February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Fixed to interrupt behavior

by Marcus Denker

On Feb 8, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Stef, > > We are on the same topic then. I am having problems with cmd . on 1.3 - it won't break anything :( > it is fixed in 1.4. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Fixed to interrupt behavior

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, We are on the same topic then. I am having problems with cmd . on 1.3 - it won't break anything :( Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 5:16 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Fixed to interrupt behavior The idea is that most of the time when you pressed cmd . you killed stopped either the UI of the debugger you were invoking :) or the finalization process. too badâ¦ you stopped the only guy that was helping you to receiver from memory. No such process are not selected when you press . cmd On Feb 8, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > For the rest of us, fixed what, when? Just curious. > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Sven Van Caekenberghe [sven(a)beta9.be] > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 3:01 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Development > Subject: [Pharo-project] Fixed to interrupt behavior > > Sig en Co, > > Thanks a lot for the fixed interrupt behavior ! > It worked perfectly. > This really makes a difference. > > Sven > >

Feb. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Fixed to interrupt behavior

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

The idea is that most of the time when you pressed cmd . you killed stopped either the UI of the debugger you were invoking :) or the finalization process. too badâ¦ you stopped the only guy that was helping you to receiver from memory. No such process are not selected when you press . cmd On Feb 8, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > For the rest of us, fixed what, when? Just curious. > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Sven Van Caekenberghe [sven(a)beta9.be] > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 3:01 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Development > Subject: [Pharo-project] Fixed to interrupt behavior > > Sig en Co, > > Thanks a lot for the fixed interrupt behavior ! > It worked perfectly. > This really makes a difference. > > Sven > >

Feb. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Trusting Trust

by Philippe Marschall

On 02/08/2012 10:43 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 10:39 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote: > >>> well I do not think so since we can all read the code. >> >> No, read the argument again. If the compiler is compromised and the other tools in the image are compromised you can't read the code because the tools don't display you the actual code. >> > But this stays the same with a boot-strap, as you will use a compomised compiler to bootstrap the bootstrap. > > There is nothing you can do against it. It's true for GCC or Java, too. Yes, but read the links on how you can use a different, second compiler. Cheers Philippe

Feb. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Trusting Trust

by Marcus Denker

On Feb 8, 2012, at 10:39 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote: >> well I do not think so since we can all read the code. > > No, read the argument again. If the compiler is compromised and the other tools in the image are compromised you can't read the code because the tools don't display you the actual code. > But this stays the same with a boot-strap, as you will use a compomised compiler to bootstrap the bootstrap. There is nothing you can do against it. It's true for GCC or Java, too. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Trusting Trust

by Philippe Marschall

On 02/08/2012 10:33 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 9:35 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote: > >> On 02/07/2012 02:47 PM, Ben Coman wrote: >>> >>> This is slightly paranoid thinking, but considering the long evolution >>> of Smalltalk live images (apparently all the way from the original Xerox >>> PARC ST80 [1] ) in relation to Ken Thompson's "Reflections on Trusting >>> Trust" [2] - are there any mechanisms to prevent trojan code living >>> undetected inside a Smalltalk compiler/decompiler ? Bruce Schneier [3] >>> provides a shorter overview of [2] if that is not to your taste. >>> >>> To what degree might this ever be an issue with Pharo and how might it >>> be mitigated ? >> >> I think it's worse in Pharo because you're never bootstrapping from source. From all you know the tools could be subverted to show you a different code than is actually running in the system. > > well I do not think so since we can all read the code. No, read the argument again. If the compiler is compromised and the other tools in the image are compromised you can't read the code because the tools don't display you the actual code. Cheers Philippe

Feb. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Trusting Trust

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 8, 2012, at 9:35 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote: > On 02/07/2012 02:47 PM, Ben Coman wrote: >> >> This is slightly paranoid thinking, but considering the long evolution >> of Smalltalk live images (apparently all the way from the original Xerox >> PARC ST80 [1] ) in relation to Ken Thompson's "Reflections on Trusting >> Trust" [2] - are there any mechanisms to prevent trojan code living >> undetected inside a Smalltalk compiler/decompiler ? Bruce Schneier [3] >> provides a shorter overview of [2] if that is not to your taste. >> >> To what degree might this ever be an issue with Pharo and how might it >> be mitigated ? > > I think it's worse in Pharo because you're never bootstrapping from source. From all you know the tools could be subverted to show you a different code than is actually running in the system. well I do not think so since we can all read the code. If you have a bootstrap in C or assembly it does make me more confident. So the argument while nice at first sight does not hold a second. Now we will get a bootstrapped version of pharo believe me :) > > Cheers > Philippe > > >

Feb. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Fixed to interrupt behavior

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

For the rest of us, fixed what, when? Just curious. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Sven Van Caekenberghe [sven(a)beta9.be] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 3:01 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Development Subject: [Pharo-project] Fixed to interrupt behavior Sig en Co, Thanks a lot for the fixed interrupt behavior ! It worked perfectly. This really makes a difference. Sven

Feb. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Trusting Trust

by Philippe Marschall

On 02/07/2012 02:47 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > > This is slightly paranoid thinking, but considering the long evolution > of Smalltalk live images (apparently all the way from the original Xerox > PARC ST80 [1] ) in relation to Ken Thompson's "Reflections on Trusting > Trust" [2] - are there any mechanisms to prevent trojan code living > undetected inside a Smalltalk compiler/decompiler ? Bruce Schneier [3] > provides a shorter overview of [2] if that is not to your taste. > > To what degree might this ever be an issue with Pharo and how might it > be mitigated ? I think it's worse in Pharo because you're never bootstrapping from source. From all you know the tools could be subverted to show you a different code than is actually running in the system. Cheers Philippe

Feb. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Nautilus 4.0

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 07 Feb 2012, at 23:34, Benjamin wrote: > This version introduce: > - a lot of bug fixes > - a better comment pane > - speed increased by 10 (thanks to Camillo) Super, getting better all the time! > Hope you will enjoy it :) Yes. Sven

Feb. 8, 2012