February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] About linkedlist

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>>> >> >> I wasn't sure what double-ended versus single-ended meant, and found some >> answer at the obvious place [1] >> which mentions Ada.Containers.Vectors is a dynamic array implementation >> which seems consistent with C++ [2]. >> While looking around I happened to bump into [3] which was too much for me >> but may be of interest to anyone playing with data structres. Skimming this >> shows it discussing efficiency of data structures in functional languages >> together with lazy variants of imperative language data structures. Would >> such apply to Smalltalk or is the object-oriented style of Smalltalk >> considered imperative rather than functional? > > The standard tool set - OrderedCollection, Array, etc., are not > functional at all - (myArray at: 1 put: 2) mutates myArray, - so I'd > put them firmly on the "imperative" side of the fence. > > There's nothing stopping one from writing functional data structures - > Levente Uzonyi's written some persistent data structures, as have I. > ("Persistent" means you get new versions of a data structure; if you > hang onto those old versions you can roll back your changes.) Can you explain a bit more Persistent? Tx > http://www.squeaksource.com/Nutcracker/ is my own play area for these > sorts of structures - PersistentUnionFind looks like a functional data > structure while internally massively using side effects. > http://www.lshift.net/blog/2011/12/31/translating-a-persistent-union-find-f… > has references to the original papers I used for my translation. > > Okasaki's book is really good reading, if a bit advanced. It also has > a bunch of stuff beyond just showing functional data structures. (Note > that the red-black tree implementation is _incomplete_ - he leaves > deleting nodes as an exercise for the reader. (See > http://matt.might.net/articles/red-black-delete/)) > > frank > >> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-ended_queue >> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_container_%28C%2B%2B%29 >> [3] http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rwh/theses/okasaki.pdf >> >

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] load testing a database

by Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras

http://jmeter.apache.org/ p.d.: the only thing i know, i've used it to test a webservice On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Do you happen to know methods to approach the problem of testing the > capacity of an application to work with an SQL database? > > In particular, I am interested in simulating concurrent requests > towards this database that would resemble the interaction coming from > the application. > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > >

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: About linkedlist

by Lukas Renggli

>> >>>> what is the diff between arrayList and vectorList ? >> >>> >> >>> ArrayList is double ended (very much like OrderedCollection), >> >>> VectorList is single ended. I was just experimenting to see if it >> >>> makes a difference. >> > >> > ok. I like to see such kind of experiment. >> > Was the name based on something that people use? >> >> No, it is a randomly chosen and meaningless name. I guess in the end >> there will only be one named ArrayList, but I am not sure which >> implementation is better. >> >> Just a note to the VM developers: The primitive >> Array>>#replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: is absolutely central to the >> implementation of efficient collections. While it works well if you >> copy from one array to the other, it is broken if source and >> destination array are the same and the areas overlap. Would it be >> possible to fix this. Even "memmove(void*, void*, size_t)" in C can >> handle this situation correctly. > > The problems are that the primitive is defined to be destructive, and code could be depending on the destructive update behaviour. Â Would it be feasible to use a new primitive that did the right thing in the case of overlap, or do you definitely want to change primitive 105? A new primitive would be prefect. Like this we can even have a nice fallback in case the VM doesn't have the primitive yet. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About linkedlist

by Eliot Miranda

On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 6:18 AM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> what is the diff between arrayList and vectorList ? > >>> > >>> ArrayList is double ended (very much like OrderedCollection), > >>> VectorList is single ended. I was just experimenting to see if it > >>> makes a difference. > > > > ok. I like to see such kind of experiment. > > Was the name based on something that people use? > > No, it is a randomly chosen and meaningless name. I guess in the end > there will only be one named ArrayList, but I am not sure which > implementation is better. > > Just a note to the VM developers: The primitive > Array>>#replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: is absolutely central to the > implementation of efficient collections. While it works well if you > copy from one array to the other, it is broken if source and > destination array are the same and the areas overlap. Would it be > possible to fix this. Even "memmove(void*, void*, size_t)" in C can > handle this situation correctly. > The problems are that the primitive is defined to be destructive, and code could be depending on the destructive update behaviour. Would it be feasible to use a new primitive that did the right thing in the case of overlap, or do you definitely want to change primitive 105? > >>>> Do you have some kind of high level description of Container > explaining the rationale, ideas and approach. > >>> > >>> The core idea is to split iteration from containment; I think a > >>> horrible design mistake in the Smalltalk-80 collections. > > > > I thought about that when I read the Iterator. > > I would not say that this is horrible. I think that for default case > this is not that bad. > > Now when you want to navigate a large graph and control the navigation > then you should have an iterator. > > I think it is pretty horrible. I can think of at least 4 meaningful > ways to iterate over an simple array (for other collections there are > even more ways): > > 1. forward: #do:, #collect:, #select:, #detect:, #inject:into:, ... > 2. forward with index: #keysAndValuesDo:, #collectWithIndex:, > everything else is not possible > 3. backward: #reverseDo:, everything else is not possible > 4. backward with index: not possible > > If you split the iterator into a separate object, suddenly all of this > becomes trivial. A #collect: remains a #collect: no matter if you are > going forward or backward, or with or without index. > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > -- best, Eliot

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

good advice; I'll try it. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Ben Coman [btc(a)openInWorld.com] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 11:26 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > The most recent recommendation I saw from stef was to use 1.3 over 1.4. Does that still hold? > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 9:51 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > > Dale, > > I've been trying to load citezen by any means possible. Are there specific packages and load order that I might try with a manual twist. My hunch is that either: > > (1) MC is hold old info that I don't know how to purge > (2) downloads are going bad, either due to the serve or socket stream woes in the image. > > I admit to messing with some of these things, but I really haven't done that damage yet. I start with fairly benign loads of the various tools I use, and then load my code once the basics are in place. > This is probably telling you how to suck eggs[1], but very generally... when troubleshooting don't _assume_ ANY change is benign. First try the clean stable baseline (ie Pharo-1.3-13315-OneClick) against which hopefully all packages' #stable should be working. Once that is working, then try to make it break again. Once you can break it reliability you have solved most of your problem. [1] http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/118200.html So for me this works... 1. Unzip Pharo-1.3-13315-OneClick 2. Load ConfigurationOfCitezen-DamienPollet.60 from Squeaksource Citezen project. 3. Execute (ConfigurationOfCitezen project version: #stable) load: { 'NoWeb'}. "as directed by Stef" cheers, Ben > Does that suggest anything I might try? > > Bill > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Dale Henrichs [dhenrich(a)vmware.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 8:38 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > > not that I know of:( > > ----- Original Message ----- > | From: "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 4:24:38 PM > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > | > | Dale, > | > | That would be great. I used the pre-built seaside 3.0 pharo > | image/one-click. Sadly, I can't interrupt: control-. and alt-. > | aren't doing anything. Is there something else I can do to get the > | dump? > | > | Bill > | > | ________________________________________ > | From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Dale > | Henrichs [dhenrich(a)vmware.com] > | Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:22 PM > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > | > | Bill, > | > | If you can interrupt the process get a stack and send it to me ... I > | might be able to tell something about what's going on ... > | > | Dale > | > | ----- Original Message ----- > | | From: "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > | | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | | Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 4:08:44 PM > | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > | | > | | Stef, > | | > | | It's trying to load now. The system monitor shows the vm in a > | | nanosleep mode for much of the time. I'm going to let it continue > | | to see if it can actually finish given lots of time. > | | > | | Any other ideas? > | | > | | Bill > | | > | | > | | ________________________________________ > | | From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | | [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane > | | Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] > | | Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:31 PM > | | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > | | > | | if you urgently needs it load a configuration before we changed. > | | probably Name: ConfigurationOfCitezen-StephaneDucasse.53 > | | > | | Stef > | | > | | On Feb 2, 2012, at 10:24 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > | | > | | > Stef, > | | > > | | > If you're bored, it would be nice to have confirmation one way or > | | > the other. I might have broken something with some of my > | | > changes?? However, most of that loads _after_ the staples, > | | > among > | | > which Citezen is prominent - thanks for it! > | | > > | | > Bill > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > ________________________________________ > | | > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | | > [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of > | | > StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] > | | > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:11 PM > | | > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | | > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > | | > > | | > On Feb 2, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > | | > > | | >> Hello all, > | | >> > | | >> I am making progress toward building a 1.3 image, but I am > | | >> getting > | | >> a hung system when loading (#loadNoWeb) Citezen. Is this a > | | >> known > | | >> problem? > | | > > | | > We got a problem with 1.4 and we made the error to change the 1.3 > | | > working version :( > | | > Now the last time I checked (I can retry) it was loading in 1.3 > | | > and > | | > 1.4 > | | > > | | > Stef > | | >> > | | >> Bill > | | >> > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > | | > | | > | | > | > | > | > > > > >

Feb. 3, 2012

[Pharo-project] [ENH]: Make PluggableButtonMorph more lively

by Sean P. DeNigris

I've added two little methods to PluggableButtonMorph which I've found very useful: * PluggableButtonMorph>>browseAction brings up a browser on the method that will be called when the button is clicked * halo menu item added for above I opened an issue with the code: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5240 Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ENH-Make-PluggableButtonMorph-more-lively-tp4355144p4… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Moose-dev] load testing a database

by Ben Coman

Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > Do you happen to know methods to approach the problem of testing the > capacity of an application to work with an SQL database? > > In particular, I am interested in simulating concurrent requests > towards this database that would resemble the interaction coming from > the application. > > Cheers, > Doru > > No direct experience - just musing... I assume it is not a web application or you would just use any web stress-check tool - but thinking laterally perhaps a simple web interface can be set up for such a tool to work against?

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About linkedlist

by Nicolas Cellier

2012/2/3 Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com>: >>>>> what is the diff between arrayList and vectorList ? >>>> >>>> ArrayList is double ended (very much like OrderedCollection), >>>> VectorList is single ended. I was just experimenting to see if it >>>> makes a difference. >> >> ok. I like to see such kind of experiment. >> Was the name based on something that people use? > > No, it is a randomly chosen and meaningless name. I guess in the end > there will only be one named ArrayList, but I am not sure which > implementation is better. > > Just a note to the VM developers: The primitive > Array>>#replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: is absolutely central to the > implementation of efficient collections. While it works well if you > copy from one array to the other, it is broken if source and > destination array are the same and the areas overlap. Would it be > possible to fix this. Even "memmove(void*, void*, size_t)" in C can > handle this situation correctly. > +1, I already asked for this one, this would be useful also for Xtreams, and would remove the need for some preconditions http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/152057. Nicolas

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs?

by Ben Coman

Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > The most recent recommendation I saw from stef was to use 1.3 over 1.4. Does that still hold? > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 9:51 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > > Dale, > > I've been trying to load citezen by any means possible. Are there specific packages and load order that I might try with a manual twist. My hunch is that either: > > (1) MC is hold old info that I don't know how to purge > (2) downloads are going bad, either due to the serve or socket stream woes in the image. > > I admit to messing with some of these things, but I really haven't done that damage yet. I start with fairly benign loads of the various tools I use, and then load my code once the basics are in place. > This is probably telling you how to suck eggs[1], but very generally... when troubleshooting don't _assume_ ANY change is benign. First try the clean stable baseline (ie Pharo-1.3-13315-OneClick) against which hopefully all packages' #stable should be working. Once that is working, then try to make it break again. Once you can break it reliability you have solved most of your problem. [1] http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/118200.html So for me this works... 1. Unzip Pharo-1.3-13315-OneClick 2. Load ConfigurationOfCitezen-DamienPollet.60 from Squeaksource Citezen project. 3. Execute (ConfigurationOfCitezen project version: #stable) load: { 'NoWeb'}. "as directed by Stef" cheers, Ben > Does that suggest anything I might try? > > Bill > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Dale Henrichs [dhenrich(a)vmware.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 8:38 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > > not that I know of:( > > ----- Original Message ----- > | From: "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 4:24:38 PM > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > | > | Dale, > | > | That would be great. I used the pre-built seaside 3.0 pharo > | image/one-click. Sadly, I can't interrupt: control-. and alt-. > | aren't doing anything. Is there something else I can do to get the > | dump? > | > | Bill > | > | ________________________________________ > | From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Dale > | Henrichs [dhenrich(a)vmware.com] > | Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:22 PM > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > | > | Bill, > | > | If you can interrupt the process get a stack and send it to me ... I > | might be able to tell something about what's going on ... > | > | Dale > | > | ----- Original Message ----- > | | From: "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > | | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | | Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 4:08:44 PM > | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > | | > | | Stef, > | | > | | It's trying to load now. The system monitor shows the vm in a > | | nanosleep mode for much of the time. I'm going to let it continue > | | to see if it can actually finish given lots of time. > | | > | | Any other ideas? > | | > | | Bill > | | > | | > | | ________________________________________ > | | From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | | [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane > | | Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] > | | Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:31 PM > | | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > | | > | | if you urgently needs it load a configuration before we changed. > | | probably Name: ConfigurationOfCitezen-StephaneDucasse.53 > | | > | | Stef > | | > | | On Feb 2, 2012, at 10:24 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > | | > | | > Stef, > | | > > | | > If you're bored, it would be nice to have confirmation one way or > | | > the other. I might have broken something with some of my > | | > changes?? However, most of that loads _after_ the staples, > | | > among > | | > which Citezen is prominent - thanks for it! > | | > > | | > Bill > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > ________________________________________ > | | > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | | > [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of > | | > StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] > | | > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:11 PM > | | > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | | > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] ConfigurationOfCitezen - any bugs? > | | > > | | > On Feb 2, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > | | > > | | >> Hello all, > | | >> > | | >> I am making progress toward building a 1.3 image, but I am > | | >> getting > | | >> a hung system when loading (#loadNoWeb) Citezen. Is this a > | | >> known > | | >> problem? > | | > > | | > We got a problem with 1.4 and we made the error to change the 1.3 > | | > working version :( > | | > Now the last time I checked (I can retry) it was loading in 1.3 > | | > and > | | > 1.4 > | | > > | | > Stef > | | >> > | | >> Bill > | | >> > | | > > | | > > | | > > | | > | | > | | > | | > | > | > | > > > > >

Feb. 3, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About linkedlist

by Frank Shearar

On 3 February 2012 15:44, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > Lukas Renggli wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> what is the diff between arrayList and vectorList ? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ArrayList is double ended (very much like OrderedCollection), >>>>> VectorList is single ended. I was just experimenting to see if it >>>>> makes a difference. >>>>> >>> >>> ok. I like to see such kind of experiment. >>> Was the name based on something that people use? >>> >> >> >> No, it is a randomly chosen and meaningless name. I guess in the end >> there will only be one named ArrayList, but I am not sure which >> implementation is better. >> >> > > I wasn't sure what double-ended versus single-ended meant, and found some > answer at the obvious place [1] > which mentions Ada.Containers.Vectors is a dynamic array implementation > which seems consistent with C++ [2]. > While looking around I happened to bump into [3] which was too much for me > but may be of interest to anyone playing with data structres. Â Skimming this > shows it discussing efficiency of data structures in functional languages > together with lazy variants of imperative language data structures. Â Would > such apply to Smalltalk or is the object-oriented style of Smalltalk > considered imperative rather than functional? The standard tool set - OrderedCollection, Array, etc., are not functional at all - (myArray at: 1 put: 2) mutates myArray, - so I'd put them firmly on the "imperative" side of the fence. There's nothing stopping one from writing functional data structures - Levente Uzonyi's written some persistent data structures, as have I. ("Persistent" means you get new versions of a data structure; if you hang onto those old versions you can roll back your changes.) http://www.squeaksource.com/Nutcracker/ is my own play area for these sorts of structures - PersistentUnionFind looks like a functional data structure while internally massively using side effects. http://www.lshift.net/blog/2011/12/31/translating-a-persistent-union-find-f… has references to the original papers I used for my translation. Okasaki's book is really good reading, if a bit advanced. It also has a bunch of stuff beyond just showing functional data structures. (Note that the red-black tree implementation is _incomplete_ - he leaves deleting nodes as an exercise for the reader. (See http://matt.might.net/articles/red-black-delete/)) frank > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-ended_queue > [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_container_%28C%2B%2B%29 > [3] http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rwh/theses/okasaki.pdf >

Feb. 3, 2012