February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, My sleep schedule is whacked up, so I need to take a break. Bottom line, the image hangs on pretty much any attempt to load the configuration. I'll try again later. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 4:02 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? in 1.4 (ConfigurationOfCitezen project version: #stable) load: { 'NoWeb'}. works loads 0.7 in 1.3 (ConfigurationOfCitezen project version: #stable) load: { 'NoWeb'}. works loads 0.7 So let us know.

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, I'm rebuilding the image. Any attempt to load config of citezen was hanging the image. More to come. Thanks for the incantations. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 4:02 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? in 1.4 (ConfigurationOfCitezen project version: #stable) load: { 'NoWeb'}. works loads 0.7 in 1.3 (ConfigurationOfCitezen project version: #stable) load: { 'NoWeb'}. works loads 0.7 So let us know.

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About linkedlist

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

what is the diff between arrayList and vectorList ? I have plenty of other questions. :) Stef On Feb 3, 2012, at 9:26 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > See below for an alternative collection implementation: > > http://jenkins.lukas-renggli.ch/job/Container/ > > Also contains a nice double-linked-list, as well as many other > standard containers that are missing in standard Smalltalk. > > Lukas > > On 3 February 2012 07:52, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Hi >> >> I was thinking that linkedList is really not to be used by something else than the scheduler (remember the >> problem we got with change == into something else). >> >> So I was wondering if it would not be simpler/safer to design a generalPurpose fast/robust LinkedList too? >> >> Stef > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch >

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About linkedlist

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Lukas this is cool. Do you have a list of class/comment? Stef On Feb 3, 2012, at 9:26 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > See below for an alternative collection implementation: > > http://jenkins.lukas-renggli.ch/job/Container/ > > Also contains a nice double-linked-list, as well as many other > standard containers that are missing in standard Smalltalk. > > Lukas > > On 3 February 2012 07:52, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Hi >> >> I was thinking that linkedList is really not to be used by something else than the scheduler (remember the >> problem we got with change == into something else). >> >> So I was wondering if it would not be simpler/safer to design a generalPurpose fast/robust LinkedList too? >> >> Stef > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch >

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

in 1.4 (ConfigurationOfCitezen project version: #stable) load: { 'NoWeb'}. works loads 0.7 in 1.3 (ConfigurationOfCitezen project version: #stable) load: { 'NoWeb'}. works loads 0.7 So let us know.

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About linkedlist

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 03 Feb 2012, at 09:26, Lukas Renggli wrote: > See below for an alternative collection implementation: > > http://jenkins.lukas-renggli.ch/job/Container/ > > Also contains a nice double-linked-list, as well as many other > standard containers that are missing in standard Smalltalk. Lukas, Very interesting ! I already saw that you were working on this ;-) Do you have some kind of high level description of Container explaining the rationale, ideas and approach. It is one thing to browse the code, but the why/how is important as a guide. It seems that although you introduce iterators, they are less annoying then expected, which is great. Also, a certain level of backwards compatibility seems to be present, looking at message names. Sven

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About linkedlist

by Lukas Renggli

See below for an alternative collection implementation: http://jenkins.lukas-renggli.ch/job/Container/ Also contains a nice double-linked-list, as well as many other standard containers that are missing in standard Smalltalk. Lukas On 3 February 2012 07:52, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi > > I was thinking that linkedList is really not to be used by something else than the scheduler (remember the > problem we got with change == into something else). > > So I was wondering if it would not be simpler/safer to design a generalPurpose fast/robust LinkedList too? > > Stef -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] pdf4smalltalk Re: pharo vision

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 2, 2012, at 10:50 PM, Paul DeBruicker wrote: > Just wanted to make sure you guys were aware that Bob Nemec is making a > PDFReport package for VisualWorks that he > intends to present at STIC and port to other smalltalks: > > http://smalltalk-bob.blogspot.com/2012/01/pdf-report-and-law-of-demeter.html > > So maybe there's an opportunity for collaboration. Yes the pharo community should be interested. Now our local plates are rather full. I should say that I regularly pushed christian to open source his project. Stef > > > > Ben Coman wrote >> >> It took some hunting but I finally found the source located here... >> http://pdf4smalltalk.origo.ethz.ch/wiki/store_access >> >> with MIT License specified here... >> http://pdf4smalltalk.origo.ethz.ch/ >> >> That looks quite promising. >> >> cheers, Ben >> >> >> > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/pharo-vision-tp4340345p4352946.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 2, 2012, at 11:43 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Eliot, > > Lazy is not a word I would use - it *is* a lot of work. I'm closing in on a 1.3 image. Once it's up (this includes a Seaside 2.8->3.0 move), I'll try alien callbacks w/ GSL. It won't happen overnight, but it will be nice to be able to define functions in Smalltalk (thinking roots, LM, etc.). > > Perhaps Spock could start out as a facade to make things *appear* unified?? exactly I do not care to know that there are alien and ffi. As a user I want something working and that I can use simply. > > Bill > > > > > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 5:27 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Stef, > > Some thoughts: > > (1) I thought Spock would be the unifier. Cool name as a bonus. > > (2) FFI can do callbacks, it's just not wrapped. Andreas described how to do it, but it's not user friendly. > > (3) I suspect the reason for the two packages is pragmatism, but I can't speak for those among us who are adept at the vm side of things. Think of me as an applied mathematician and biomedical engineer. I write nice code, but have my limits. > > try laziness ;) its all work. I haven't found the time to combine them. > > > (4) a unified approach would be most welcome. > > Bill > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:13 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > > On Feb 2, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:25 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > I'm confused. > > Why do you need alien in addition to FFI. > > > > Because I implemented callbacks in Newspeak's Alien system and then added support to FFI to accept Alien's callbacks. Replicating the Alien callback system in FFI can be done, but it'll be the same Alien scheme under the covers. So why bother renaming all the image support when its already there? > > yes but why not making alien part of FFI and not forcing people to load two packages if this is part of the functionality? > It just add more confusion. > > > Stef > > > > > And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible situation. > > > > Stef > > > > > we are using it with success... installed this way: > > > > > > Gofer it > > > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > > > package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; > > > load. > > > (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load. > > > > > > Gofer it > > > squeaksource: 'Alien'; > > > package: 'Alien'; > > > load. > > > > > > not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can subclass ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, and when you need a callback you use alien Callback. > > > > > > (works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4) > > > > > > best, > > > Esteban > > > > > > El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribiÃ³: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > > >> Eliot, > > >> > > >> Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples? > > >> > > >> Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15 > > >> > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com] > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM > > >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: > > >> GÃ¶ran, > > >> > > >> Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being at the base of thread. > > >> > > >> Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust everywhere. > > >> > > >> Best regards, > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >> [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. > > >> > > >> Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate image-level code but the VM has support and it works. > > >> > > >> > > >> [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________________ > > >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of GÃ¶ran Krampe [goran(a)krampe.se<mailto:goran@krampe.se>] > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM > > >> To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > > >> > > >> Hi guys! > > >> > > >> On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > >> > On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > >> >> I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying off the handle, not me. > > >> >> > > >> >> Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to improve it. > > >> > > > >> > Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the time. > > >> > > > >> > I might be wrong, but I fail to find > > >> > > > >> > - any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) > > >> > - any issues you solved > > >> > - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else > > >> > - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you wrote > > >> > > > >> > I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than what you are doing now. > > >> > > > >> > Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to the community, we are all using software written by others in the same spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions. > > >> > > > >> > My 2c, > > >> > > >> This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm > > >> Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long > > >> before Pharo was even born. ;) > > >> > > >> Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based > > >> on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was > > >> trying to insult. > > >> > > >> General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you > > >> done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the > > >> years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't > > >> shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly > > >> community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) > > >> > > >> regards, GÃ¶ran > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> best, > > >> Eliot > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> best, > > >> Eliot > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > best, > > Eliot > > > > > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] keeping up with lively-kernel (morphic)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 2, 2012, at 11:21 PM, Helene Bilbo wrote: > > Marcus Denker-4 wrote >> >> So there are multiple problems: >> >> 1) Morphic is not and API or a codebase but and idea (or principle) >> And the question is even: a good one? In the current state for sure not. >> For sure it's instantiation depends *a lot* on the language >> model you have. >> > > I think exactly the Morphic ideas (or principles) (not the squeak morphic > code or the missing documentation or a morphic implementation in javascript) > were so very charming, elegant and intriguing. Directly manipulating, > combining Objects/Morphs and - as i read in this paper about LivelyKernel > [1] - serializing them. > > But as i understood the Pharo Vision Document, Pharo is more aimed at > business customers and therefor strives for being similar to other business > oriented smalltalks rather than becoming Squeak with cleaner and smaller > code and better documentation (which would have been also a very nice goal)? Pharo wants to be a platform where people can innovate so if you want to innovate at the UI level (for example Gaucho) you need a good and flexible infrastructure. > > [1] > http://www.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/publications/media/LinckeKrahnInga… > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/keeping-up-with-lively-kernel-morphic-tp4349125p43530… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Feb. 3, 2012