February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] pharo vision

by S Krish

My two cents: Pharo Roadmap: Should be a clean, basic kernel, rockstable, IDE that is guaranteed to work most efficiently with its base library, compiler. Perfect and simplest kernel. I do consider a perfect FFI, Collections, Streams ( including File/ Socket ), String, Graphics, UI widget/canvas library as base and some more that are basics. FFI that is non-blocking/ callback supported through all major platforms. Optimization for all the collections hierarchy, clean FS including networking support, cleaner , Morphic widgets.. The IDE that works and never crashes for all newbie interactions, that should be glitch free and offer failsafe error handlers at the image level if something does go wrong to handle it cleanly... Rest everything is secondary or even tertiary at this point. Source Code mgmt: this is an important top level package, ideal if its an external package. No other platform comes loaded with an IDE, debugger, source code mgmt as default.. It is the base kernel + IDE + external pacakges.. Gives options to uses in future to switch between MC/ Git/ SVN as they may want it to be without the noise/ extras. Rich libraries Seriously should we be reinventing the wheel, unless there is luxury in future to do so. Reusing all that we can from all other platfoms: C libs, Java, Ruby, Python.. etc.. is perfectly fine. For turtles down the line, we should simply have any contributor give an interface package for minimal and extensible connection to say: Reports, DBMS, ... etc using something that works viz: C interfaces, XMLRPC ( SOAP aint the best..!) and perhaps some other custom connector through plugin mechanism as is done for DBXSqueak... UI frameworks: This too should remain an outside package not built in.. there can be many lines of thought and processes.. and each one completely acceptable from their usage/ view standpoint.. Usable Pharo base : ( Base: Excellent Kernel + Morphic ) + Source Code Mgmt Package Usable Pharo Web : Pharo Base + Seaside Make a separate workspace/ area for Pharo Foundation supported / approved secondary package, so that download from there is more guaranteed than other user contributed areas/ projects people host/ support on their own. On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Philippe Marschall <kustos(a)gmx.net> wrote: > On 30.01.2012 09:24, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > OK, so here's my take. I try to not turn this into a wish list. > > Rich libraries > While I obviously agree that rich libraries are valuable I believe it's > important to have clear guidelines to what should be part of Pharo and what > not. In one extreme I could have everything from SqS be part of Pharo. I > don't think this is the idea. You don't want to have the same discussion > for every library whether it should be part of Pharo. > > FFI > First I think we need to have a problem statement. We want to be able to > use libraries written in C from Pharo. We don't implement them in Pharo > because we don't have the resources to develop them or Pharo is unsuited > for the task. This sucks because it's no longer "turtles all the way down" > but better than nothing. Since blocking C calls block the entire VM until > the call returns we need to have "threaded-FFI". > Yes, I do think that callbacks should be mentioned here. Currently the > situation as I understand it is: > - use FFI for call-outs > - use Alien for call-backs > - use NativeBoost for faster callouts? "portable plugins"? > It would be really nice to have a better, more integrated solution here. > If that results in something that's more than a one liner for a C call > that's fine with me. > > 64 bit > I think it's important to make a distinction between 64bit images and 64 > bit VMs. > > 64 bit VMs > Unless you on a small device current systems are 64bit. While most of them > offer some sort of way for running 32bit applications this cannot be the > way forward since: > - it clearly marks the application as legacy > - you can only talk to 32bit libraries (see FFI) > - we don't know how long this will still be supported (Apple anybody?) > I don't know how much work is required to make Cog run on 64bit. > > 64bit images > While it would be nice to have multi gigabyte images (maybe not) I don't > think it's realistic to assume we have the resources to come up with a GC > that can handle such images. > > SOAP > SOAP is a massive resource sink [1]. Yes it would be nice to have good > support but the cost is prohibitive and better spent on other things. > > Sockets > I don't think the socket layer is holding us back. Sure, it's ugly, sure, > it can â and should â be improved, but it's not holding us back. IMO it's > missing four things: > - better documentation with examples, this is important and relatively > easy to do > - SSL, this is "just" an issue for clients since servers are fronted > anyway. I know Sven's working on this. > - sendfile support. This would allow us to send files efficiently over > the network without touching user space. Since we're fronted anyway this is > not a big deal. > - asynchronous support. This would allow us to have a large amount of > open connections for things like WebSockets. May be too much work to get it > working on Mac/Linux/Windows. This alone doesn't give us WebSockets, we > still need to write quite some infrastructure on top of it so you'll > probably want to deprioritize if not drop this. > I know I have a narrow Seaside-centric focus here. > What would be nice is to have a generic client-server framework (how many > times have I written a socket-loop?) but I don't think this should be part > of Pharo. > > Load balancer > I don't think this needs to be part of Pharo. Apache already does this. > > UI frameworks: > Have you considered cutting your losses? You have your existing > infrastructure that requires more resources than you have and if you could > you rewrote it. Then in addition you have new requirements and you want to > come up with new paradigms. I feel this alone can consume more your entire > resources. > Options that I would consider: > - status quo, maintenance only, no further development > - drop UI entirely, go for something like embedded WebKit > - make it somebody else's problem, once you have better FFI generate > bindings for GTK/QT/â¦ > This is not giving up. This is not fighting battles you cannot win. > > Plug Computer > Really? You have all the other places that need more resources and you > want to do even more. > > Now the things that aren't on your list: > > VM: > Better JIT, allocator, collector. No matter how good your VM is it's never > good enough and there's always useful stuff you can add like monitoring. > > #identityHash > It would certainly be nice to have more than 12 hash bits, especially form > a performance PoV. IIRC there was once talk of getting rid of compact > classes. I take an additional hash bit over an immutability bit any time. > > Infrastructure > If your tools and build infrastructure are holding you back fix them. I > would be quite happy if a year from now Pharo is exactly the same and the > only thing that changed is the infrastructure you use to build Pharo is way > better. I know Seaside sucks at this as well. > > Migration Support > Since you're changing quite a lot of things (SystemDictionary/**SmalltakImage, > file system, streams, â¦) it would be nice to have support to: > - tell the user where he uses deprecated code > - assist the user in migrating to new APIs > this can also help you migrate everything in Pharo to the new APIs. You > probably want to build on top of the rewrite engine of RB. Since you don't > have static types the migration can probably only done in a semi-automated > way presenting the user a list of possible matches and letting him select > the appropriate ones. The deprecation support has been discussed > previously. This is probably the only thing in this list that could be put > into research papers. > > Releases > I know Seaside sucks at this as well so this isn't a flame. To me as an > outsider the release process of Pharo is confusing. I find the release > process of Eclipse [2] [3] better. The main points are: > - One main release every year > - Two bugfix releases every year > - after the two bugfix releases a new main release is done and the old > main release becomes unsupported > The releases are date driven, not feature driven. The dates for the ga, rc > and milestone releases as well as feature and API freezes are set years in > advance. That has downsides. For example if your feature misses a deadline, > you have to wait for more than a year to see it in a release. But it makes > everything nicely planable. > > [1] http://www.innoq.com/soa/ws-**standards/poster/innoQ%20WS-** > Standards%20Poster%202007-02.**pdf<http://www.innoq.com/soa/ws-standards/poster/innoQ%20WS-Standards%20Poster%…> > [2] http://wiki.eclipse.org/**Simultaneous_Release<http://wiki.eclipse.org/Simultaneous_Release> > [3] http://wiki.eclipse.org/**SimRel/Overview<http://wiki.eclipse.org/SimRel/Overview> > > Cheers > Philippe > > >

Feb. 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Sound tutorials

by S Krish

http://squeaksource.com/PharoSound/ <http://squeaksource.com/PharoSound/> http://squeaksource.com/PharoSound/ConfigurationOfPharoSound-GuillermoPolit… Caveats on Ubuntu: * I could not get Preferences to work properly.. infact the Sound Preference item does not expand * The Sound settings therefore I have had to hack out and let defaults run through for Constants strewed for checks but I am sure Mac and Windows might be cleaner.. do check out.. unless later packages of Sound are better of.. http://squeaksource.com/ <http://squeaksource.com/PharoSound/>Speech does give a decent run at simulated Sound / Text to Speech, I am interested in and could make it to work.. but a long way from making the voice sound half decent. On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Wilker <wilkerlucio(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi guys, > > My first post on this maillist, and brand new on Smalltalk too :) > > Today I'm here to ask a few things to you guys. > > I'm planning to do some experimental projects (just to learn more Pharo) > and I'm getting stuck on some stuff... > > I'm trying to do some work with Sounds (playing, recording, analysis...), > and I saw that Pharo cames with some sound libraries, but I can't find any > tutorial or book talking about it... You have any recommendations about > that? Where I can learn more about dealing with sound on Pharo? > > Thanks a lot. > --- > Wilker LÃºcio > http://about.me/wilkerlucio/bio > Kajabi Consultant > +55 81 82556600 > >

Feb. 6, 2012

[Pharo-project] Basics...Pluggable..Morphs on change

by S Krish

I am checking out on the basics of the PluggableTextMorph and PluggableListMorph .. and its cousins. PluggableListMorph >> changeModelSelection: anInteger setIndexSelector ifNotNil: [model perform: setIndexSelector with: anInteger]. here it is the responsibility of the model to send #changed: getIndexSelector. why..? why not a simpler generic: changeModelSelection: anInteger setIndexSelector ifNotNil: [model perform: setIndexSelector with: anInteger]. "sends the call to all dependents of the model implicitly" * model perform: #changed: with: getIndexSelector * thereof the models anywhere need not bother sending #changed: calls... ! similarly: acceptTextInModel ..... [^setTextSelector isNil or: [setTextSelector numArgs = 2 ifTrue: [model perform: setTextSelector with: acceptedText with: self] ifFalse: [model perform: setTextSelector with: acceptedText]] ] ensure: [unstyledAcceptText := nil]. * model perform: #changed with: getTextSelector* *We can avoid these in the methods if implemented across all Pluggable??Morphs * Workspace class>> openContents: aString ^ self new open; contents: aString; "funny is this itself calls #changed:" "changed: #contents;" yourself Makes common sense to me.. rather than expecting the model to explicity call #changed:..this "view" / widget knows its model and it implicitly invoking #changed: is cleaner abstraction, unless a use case exists which may break infrastructure/ whole base doing this.. This way all models associated with various Pluggable??Morphs will work perfectly fine on just a setter call without extra line being added everywhere in the application code, apps need to bother about changes to other symbol viz: updating a list selection index causes another widget to refresh its content..

Feb. 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Sound tutorials

by Serge Stinckwich

On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Wilker <wilkerlucio(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi guys, > > My first post on this maillist, and brand new on Smalltalk too :) > > Today I'm here to ask a few things to you guys. > > I'm planning to do some experimental projects (just to learn more Pharo) and > I'm getting stuck on some stuff... > > I'm trying to do some work with Sounds (playing, recording, analysis...), > and I saw that Pharo cames with some sound libraries, but I can't find any > tutorial or book talking about it... You have any recommendations about > that? Where I can learn more about dealing with sound on Pharo? Because no one has enough expertise, most of the sound stuff from Squeak have been deprecated or removed in recent Pharo versions. You can look at old or current projects that deal with sounds in Smalltalk : - http://fastlabinc.com/Siren/index.html - http://www.zogotounga.net/surmulot/surmulot.html - http://cyclades.seasidehosting.st/ This could be nice if someone rebuild a basic sound library for Pharo. Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

Feb. 6, 2012

[Pharo-project] Open Advice Essays

by Ben Coman

I hesitated to share this since I actually found most of it a bit bland and Pharo is already doing many of the suggestions quite well - but I had picked out the few interesting parts as a went along, so here they are. Many of the essays would apply more to the Pharo ecosystem of surrounding projects rather than Pharo itself - particularly those that end up abandoned. This 40 short essays [1] on "What we wish we had known when we started Free Software" [1] http://open-advice.org/Open-Advice.pdf <http://open-advice.org/> pdf p23-29 - Out of the Lab, into the Wild - Growing Open Source Communities around Academic Projects... pdf p43 - "when you lose interest in a program, your last duty is to hand it off to a competent successor" (or document well the transition to the replacement) pdf p44 - "As a new contributor to a project, you are an invaluable asset not for your knowledge, but for your ignorance" pdf p52 - "Potential contributors often think they are not allowed to contribute. The reasons for this [...] are all misconceptions" pdf p135 - "If you are a developer, it is particularly difficult for you to sit in the user's chair" pdf p186 - Planning pdf p270 - "it is far more important to have documentation of the things that will not work, so they can be avoided or worked around, than it is to know that some future version will behave much better. [...] Today's documented bug is, ironically, often preferable to tomorrow's fix with unforeseeable side effects." pdf p301-302 "the tension in Free Software did not lie in the introduction of increased commercial activity, in the increased participation of company employees in projects, or in change itself. The real problem lay in the gap between a dis- placed previous elite and their newer, occasionally very different, fellow stakeholders." regards, Ben

Feb. 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Sound tutorials

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Ok, that worked :) Is there a way that we could get the plugin into the Jenkins built vm? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Wilker [wilkerlucio(a)gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:45 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Sound tutorials Thanks a lot Daniel :) The hint for enabling sound worked here :) Now only need some docs about sound recording, reproducing and analysis... Probably will need to dig into sources =/ But playing now, is a good start :) --- Wilker LÃºcio http://about.me/wilkerlucio/bio Kajabi Consultant +55 81 82556600 On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Daniel Galdames <lemuus(a)gmail.com<mailto:lemuus@gmail.com>> wrote: On Linux you can get sound doing this (at least it works for me :p ): Copy Squeak-4.4.7.2357-linux_i386/lib/squeak/4.4.7-2357/so.vm-sound-pulse from SqueakVM 4.4.7 (http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/) to: For the Eliot CogVM: coglinux/lib/squeak/4.0-2522/ and rename it to: vm-sound-pulse for the CogVM from jenkins: put the plugin in the same directoy of the CogVM executable file, and rename it to vm-sound-pulse.so Then, open a Pharo-1.3 image, and evaluate: AbstractSoundSystem soundEnabled: true. Then evaluate: Beeper beep. and you should hear a beep. :-) or: FMSound organ1 play. and you should hear the organ. I think that for Mac you only need to evaluate: AbstractSoundSystem soundEnabled: true. to have sound working... but i don't know. Greetings, Daniel Galdames G. En Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:17:27 -0300, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> escribiÃ³: FWIW, I've had zero luck with sound on Linux :( Squeak did work when I tried it, but I'm not ready to move over sound. I have read that others have gotten sound going on Pharo by copying plugins and evaluating expressions, but it didn't work for me. So far, sound would simply be entertaining. Eventually, I would like to be able to replay sound clips that I capture with a/d hardware (which is working). If I have to choose, I'll take the a/d... Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Wilker [wilkerlucio(a)gmail.com<mailto:wilkerlucio@gmail.com>] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:38 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Sound tutorials Hi, Thanks :) I saw that packages on the class browser, but no docs at all (just on some messages, but no base doc...). I also tried this snippet: FMSound organ1 play. But it doesn't play any song at all... But maybe it's because of some settings, I found that in settings there is a checkbox (under Appearance section) for "Sound...", but when I try to check it, it never turns on... I'm using the most updated VM for Mac OS (running Mac OS Lion here), and using the Pharo 1.3 image. Any advices? Thanks :) --- Wilker LÃºcio http://about.me/wilkerlucio/bio Kajabi Consultant +55 81 82556600<tel:%2B55%2081%2082556600> On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:12 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr<mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr><mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr<mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>>> wrote: Welcome :) There are some packages in PharoSound I guess. After I do not know materials about Sound. May be in the Squeak book on my free books web site. Stef Hi guys, My first post on this maillist, and brand new on Smalltalk too :) Today I'm here to ask a few things to you guys. I'm planning to do some experimental projects (just to learn more Pharo) and I'm getting stuck on some stuff... I'm trying to do some work with Sounds (playing, recording, analysis...), and I saw that Pharo cames with some sound libraries, but I can't find any tutorial or book talking about it... You have any recommendations about that? Where I can learn more about dealing with sound on Pharo? Thanks a lot. --- Wilker LÃºcio http://about.me/wilkerlucio/bio Kajabi Consultant +55 81 82556600<tel:%2B55%2081%2082556600><tel:%2B55%2081%2082556600> -- Usando el novÃsimo cliente de correo de Opera: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Feb. 6, 2012

[Pharo-project] SmallHarbour questions

by GermÃ¡n Arduino

Hi: I'm trying to start using SmallHarbour and found several problems or is me that don't know how to do the things: 1. How to delete a folder? (If I create a folder and click on it and then press delete nothing happens). 2. How to delete images and changes files? (If I click in an image it says "file to big to download", but I don't have a place to select it to delete. 3. I uploaded a sample image and somethings start and somethings not and when starts can't reach it on the url (Not found log info still). Some advices about sort of images/apps, etc to upload? TIA. -- ============================================ GermÃ¡n S. ArduinoÂ <gsa @ arsol.net>Â Â Twitter: garduino Arduino Software Â http://www.arduinosoftware.com PasswordsProÂ http://www.passwordspro.com greensecure.blogspot.com germanarduino.blogpost.com ============================================

Feb. 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Sound tutorials

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

No warranties, but see attached. If it helps, do what you want with it. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Wilker [wilkerlucio(a)gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:45 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Sound tutorials Thanks a lot Daniel :) The hint for enabling sound worked here :) Now only need some docs about sound recording, reproducing and analysis... Probably will need to dig into sources =/ But playing now, is a good start :) --- Wilker LÃºcio http://about.me/wilkerlucio/bio Kajabi Consultant +55 81 82556600 On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Daniel Galdames <lemuus(a)gmail.com<mailto:lemuus@gmail.com>> wrote: On Linux you can get sound doing this (at least it works for me :p ): Copy Squeak-4.4.7.2357-linux_i386/lib/squeak/4.4.7-2357/so.vm-sound-pulse from SqueakVM 4.4.7 (http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/) to: For the Eliot CogVM: coglinux/lib/squeak/4.0-2522/ and rename it to: vm-sound-pulse for the CogVM from jenkins: put the plugin in the same directoy of the CogVM executable file, and rename it to vm-sound-pulse.so Then, open a Pharo-1.3 image, and evaluate: AbstractSoundSystem soundEnabled: true. Then evaluate: Beeper beep. and you should hear a beep. :-) or: FMSound organ1 play. and you should hear the organ. I think that for Mac you only need to evaluate: AbstractSoundSystem soundEnabled: true. to have sound working... but i don't know. Greetings, Daniel Galdames G. En Sun, 05 Feb 2012 16:17:27 -0300, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> escribiÃ³: FWIW, I've had zero luck with sound on Linux :( Squeak did work when I tried it, but I'm not ready to move over sound. I have read that others have gotten sound going on Pharo by copying plugins and evaluating expressions, but it didn't work for me. So far, sound would simply be entertaining. Eventually, I would like to be able to replay sound clips that I capture with a/d hardware (which is working). If I have to choose, I'll take the a/d... Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Wilker [wilkerlucio(a)gmail.com<mailto:wilkerlucio@gmail.com>] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:38 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Sound tutorials Hi, Thanks :) I saw that packages on the class browser, but no docs at all (just on some messages, but no base doc...). I also tried this snippet: FMSound organ1 play. But it doesn't play any song at all... But maybe it's because of some settings, I found that in settings there is a checkbox (under Appearance section) for "Sound...", but when I try to check it, it never turns on... I'm using the most updated VM for Mac OS (running Mac OS Lion here), and using the Pharo 1.3 image. Any advices? Thanks :) --- Wilker LÃºcio http://about.me/wilkerlucio/bio Kajabi Consultant +55 81 82556600<tel:%2B55%2081%2082556600> On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:12 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr<mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr><mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr<mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>>> wrote: Welcome :) There are some packages in PharoSound I guess. After I do not know materials about Sound. May be in the Squeak book on my free books web site. Stef Hi guys, My first post on this maillist, and brand new on Smalltalk too :) Today I'm here to ask a few things to you guys. I'm planning to do some experimental projects (just to learn more Pharo) and I'm getting stuck on some stuff... I'm trying to do some work with Sounds (playing, recording, analysis...), and I saw that Pharo cames with some sound libraries, but I can't find any tutorial or book talking about it... You have any recommendations about that? Where I can learn more about dealing with sound on Pharo? Thanks a lot. --- Wilker LÃºcio http://about.me/wilkerlucio/bio Kajabi Consultant +55 81 82556600<tel:%2B55%2081%2082556600><tel:%2B55%2081%2082556600> -- Usando el novÃsimo cliente de correo de Opera: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Feb. 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] pharo vision

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks Philippe. I worked more on the document but I will integrate your ideas in it and will send it again. Stef On Feb 5, 2012, at 6:43 PM, Philippe Marschall wrote: > On 30.01.2012 09:24, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > OK, so here's my take. I try to not turn this into a wish list. > > Rich libraries > While I obviously agree that rich libraries are valuable I believe it's important to have clear guidelines to what should be part of Pharo and what not. In one extreme I could have everything from SqS be part of Pharo. I don't think this is the idea. You don't want to have the same discussion for every library whether it should be part of Pharo. > > FFI > First I think we need to have a problem statement. We want to be able to use libraries written in C from Pharo. We don't implement them in Pharo because we don't have the resources to develop them or Pharo is unsuited for the task. This sucks because it's no longer "turtles all the way down" but better than nothing. Since blocking C calls block the entire VM until the call returns we need to have "threaded-FFI". > Yes, I do think that callbacks should be mentioned here. Currently the situation as I understand it is: > - use FFI for call-outs > - use Alien for call-backs > - use NativeBoost for faster callouts? "portable plugins"? > It would be really nice to have a better, more integrated solution here. If that results in something that's more than a one liner for a C call that's fine with me. > > 64 bit > I think it's important to make a distinction between 64bit images and 64 bit VMs. > > 64 bit VMs > Unless you on a small device current systems are 64bit. While most of them offer some sort of way for running 32bit applications this cannot be the way forward since: > - it clearly marks the application as legacy > - you can only talk to 32bit libraries (see FFI) > - we don't know how long this will still be supported (Apple anybody?) > I don't know how much work is required to make Cog run on 64bit. > > 64bit images > While it would be nice to have multi gigabyte images (maybe not) I don't think it's realistic to assume we have the resources to come up with a GC that can handle such images. > > SOAP > SOAP is a massive resource sink [1]. Yes it would be nice to have good support but the cost is prohibitive and better spent on other things. > > Sockets > I don't think the socket layer is holding us back. Sure, it's ugly, sure, it can â and should â be improved, but it's not holding us back. IMO it's missing four things: > - better documentation with examples, this is important and relatively easy to do > - SSL, this is "just" an issue for clients since servers are fronted anyway. I know Sven's working on this. > - sendfile support. This would allow us to send files efficiently over the network without touching user space. Since we're fronted anyway this is not a big deal. > - asynchronous support. This would allow us to have a large amount of open connections for things like WebSockets. May be too much work to get it working on Mac/Linux/Windows. This alone doesn't give us WebSockets, we still need to write quite some infrastructure on top of it so you'll probably want to deprioritize if not drop this. > I know I have a narrow Seaside-centric focus here. > What would be nice is to have a generic client-server framework (how many times have I written a socket-loop?) but I don't think this should be part of Pharo. > > Load balancer > I don't think this needs to be part of Pharo. Apache already does this. > > UI frameworks: > Have you considered cutting your losses? You have your existing infrastructure that requires more resources than you have and if you could you rewrote it. Then in addition you have new requirements and you want to come up with new paradigms. I feel this alone can consume more your entire resources. > Options that I would consider: > - status quo, maintenance only, no further development > - drop UI entirely, go for something like embedded WebKit > - make it somebody else's problem, once you have better FFI generate bindings for GTK/QT/â¦ > This is not giving up. This is not fighting battles you cannot win. > > Plug Computer > Really? You have all the other places that need more resources and you want to do even more. > > Now the things that aren't on your list: > > VM: > Better JIT, allocator, collector. No matter how good your VM is it's never good enough and there's always useful stuff you can add like monitoring. > > #identityHash > It would certainly be nice to have more than 12 hash bits, especially form a performance PoV. IIRC there was once talk of getting rid of compact classes. I take an additional hash bit over an immutability bit any time. > > Infrastructure > If your tools and build infrastructure are holding you back fix them. I would be quite happy if a year from now Pharo is exactly the same and the only thing that changed is the infrastructure you use to build Pharo is way better. I know Seaside sucks at this as well. > > Migration Support > Since you're changing quite a lot of things (SystemDictionary/SmalltakImage, file system, streams, â¦) it would be nice to have support to: > - tell the user where he uses deprecated code > - assist the user in migrating to new APIs > this can also help you migrate everything in Pharo to the new APIs. You probably want to build on top of the rewrite engine of RB. Since you don't have static types the migration can probably only done in a semi-automated way presenting the user a list of possible matches and letting him select the appropriate ones. The deprecation support has been discussed previously. This is probably the only thing in this list that could be put into research papers. > > Releases > I know Seaside sucks at this as well so this isn't a flame. To me as an outsider the release process of Pharo is confusing. I find the release process of Eclipse [2] [3] better. The main points are: > - One main release every year > - Two bugfix releases every year > - after the two bugfix releases a new main release is done and the old main release becomes unsupported > The releases are date driven, not feature driven. The dates for the ga, rc and milestone releases as well as feature and API freezes are set years in advance. That has downsides. For example if your feature misses a deadline, you have to wait for more than a year to see it in a release. But it makes everything nicely planable. > > [1] http://www.innoq.com/soa/ws-standards/poster/innoQ%20WS-Standards%20Poster%… > [2] http://wiki.eclipse.org/Simultaneous_Release > [3] http://wiki.eclipse.org/SimRel/Overview > > Cheers > Philippe > >

Feb. 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Sound tutorials

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

on mac you should enable sound: BaseSoundSystem soundEnabled: true We should have a setting for it in the future. Stef On Feb 5, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > FWIW, I've had zero luck with sound on Linux :( > > Squeak did work when I tried it, but I'm not ready to move over sound. I have read that others have gotten sound going on Pharo by copying plugins and evaluating expressions, but it didn't work for me. > > So far, sound would simply be entertaining. Eventually, I would like to be able to replay sound clips that I capture with a/d hardware (which is working). If I have to choose, I'll take the a/d... > > Bill > > > > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Wilker [wilkerlucio(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:38 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Sound tutorials > > Hi, Thanks :) > > I saw that packages on the class browser, but no docs at all (just on some messages, but no base doc...). > > I also tried this snippet: FMSound organ1 play. > > But it doesn't play any song at all... But maybe it's because of some settings, I found that in settings there is a checkbox (under Appearance section) for "Sound...", but when I try to check it, it never turns on... > > I'm using the most updated VM for Mac OS (running Mac OS Lion here), and using the Pharo 1.3 image. > > Any advices? > > Thanks :) > --- > Wilker LÃºcio > http://about.me/wilkerlucio/bio > Kajabi Consultant > +55 81 82556600 > > > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:12 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Welcome :) > There are some packages in PharoSound I guess. > After I do not know materials about Sound. May be in the Squeak book on my free books web site. > > Stef > > > > Hi guys, > > > > My first post on this maillist, and brand new on Smalltalk too :) > > > > Today I'm here to ask a few things to you guys. > > > > I'm planning to do some experimental projects (just to learn more Pharo) and I'm getting stuck on some stuff... > > > > I'm trying to do some work with Sounds (playing, recording, analysis...), and I saw that Pharo cames with some sound libraries, but I can't find any tutorial or book talking about it... You have any recommendations about that? Where I can learn more about dealing with sound on Pharo? > > > > Thanks a lot. > > --- > > Wilker LÃºcio > > http://about.me/wilkerlucio/bio > > Kajabi Consultant > > +55 81 82556600 > >

Feb. 5, 2012