February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 09 Feb 2012, at 22:27, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > My new 1.4 image is behaving a *little* better than its predecessors, but there is still a problem. It seems to happen after invoking Metacello loads, even with the mirror. Odd behaviors include: > > (1) can't open debugger > (2) can't open process browser > (3) intermittent flashing/alternating cursors in text editors. > > Whatever happens, it seems to be saved into the image as MC works, because killing the image and reloading results in a hobbled system. > > At least with 1.4, I can sometimes break into a debugger, presumably because something is busy in a tight loop. That might be a/the parser?? > > BTW, in an hour (max) of playing around, I've generated a 38 MB debug log - too big to read :( There are mentions of a parser, but my grep creativity has not allowed me to pull out any useful information. Perhaps I can start over with a clean log, let it get into some trouble, and review the log at a smaller size. > > Suggestions? Some remarks: - if you load code and it fails for whatever reason, and there was no hidden save somewhere, I would be extremely surprised if killing the image (clean or otherwise) would result in permanent damage; the only side effect could be in your filesystem (local package cache), but even that would normally not hurt the image itself - you are obviously loading lots of stuff: when this does not work, that is not 'Pharo's fault', you should ask the people who wrote these libraries for help (maybe through this list); you can't call gcc crap or unstable when a certain library fails - when you are reporting bugs and ask for help, you really have to bring your problem down to a simple test case that others can reproduce; even if people would want to help you, they cannot do so with these generalizations Sven

Feb. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

My new 1.4 image is behaving a *little* better than its predecessors, but there is still a problem. It seems to happen after invoking Metacello loads, even with the mirror. Odd behaviors include: (1) can't open debugger (2) can't open process browser (3) intermittent flashing/alternating cursors in text editors. Whatever happens, it seems to be saved into the image as MC works, because killing the image and reloading results in a hobbled system. At least with 1.4, I can sometimes break into a debugger, presumably because something is busy in a tight loop. That might be a/the parser?? BTW, in an hour (max) of playing around, I've generated a 38 MB debug log - too big to read :( There are mentions of a parser, but my grep creativity has not allowed me to pull out any useful information. Perhaps I can start over with a clean log, let it get into some trouble, and review the log at a smaller size. Suggestions? Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 3:15 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins One snag: I'm still getting strangely broken images (won't open process browser or debugger) after trying to download some things. I have mirrored squeak source, BUT, some things (SIXX, ODBC) don't appear to have working configs, so I'm trying to grab the latest packages, and *that* might not be mirrored. I might need to specify the mirror server in my code to make them work. Still, I don't get how simply asking MC to download something will permanently mar the image w/o my doing an explicit save. Does MC snapshot before/during an attempted load? It seems very misguided that an innocent attempt to load something can hobble an image?? One other crazy possibility: is killing a vm from the (Ubunutu) system monitor somehow not sufficient to clear what is running? Dumb question? Maybe, but I'm stumped. Any ideas? Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of blake [dsblakewatson(a)gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 2:58 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins I just downloaded the latest CogWin and Pharo 1.4 image and I got "WARNING: Manufactured file handle detected!" at the bottom, and popup full of startup errors. But! It's all actually very friendly! I can look through the errors and try to figure out what caused them. It's way cleaner than the old style mega-DNU-stacks. Nice work! On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > I grabbed 1.4 and cog/unix from jenkins, dumped all the files in one > directory, made a shell script to run the image using Cog, and all I can say > is "wow." > > The usability problems I was having are gone. In particular, the context > menus work. I loaded Migrate and set preferences, with a really nice > appearance resulting. > > One question: why did ClassDescription>>package go away? That seems to be a > really useful message. > > I'll try to build an image using the SqueakSource mirror. No promises, but > 1.4 "suddenly" looks a LOT more polished than it did. Are the links on the > Pharo page old, or did somebody just do a lot of work to make things better? > > Bill > >

Feb. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

I did not load updates - that might be the difference. But there is also a difference in the vm. The web site says to "just use the vm from 1.3" which I took to be the one-click? So I renamed and copied the 1.4 image and changes into the resources directory. It make one think there should be a better way, maybe there is? For this image, I simply dumped 1.4 and Cog-linux from Jenkins into one folder and made a shell script to run the image. Overall, that is a much simpler process. If it is sound, it might be best to reduce the number of links on the site and to recommend the above for using 1.4. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Marcus Denker [marcus.denker(a)inria.fr] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 3:32 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins On Feb 9, 2012, at 9:23 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Miguel, > > Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you misunderstand. Something did change "suddenly" in my experience and (as I ****CLEARLY**** stated in my email), it could easily be that the links on the Pharo site are stale. They are not. At least a) the link to 1.4 points to update 315, which is just 9 updates old. And for sure you would do a "load updates" anyway? The download is just a copy from the build server. (same .zip, renamed), of some days ago. This is used by jenkins. Jenkins does nothing else then "load updates" and save. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins

by Marcus Denker

On Feb 9, 2012, at 9:23 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Miguel, > > Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you misunderstand. Something did change "suddenly" in my experience and (as I ****CLEARLY**** stated in my email), it could easily be that the links on the Pharo site are stale. They are not. At least a) the link to 1.4 points to update 315, which is just 9 updates old. And for sure you would do a "load updates" anyway? The download is just a copy from the build server. (same .zip, renamed), of some days ago. This is used by jenkins. Jenkins does nothing else then "load updates" and save. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Miguel, Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you misunderstand. Something did change "suddenly" in my experience and (as I ****CLEARLY**** stated in my email), it could easily be that the links on the Pharo site are stale. It is also possible that some small change just made it into 1.4, and fixed several things that were wrong. If you would stop looking for ways to be offended, and READ what I wrote and think instead of reacting emotionally, you would see the likely scenarios. No - I'm not kidding. I'm trying to help with marketing. The systems I was downloading from the Pharo site were "just plain broken" and that does not put a good light on the very hard work that goes into the system. Either a small but important change was recently made, OR, the links on the pharo site need to be condense to point to Jenkins. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Miguel CobÃ¡ [miguel.coba(a)gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 3:12 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > > I'll try to build an image using the SqueakSource mirror. No promises, but > 1.4 "suddenly" looks a LOT more polished than it did. Are the links on the > Pharo page old, or did somebody just do a lot of work to make things better? > Are you kidding? How could this possibly "suddenly" happen? What do you think that the Pharo community is doing? Of course isn't suddenly! It is the result of the hard work that Stef, Markus, Igor, INRIA people and the Squeak community (from where a lot of improvements are picked) are doing every day, one step at the time. So, please don't send messages like this. Isn't that "somebody just do a lot work to make things better". It is the result of the long term plan that Pharo was created to fulfill. It is the work of people, with names, with effort invested. This mail is very offensive to the people that, from long ago and with a lot of fights and effort, has been working hard to make a vision a reality. Miguel CobÃ¡

Feb. 9, 2012

[Pharo-project] [update 1.4] #14324

by Marcus Denker

14324 ----- Issue 5269: Add cmd-a/cmd-A on multiple selection PluggableListMorph for select/deselect all http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5269 Issue 5268: CompiledMethod >> receiver:withArguments:executeMethod: should be in class side http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5268 Issue 5240: [ENH]: Make PluggableButtonMorph more lively http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5240 Issue 5228: MorphTreeMorph hide last element when horizontal scrollbar is shown http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5228 -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

One snag: I'm still getting strangely broken images (won't open process browser or debugger) after trying to download some things. I have mirrored squeak source, BUT, some things (SIXX, ODBC) don't appear to have working configs, so I'm trying to grab the latest packages, and *that* might not be mirrored. I might need to specify the mirror server in my code to make them work. Still, I don't get how simply asking MC to download something will permanently mar the image w/o my doing an explicit save. Does MC snapshot before/during an attempted load? It seems very misguided that an innocent attempt to load something can hobble an image?? One other crazy possibility: is killing a vm from the (Ubunutu) system monitor somehow not sufficient to clear what is running? Dumb question? Maybe, but I'm stumped. Any ideas? Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of blake [dsblakewatson(a)gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 2:58 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins I just downloaded the latest CogWin and Pharo 1.4 image and I got "WARNING: Manufactured file handle detected!" at the bottom, and popup full of startup errors. But! It's all actually very friendly! I can look through the errors and try to figure out what caused them. It's way cleaner than the old style mega-DNU-stacks. Nice work! On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > I grabbed 1.4 and cog/unix from jenkins, dumped all the files in one > directory, made a shell script to run the image using Cog, and all I can say > is "wow." > > The usability problems I was having are gone. In particular, the context > menus work. I loaded Migrate and set preferences, with a really nice > appearance resulting. > > One question: why did ClassDescription>>package go away? That seems to be a > really useful message. > > I'll try to build an image using the SqueakSource mirror. No promises, but > 1.4 "suddenly" looks a LOT more polished than it did. Are the links on the > Pharo page old, or did somebody just do a lot of work to make things better? > > Bill > >

Feb. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins

by Miguel CobÃ¡

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > > I'll try to build an image using the SqueakSource mirror.Â No promises, but > 1.4 "suddenly" looks a LOT more polished than it did.Â Are the links on the > Pharo page old, or did somebody just do a lot of work to make things better? > Are you kidding? How could this possibly "suddenly" happen? What do you think that the Pharo community is doing? Of course isn't suddenly! It is the result of the hard work that Stef, Markus, Igor, INRIA people and the Squeak community (from where a lot of improvements are picked) are doing every day, one step at the time. So, please don't send messages like this. Isn't that "somebody just do a lot work to make things better". It is the result of the long term plan that Pharo was created to fulfill. It is the work of people, with names, with effort invested. This mail is very offensive to the people that, from long ago and with a lot of fights and effort, has been working hard to make a vision a reality. Miguel CobÃ¡

Feb. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins

by blake

I just downloaded the latest CogWin and Pharo 1.4 image and I got "WARNING: Manufactured file handle detected!" at the bottom, and popup full of startup errors. But! It's all actually very friendly! I can look through the errors and try to figure out what caused them. It's way cleaner than the old style mega-DNU-stacks. Nice work! On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > I grabbed 1.4 and cog/unix from jenkins, dumped all the files in one > directory, made a shell script to run the image using Cog, and all I can say > is "wow." > > The usability problems I was having are gone.Â In particular, the context > menus work.Â I loaded Migrate and set preferences, with a really nice > appearance resulting. > > One question: why did ClassDescription>>package go away?Â That seems to be a > really useful message. > > I'll try to build an image using the SqueakSource mirror.Â No promises, but > 1.4 "suddenly" looks a LOT more polished than it did.Â Are the links on the > Pharo page old, or did somebody just do a lot of work to make things better? > > Bill > >

Feb. 9, 2012

[Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

I grabbed 1.4 and cog/unix from jenkins, dumped all the files in one directory, made a shell script to run the image using Cog, and all I can say is "wow." The usability problems I was having are gone. In particular, the context menus work. I loaded Migrate and set preferences, with a really nice appearance resulting. One question: why did ClassDescription>>package go away? That seems to be a really useful message. I'll try to build an image using the SqueakSource mirror. No promises, but 1.4 "suddenly" looks a LOT more polished than it did. Are the links on the Pharo page old, or did somebody just do a lot of work to make things better? Bill

Feb. 9, 2012