February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo Morphic View Application Framework

by Benjamin

On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:09 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > On Feb 5, 2012, at 2:59 PM, Benjamin wrote: > >> >> On Feb 5, 2012, at 12:27 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> >>> On Feb 5, 2012, at 12:19 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>> >>>> Stef, >>>> >>>> Dumb/lazy question with good intentions; what is spec? Too many code names :) I should be able to at least offer guidance on MVP; I've used it to great effect for years, and know the good and weak points. >>> >>> >>> I would love that :) >>> >>> Spec so far: >>> Models based on valueHolder >>> to reuse widgets configuration AND logic >>> >>> declarative specification of UI >>> >>> Next steps >>> - Support more widgets: >>> - combox >>> - drop box >> >> What do you mean by dropbox ? >> Because there already is drop list ;) > > The widget with a button on top and a list below. I don't get it > >> >>> >>> - start to rewrite most of the UI with Spec >>> - file list >>> - changesorter >> >> I am working on Changesorter, and it's easier than I thought (at least the UI part ^^) > > ;) > >> >>> >>> - boostrap a UI Builder >>> - first steps a spec presenter >>> - then a click and place >>> >>> - add present like prototype idea propagation >>> - Get more people helping/using/... >>> >>> Stef >> >> >> Ben > >

Feb. 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Sound tutorials

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Welcome :) There are some packages in PharoSound I guess. After I do not know materials about Sound. May be in the Squeak book on my free books web site. Stef > Hi guys, > > My first post on this maillist, and brand new on Smalltalk too :) > > Today I'm here to ask a few things to you guys. > > I'm planning to do some experimental projects (just to learn more Pharo) and I'm getting stuck on some stuff... > > I'm trying to do some work with Sounds (playing, recording, analysis...), and I saw that Pharo cames with some sound libraries, but I can't find any tutorial or book talking about it... You have any recommendations about that? Where I can learn more about dealing with sound on Pharo? > > Thanks a lot. > --- > Wilker LÃºcio > http://about.me/wilkerlucio/bio > Kajabi Consultant > +55 81 82556600 >

Feb. 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo Morphic View Application Framework

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 5, 2012, at 2:59 PM, Benjamin wrote: > > On Feb 5, 2012, at 12:27 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> >> On Feb 5, 2012, at 12:19 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> Stef, >>> >>> Dumb/lazy question with good intentions; what is spec? Too many code names :) I should be able to at least offer guidance on MVP; I've used it to great effect for years, and know the good and weak points. >> >> >> I would love that :) >> >> Spec so far: >> Models based on valueHolder >> to reuse widgets configuration AND logic >> >> declarative specification of UI >> >> Next steps >> - Support more widgets: >> - combox >> - drop box > > What do you mean by dropbox ? > Because there already is drop list ;) The widget with a button on top and a list below. > >> >> - start to rewrite most of the UI with Spec >> - file list >> - changesorter > > I am working on Changesorter, and it's easier than I thought (at least the UI part ^^) ;) > >> >> - boostrap a UI Builder >> - first steps a spec presenter >> - then a click and place >> >> - add present like prototype idea propagation >> - Get more people helping/using/... >> >> Stef > > > Ben

Feb. 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Alternative to MC for upload?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

You give me a little too much credit: I'm SCARED of their lawyers :) Beyond that, I also respect the deals we made and it is only correct to honor them. Note that one or two of the agreements are just plain silly, but we entered them in good faith. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Ben Coman [btc(a)openInWorld.com] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 8:55 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Alternative to MC for upload? I think your concern is admirable. Businesses are sometimes shy of open source (more the GPL than MIT) for similar concerns. Providing tools to manage those concerns "might" enhance respectability in the eyes of those potential business users, but there are probably more important things for the limited resources to focus on at the moment. Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Ben, > > Constraints would be useful. Again, I don't dare botch this - it's silly but, there is "force of law" and all that. > > Failing a screening system like you describe, I would literally settle for an ability to make a repository and then just FTP specific files that I have saved locally and browsed for content. I'd be less scared if I hadn't been surprised in the past... > I guess a possible workflow for a poor-man's-version would be to hack the <Save> button in Monticello Browser so that it only works with local directory repositories (or less harshly, issues a warning for non-local repositories). Then uploading to a remote repository is a two step process requiring manual use the <Copy> button in the Repository Browser. To each pertinent class/method add "License: NDA1" to the comment. Hack the <Copy> button in the Repository Browser to scan the selected mcz for the "License" string before presenting the list of remote repositories. Alternatively, further hack the Save process to scan the newly created mcz for a "License" taint and rename it to reflect that (although that may have unintended consequence on tracking ancestors). > I probably create some of my own troubles by my naming conventions, which are my attempt at making it easy to catch my code with a wide net so I don't lose work. That same wide net worked against me with net repositories. > > Bill > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Ben Coman [btc(a)openInWorld.com] > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 8:05 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Alternative to MC for upload? > > Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I have a fair amount of code that I can't/don't dare release because it involves intellectual property that I do not own, and access under non-disclosure agreements (some of which are silly, but need to be respected regardless). None of that code it is relevant to you (unless you do heart surgery at home), but I need to keep it separate from things like GSL, PLplot, FFI tweaks, etc., that should interest the community. >> >> In the past, I've saved to http repositories and been surprised at things (fortunately, nothing toxic) that were released w/o my intent. Squeak Source long since lost the code in question, but it put a fear of MC in me. >> >> Is there a way to use gofer or something else to send specific .mcz files that I want to make available? Some other tool? >> >> Bill >> >> >> > I feel I've misread your question - but my first thought is that > different packages can be stored in different Repository Types. So the > heart surgery stuff would be saved to only local "directory" > repositories while the more general stuff would be saved to the public > "http" repositories. > > More generally, an interesting feature would be being able to tag both > packages and repositories with a license type (eg MIT, > MyCommericalLicense, OtherCompanyNDA) and the system constrain you to > saving packages in compatible repositories. As an extension, some ideas > for tool support might be: > + being able to strip "all non-MIT" code out of an image > + using a different background colour when editing non-MIT code > > cheers, ben > > > > >

Feb. 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo Morphic View Application Framework

by Benjamin

On Feb 5, 2012, at 12:27 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > On Feb 5, 2012, at 12:19 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Stef, >> >> Dumb/lazy question with good intentions; what is spec? Too many code names :) I should be able to at least offer guidance on MVP; I've used it to great effect for years, and know the good and weak points. > > > I would love that :) > > Spec so far: > Models based on valueHolder > to reuse widgets configuration AND logic > > declarative specification of UI > > Next steps > - Support more widgets: > - combox > - drop box What do you mean by dropbox ? Because there already is drop list ;) > > - start to rewrite most of the UI with Spec > - file list > - changesorter I am working on Changesorter, and it's easier than I thought (at least the UI part ^^) > > - boostrap a UI Builder > - first steps a spec presenter > - then a click and place > > - add present like prototype idea propagation > - Get more people helping/using/... > > Stef Ben

Feb. 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Alternative to MC for upload?

by Ben Coman

I think your concern is admirable. Businesses are sometimes shy of open source (more the GPL than MIT) for similar concerns. Providing tools to manage those concerns "might" enhance respectability in the eyes of those potential business users, but there are probably more important things for the limited resources to focus on at the moment. Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Ben, > > Constraints would be useful. Again, I don't dare botch this - it's silly but, there is "force of law" and all that. > > Failing a screening system like you describe, I would literally settle for an ability to make a repository and then just FTP specific files that I have saved locally and browsed for content. I'd be less scared if I hadn't been surprised in the past... > I guess a possible workflow for a poor-man's-version would be to hack the <Save> button in Monticello Browser so that it only works with local directory repositories (or less harshly, issues a warning for non-local repositories). Then uploading to a remote repository is a two step process requiring manual use the <Copy> button in the Repository Browser. To each pertinent class/method add "License: NDA1" to the comment. Hack the <Copy> button in the Repository Browser to scan the selected mcz for the "License" string before presenting the list of remote repositories. Alternatively, further hack the Save process to scan the newly created mcz for a "License" taint and rename it to reflect that (although that may have unintended consequence on tracking ancestors). > I probably create some of my own troubles by my naming conventions, which are my attempt at making it easy to catch my code with a wide net so I don't lose work. That same wide net worked against me with net repositories. > > Bill > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Ben Coman [btc(a)openInWorld.com] > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 8:05 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Alternative to MC for upload? > > Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I have a fair amount of code that I can't/don't dare release because it involves intellectual property that I do not own, and access under non-disclosure agreements (some of which are silly, but need to be respected regardless). None of that code it is relevant to you (unless you do heart surgery at home), but I need to keep it separate from things like GSL, PLplot, FFI tweaks, etc., that should interest the community. >> >> In the past, I've saved to http repositories and been surprised at things (fortunately, nothing toxic) that were released w/o my intent. Squeak Source long since lost the code in question, but it put a fear of MC in me. >> >> Is there a way to use gofer or something else to send specific .mcz files that I want to make available? Some other tool? >> >> Bill >> >> >> > I feel I've misread your question - but my first thought is that > different packages can be stored in different Repository Types. So the > heart surgery stuff would be saved to only local "directory" > repositories while the more general stuff would be saved to the public > "http" repositories. > > More generally, an interesting feature would be being able to tag both > packages and repositories with a license type (eg MIT, > MyCommericalLicense, OtherCompanyNDA) and the system constrain you to > saving packages in compatible repositories. As an extension, some ideas > for tool support might be: > + being able to strip "all non-MIT" code out of an image > + using a different background colour when editing non-MIT code > > cheers, ben > > > > >

Feb. 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Alternative to MC for upload?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Dave, Thanks for the suggestion. It also occurs to me that Pharo *has* to contain the upload code, so I might simply be able to isolate and script it to push only what I specify. I just need an idiot proof safe solution. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Dave Mason [dmason(a)mason-rose.ca] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 8:41 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Alternative to MC for upload? On 2012-Feb-5, at 8:13 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > The only thing you are missing is that I (presumably) made a mistake that once broke a barrier between public code and things that I had not intended to release. The "spill" was code that was not worthy of release (otherwise harmless), but it could have just as easily have been something that is "somebody else's intellectual property." It is that latter mistake that I don't ever want to make, so I would like to be specific about the files I push. I thought you should be able to access www.squeaksource.com using WebDAV, but at least guest access doesn't work. There must be one of the protocols that WebDAV uses that the monticello server that I presume powers ss doesn't support, because the converse certainly works, I have a local WebDAV that MC is quite happy with. If you had webdav you could move over files (and possibly delete old files you didn't want there). ../Dave

Feb. 5, 2012

[Pharo-project] Sound tutorials

by Wilker

Hi guys, My first post on this maillist, and brand new on Smalltalk too :) Today I'm here to ask a few things to you guys. I'm planning to do some experimental projects (just to learn more Pharo) and I'm getting stuck on some stuff... I'm trying to do some work with Sounds (playing, recording, analysis...), and I saw that Pharo cames with some sound libraries, but I can't find any tutorial or book talking about it... You have any recommendations about that? Where I can learn more about dealing with sound on Pharo? Thanks a lot. --- Wilker LÃºcio http://about.me/wilkerlucio/bio Kajabi Consultant +55 81 82556600

Feb. 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Alternative to MC for upload?

by Dave Mason

On 2012-Feb-5, at 8:13 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > The only thing you are missing is that I (presumably) made a mistake that once broke a barrier between public code and things that I had not intended to release. The "spill" was code that was not worthy of release (otherwise harmless), but it could have just as easily have been something that is "somebody else's intellectual property." It is that latter mistake that I don't ever want to make, so I would like to be specific about the files I push. I thought you should be able to access www.squeaksource.com using WebDAV, but at least guest access doesn't work. There must be one of the protocols that WebDAV uses that the monticello server that I presume powers ss doesn't support, because the converse certainly works, I have a local WebDAV that MC is quite happy with. If you had webdav you could move over files (and possibly delete old files you didn't want there). ../Dave

Feb. 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Alternative to MC for upload?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, The only thing you are missing is that I (presumably) made a mistake that once broke a barrier between public code and things that I had not intended to release. The "spill" was code that was not worthy of release (otherwise harmless), but it could have just as easily have been something that is "somebody else's intellectual property." It is that latter mistake that I don't ever want to make, so I would like to be specific about the files I push. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 8:06 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Alternative to MC for upload? I do not really understand your problem. either your code is public and you can publish it to a repository where people can have a look or your code is private and you do not publish it. The fact that this is mc or not is orthogonal or I miss something Stef On Feb 5, 2012, at 2:01 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Stef, > > Sure, but my concern is that, in the past, I had a simple packing mistake (I assume I was at fault) expose code that I had not intended to release. There was no harm that time, but I would really rather do *anything* other than let MC write my code to the repository. I'd settle for FTP access or a gofer solution, just so long as I know exactly which files are going to upload. I don't make the rules, but I did sign the non-disclosure agreements and MUST respect them. > > Bill > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 7:41 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Alternative to MC for upload? > > On Feb 5, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I have a fair amount of code that I can't/don't dare release because it involves intellectual property that I do not own, and access under non-disclosure agreements (some of which are silly, but need to be respected regardless). None of that code it is relevant to you (unless you do heart surgery at home), but I need to keep it separate from things like GSL, PLplot, FFI tweaks, etc., that should interest the community. >> >> In the past, I've saved to http repositories and been surprised at things (fortunately, nothing toxic) that were released w/o my intent. Squeak Source long since lost the code in question, but it put a fear of MC in me. >> >> Is there a way to use gofer or something else to send specific .mcz files that I want to make available? Some other tool? > > The best thing to do is create a repository on squeak source and publish the code there with a clear license. > You can just copy the packages in there. > >> >> Bill >> >> > > >

Feb. 5, 2012