just add more confusion. Stef > > And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible situation. > > Stef > > > we are using it with success... installed this way: > > > > Gofer it > > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > > package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; > > load. > > (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load. > > > > Gofer it > > squeaksource: 'Alien'; > > package: 'Alien'; > > load. > > > > not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, and when you need a callback you use alien Callback. > > > > (works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4) > > > > best, > > Esteban > > > > El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribiÃ³: > > > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > >> Eliot, > >> > >> Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples? > >> > >> Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15 > >> > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com] > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM > >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: > >> GÃ¶ran, > >> > >> Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread. > >> > >> Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. > >> > >> Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works. > >> > >> > >> [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of GÃ¶ran Krampe [goran(a)krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>] > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM > >> To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > >> > >> Hi guys! > >> > >> On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> > On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> >> I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me. > >> >> > >> >> Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it. > >> > > >> > Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time. > >> > > >> > I might be wrong, but I fail to find > >> > > >> > - any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) > >> > - any issues you solved > >> > - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else > >> > - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote > >> > > >> > I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now. > >> > > >> > Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions. > >> > > >> > My 2c, > >> > >> This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm > >> Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long > >> before Pharo was even born. ;) > >> > >> Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based > >> on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was > >> trying to insult. > >> > >> General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you > >> done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the > >> years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't > >> shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly > >> community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) > >> > >> regards, GÃ¶ran > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> best, > >> Eliot > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> best, > >> Eliot > >> > > > > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot >

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Question regarding LinkedList collect:

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks Nicolas could you have a look at the prime number generation issue? Stef On Feb 2, 2012, at 8:30 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > I've created http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5237 and > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5238 > > Nicolas > > 2012/2/2 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: >> Sure, but this leaves plenty of room to Andreas for improving LinkedList. >> For example, collect: has been improved, but what about select: ? >> >> { >> [(Array withAll: (1 to: 1000)) select: [:e | e even]] bench. >> [(LinkedList withAll: (1 to: 1000)) select: [:e | e even]] bench. >> }. >> -> #('7,240 per second.' '64.3 per second.') >> >> Also, tell why ((1 to: 10) as: LinkedList) isEmpty, or correct it... >> >> Your contributions are welcome, via >> http://www.pharo-project.org/community/issue-tracking >> (I hope the page is up to date). >> >> Nicolas >> >> 2012/2/2 Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com>: >>> Henrik Johansen wrote: >>>> >>>> On Feb 2, 2012, at 10:34 AM, Andreas Haufler (scireum GmbH) wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I'm a Pharo newbie with some knowledge about Smalltalk. Surfing through >>>>> the code base I stumbled over the implementation of LinkedList collect: - >>>>> Your're right, there is none, it's inherited by SequenceableCollection. >>>>> Looking through this code, I discovered that it builds a LinkedList of the >>>>> same size and then uses the at: and at:put: selector to copy the transformed >>>>> values form the first list to the second. >>>>> >>>>> Knowing that at: and at:put: have O(n) complexity for linked lists, this >>>>> makes collect: an O(n^2) operation. On the other hand, this could easily >>>>> changed into O(n) by implementing collect: for LinkedList: >>>>> >>>>> collect: aBlock "Evaluate aBlock with each of the receiver's >>>>> elements as the argument. Collect the resulting values into a >>>>> collection like the receiver. Answer the new collection." >>>>> >>>>> | newCollection | >>>>> newCollection := self species new. >>>>> self do: >>>>> [:val | >>>>> newCollection add: (aBlock value: val)]. >>>>> ^ newCollection >>>>> >>>>> I profiled this using: >>>>> x := LinkedList new. >>>>> 1 to: 10000 do: [:n |x add: n]. >>>>> TimeProfileBrowser onBlock: [ x collect: [:i | i] ] >>>>> >>>>> and saw a improvement of: 795msec (old) vs. 6msec (new). >>>>> >>>>> I wonder therefore, if LinkedList is just seldomly used (in Java i.e. >>>>> nearly all lists use ArrayList nowadays)? Or would the system benefit from >>>>> this improvement? I could then look through the other methods >>>>> (collect:from:to: et. al.) and provide a patch. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> best regards + thank's for creating such a beautiful system >>>>> Andreas Haufler >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It does suffer from being a subclass of SequenceableCollection where >>>> default implementations assume O(1) at: and at:put: implementationsâ¦ >>>> You're right it's not often used (at least not polymorphical to normal >>>> collections), and as such it's a tradeoff between keeping the implementation >>>> small (by using slow, but working super implementations), and reimplementing >>>> methods efficiently. >>>> >>>> In this case though, it seems Alain already noticed, and collect: has >>>> already been reimplemented efficiently in 1.4 >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Henry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Henrik, >>> Please note that I've only picked this as an example since it occurred >>> coincidently with my having just read the insightful slides of the >>> "[Pharo-project] Building a developer community" thread - but in light of >>> that... >>> >>> While your answer was good technically, it was not as good as it could be >>> for "building Pharo's developer community". Here a "visitor" with >>> reasonable Smalltalk ability extended a helping hand. The response returned >>> was a polite "we are doing good on our own thanks" - which is fine except >>> except it does not draw them in. An alternative might have included "its >>> already been done but come and have a look at it. It would be great if you >>> could help out with (other stuff)" >>> >>> Now some disclaimers... >>> * I did stretch the example since Alain is a third party whom you can't just >>> throw Andreas at unannounced. >>> * There has been little time for anyone else to answer >>> * I don't mean to posts should be constrained by kid gloves. >>> >>> Hopefully though this is a useful perspective to mix in with everything else >>> important. >>> warm regards, >>> Ben >>> >

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 2, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Hello all, > > I am making progress toward building a 1.3 image, but I am getting a hung system when loading (#loadNoWeb) Citezen. Is this a known problem? We got a problem with 1.4 and we made the error to change the 1.3 working version :( Now the last time I checked (I can retry) it was loading in 1.3 and 1.4 Stef > > Bill >

Feb. 2, 2012

[Pharo-project] [ANN] Shared Smalltalk Workspaces

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi, I hacked together a little web service called 'Shared Smalltalk Workspaces'. http://ws.stfx.eu It is basically a pastebin for Smalltalk, a way easily to share Smalltalk workspaces. Follow the link above for the details. There is a special 'Getting Started' workspace with instructions http://ws.stfx.eu/1WS4U Here are 2 more examples http://ws.stfxeu/8O58R5KF1FLQ http://ws.stfxeu/8O58TU6FNFL6 Enjoy ! Sven PS: Of course, it is built and served using Pharo 1.4 -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Shared Smalltalk Workspaces

by Edgar J. De Cleene

On 2/2/12 7:24 PM, "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: > Hmm, that should have been > > http://ws.stfx.eu/8O58R5KF1FLQ > http://ws.stfx.eu/8O58TU6FNFL6 > > Sorry. Now work !! And all do miskates :=) Edgar

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Shared Smalltalk Workspaces

by Edgar J. De Cleene

On 2/2/12 6:50 PM, "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: > Hi, > > I hacked together a little web service called 'Shared Smalltalk Workspaces'. > > http://ws.stfx.eu > > It is basically a pastebin for Smalltalk, a way easily to share Smalltalk > workspaces. > > Follow the link above for the details. > > There is a special 'Getting Started' workspace with instructions > > http://ws.stfx.eu/1WS4U Nice concept > Here are 2 more examples > > http://ws.stfxeu/8O58R5KF1FLQ > http://ws.stfxeu/8O58TU6FNFL6 This two is not working now > Enjoy ! > > Sven > > PS: Of course, it is built and served using Pharo 1.4 > > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > http://stfx.eu > Smalltalk is the Red Pill Continue the good work, thanks Edgar

Feb. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by Eliot Miranda

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:25 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > I'm confused. > Why do you need alien in addition to FFI. > Because I implemented callbacks in Newspeak's Alien system and then added support to FFI to accept Alien's callbacks. Replicating the Alien callback system in FFI can be done, but it'll be the same Alien scheme under the covers. So why bother renaming all the image support when its already there? > And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible situation. > > Stef > > > we are using it with success... installed this way: > > > > Gofer it > > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > > package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; > > load. > > (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load. > > > > Gofer it > > squeaksource: 'Alien'; > > package: 'Alien'; > > load. > > > > not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can > subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, > and when you need a callback you use alien Callback. > > > > (works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4) > > > > best, > > Esteban > > > > El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribiÃ³: > > > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K < > bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > >> Eliot, > >> > >> Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for > examples? > >> > >> Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See > http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15 > >> > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [ > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [ > eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com] > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM > >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K < > bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: > >> GÃ¶ran, > >> > >> Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to > contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the > wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being > at the base of thread. > >> > >> Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust > everywhere. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, > but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. > >> > >> Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous > callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate > image-level code but the VM has support and it works. > >> > >> > >> [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> [ > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto: > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of GÃ¶ran Krampe [ > goran(a)krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>] > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM > >> To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto: > pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > >> > >> Hi guys! > >> > >> On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> > On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> >> I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying > off the handle, not me. > >> >> > >> >> Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. > Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to > improve it. > >> > > >> > Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on > SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their > free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their > software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything > unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their > users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if > one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time. > >> > > >> > I might be wrong, but I fail to find > >> > > >> > - any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) > >> > - any issues you solved > >> > - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere > else > >> > - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that > you wrote > >> > > >> > I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than > what you are doing now. > >> > > >> > Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to > the community, we are all using software written by others in the same > spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions. > >> > > >> > My 2c, > >> > >> This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm > >> Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long > >> before Pharo was even born. ;) > >> > >> Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based > >> on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was > >> trying to insult. > >> > >> General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you > >> done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the > >> years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't > >> shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly > >> community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) > >> > >> regards, GÃ¶ran > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> best, > >> Eliot > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> best, > >> Eliot > >> > > > > > -- best, Eliot

Feb. 2, 2012