February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Are Objects really hard?

by Marcus Denker

On Feb 14, 2012, at 1:57 AM, Guido Stepken wrote: > Amazon Cloud even has widely installed "memcached", hat works also as httpd cache, preventing any Apache webserver and indirect Pharo Webserver from "seeing" any http/get request. > This is wrong. Again. > So, i am NOT surprised, that any of those Pharoers doesn't want me here ... Pharo *is* dogsloooooow, Seaside nearly *unusable*. Unusable for any serious business application, unforseeable memory pumping effects, expecially in vservers with limited or even dynamically assigned memory. > So why don't you just leave? I mean, unsubscribe? Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Are Objects really hard?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guido If it helps to insult please do this is free and cheap. You did not even reply to a basic one: how VW compares? None of your past emails got any verifiable information. Too bad. Sven company is exactly using pharo as server, so this contradicts a bit your points but the key difference is that sven shows it to us. Now without any real data and just smoke facts I will not consider your emails anymore. Good luck. Stef > Am 13.02.2012 20:25 schrieb "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > > > > Dear Guido > > Hi Stef! > > > > Do the right things, make Pharo, Seaside *usable* > > > > Did you try with VisualWorks? > > I'm pretty sure that you can use it without paying a license. :) > > > > > > Look at: http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc… > > > > > > Selecting notebooks by price, endurance, weight, with sliders. I could sell *hundreds* of those shops to customers, big companies, hosting inclusive for 20.000 each. > > > > Are you doing such web site? With Seaside? With Pharo? > > Wie started off a project, a shop like this, with Seaside on Pharo, and we had to give up, when benchmarks came into consideration. > > You remember, some time ago, you and Marcus denied all my complaints: > > http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc… > > What has happened? I went on with pushing development of a similar shop (see cyberport.de) and finally lost several 10.000nds of â¬, because Pharo/Seaside *is* much too slow for any serious enterprise. > > > > Pharo/Seaside *is* the right tool if YOU WOULD DO THE RIGHT THINGS, not just bothering some class structure deep in Pharo. > > > > > > Pharo hangs even at *directly* serving static pages at low loads. I hoped to see significant speedups due to lack of any 3/4/5 tier middleware with being everything done within one VM. Database, delivery, â¦ > > > > Provide real code and examples. > > My former complaints (see link above) have been ignored, calling me a Troll, and in the meantime this list *is full* of reports Pharo being unstable. > > You as being the *always optimistic* chief develloper and project manager your lazy attitude already has cost me a lot of â¬!!! More than your annual income! > > But ok, my personal risk! > > > > I am still disappointed. Welcome in the *real world*. Doing academic brainfuck is not sufficient. > > > > :) > > Who are you to know what we are really doing :) > > I follow all changes, i know, hat you are aiming at! But - you've got the wrong priorities! > > Stability *always* comes first!!! > > > > So are your etats for developing Pharo, near ZERO. Start thinking like business men! Listen to that, what customers want! > > > > > > I would be curious to see your "clients". > > I've got best connections to top 500 enterprise and deciders in germany. I would be pleased to present them a Seaside Shop, running on Pharo, PostgreSql or Magma behind, ready to run from within one image. > > > Pharo is far from what we dream about but we are serious about it and we are concerned by business. > > > > Now your trolling is good because we are not an obscure community without a troll but we have one troll > > so this is good. Thanks. > > Ok. If you are not able to get Pharo development managed under consideration of business needs, means: benchmarks and stress tests equiv to sunit tests, please step back as project leader! > > > If you are positive and provide information that is not just bullshitting then we will consider to reply and consider your request else *plonk* > > I am positive, still, although you cost me much money. > > Happy hacking! > > Guido Stepken >

Feb. 14, 2012

[Pharo-project] Installing Spoon and programming a remote image

by Lawson English

This tutorial only shows how to install Spoon on Mac OS X. Very cumbersome currently, but Craig hopes to have it refined ASAP. I thought people could start playing with it NOW, so that he can get feedback immediately. Installing Spoon (Squeak smalltalk extension) on Mac OS X: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zDxVsruaiU This tutorial shows how to compile a method for an existing class in the remote image and send the message to an already existing object of that class in that remote image. Note that the class in the server image doesn't change, just the remote image's class. programming a remote image with spoon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqRQpFkErSw&list=PL6601A198DF14788D&index=64… Lawson

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] how to load rb in pharo 1.4?

by Tudor Girba

Yep, got it. Thanks. Doru On 14 Feb 2012, at 03:01, Camillo Bruni wrote: > AFAIK it's called ConfigurationOfRefactoringBrowser in the Metacello repos ... > > spec > className: 'ConfigurationOfRefactoringBrowser'; > versionString: #'stable'; > repository: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/MetacelloRepository' > > Somebody should > a) open the rb repos for general commit > b) add me as a contributor > c) upload the Config to the rb repos > > On 2012-02-13, at 21:59, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > >> i don't know... but loading ob loads rb too :) >> >> El 13/02/2012, a las 5:44p.m., Tudor Girba escribiÃ³: >> >>> I could not find it. >>> >>> Could someone please point me to the magic invocation? >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On 13 Feb 2012, at 21:21, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 9:20 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> mariano and guillermo did a configuration to load >>>> >>>> Guille did it. I was just a lucky beta tester :) >>>> >>>> shout >>>> OC >>>> RB >>>> in 1.4 >>>> >>>> Check in the mailing-list >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> On Feb 13, 2012, at 9:11 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I lost track of the latests developments around RB. What is the way to load RB in Pharo 1.4? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "What we can governs what we wish." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mariano >>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Obvious things are difficult to teach." >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding."

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] how to load rb in pharo 1.4?

by Jimmie Houchin

On 2/13/2012 2:11 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > I lost track of the latests developments around RB. What is the way to load RB in Pharo 1.4? > > Cheers, > Doru Hello Doru, Below is the content of that thread. Re: Ann: OmniBrowser stable for 1.4 with RB Gofer it squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser'; load. (ConfigurationOfOmniBrowser project version: #stable) load: #( 'Dev' 'Dev Tests'). Gofer new squeaksource: 'Nautilus'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNautilus'; load. ConfigurationOfNautilus loadDefault. Nautilus open Jimmie

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Are Objects really hard?

by Francois Stephany

Hi Guido, > What has happened? I went on with pushing development of a similar shop > (see cyberport.de <http://cyberport.de>) and finally lost several > 10.000nds of â¬, because Pharo/Seaside *is* much too slow for any serious > enterprise. Can you explain a bit more about your setup? You were trying to make a wesite *like* cyberport.de or did you make the *actual* cyberport.de? Where was the leak happening? What was slow? Connection to external DB? HTTP request handling? Have you benchmarked against a simple Zinc? How does it compare to a full stack Seaside? Where does things get slow? Does that happen with Squeak, VW or Gemstone? I use Pharo 1.3+Seaside 3 for http://wapict.be and it handles the load quite well. We do not get millions of hits but it runs well on a small VPS instance. We plan to grow the business and we need to handle much larger loads. Your benchmarks interest me, can you tell me more about your complete setup? How did you lost thousands of euros? Do not tell me that you've spent months in development to realise later that Pharo did not suit your need... Thanks, Francois -- http://tulipemoutarde.be CA: +1 778 558 3225 BE: +32 65 709 131

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Are Objects really hard?

by Guido Stepken

Am 13.02.2012 20:25 schrieb "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse<stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> @ <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>inria.fr <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>>: > > Dear Guido Hi Stef! > > Do the right things, make Pharo, Seaside *usable* > > Did you try with VisualWorks? > I'm pretty sure that you can use it without paying a license. :) > > > Look at: http://<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> www.cyberport.de<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> /<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> notebook<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> -und-<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> tablet<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> /<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> notebook<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> -<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> berater<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> /erweiterte-suche/<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> liste.html<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suc…> > > > > Selecting notebooks by price, endurance, weight, with sliders. I could sell *hundreds* of those shops to customers, big companies, hosting inclusive for 20.000 each. > > Are you doing such web site? With Seaside? With Pharo? Wie started off a project, a shop like this, with Seaside on Pharo, and we had to give up, when benchmarks came into consideration. You remember, some time ago, you and Marcus denied all my complaints: http://<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> forum.world.st<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> /<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> Hanging<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> connects<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> exhausted<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> resources<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> memory<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> leaks<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> bocked<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> everything<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> Unusable<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> -td3669616.html<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-boc…> What has happened? I went on with pushing development of a similar shop (see cyberport.de) and finally lost several 10.000nds of â¬, because Pharo/Seaside *is* much too slow for any serious enterprise. > > Pharo/Seaside *is* the right tool if YOU WOULD DO THE RIGHT THINGS, not just bothering some class structure deep in Pharo. > > > > Pharo hangs even at *directly* serving static pages at low loads. I hoped to see significant speedups due to lack of any 3/4/5 tier middleware with being everything done within one VM. Database, delivery, â¦ > > Provide real code and examples. My former complaints (see link above) have been ignored, calling me a Troll, and in the meantime this list *is full* of reports Pharo being unstable. You as being the *always optimistic* chief develloper and project manager your lazy attitude already has cost me a lot of â¬!!! More than your annual income! But ok, my personal risk! > > I am still disappointed. Welcome in the *real world*. Doing academic brainfuck is not sufficient. > > :) > Who are you to know what we are really doing :) I follow all changes, i know, hat you are aiming at! But - you've got the wrong priorities! Stability *always* comes first!!! > > So are your etats for developing Pharo, near ZERO. Start thinking like business men! Listen to that, what customers want! > > > I would be curious to see your "clients". I've got best connections to top 500 enterprise and deciders in germany. I would be pleased to present them a Seaside Shop, running on Pharo, PostgreSql or Magma behind, ready to run from within one image. > Pharo is far from what we dream about but we are serious about it and we are concerned by business. > > Now your trolling is good because we are not an obscure community without a troll but we have one troll > so this is good. Thanks. Ok. If you are not able to get Pharo development managed under consideration of business needs, means: benchmarks and stress tests equiv to sunit tests, please step back as project leader! > If you are positive and provide information that is not just bullshitting then we will consider to reply and consider your request else *plonk* I am positive, still, although you cost me much money. Happy hacking! Guido Stepken

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [BUG]FSReference(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #asLowercase

by Camillo Bruni

open a bug report, I'll fix it :) we're getting FSFilesystem slowly into the system... the side effects are that some tools might not completely work :/ cami On 2012-02-13, at 21:01, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > On 13 Feb 2012, at 20:34, Alexis Parseghian wrote: > >> Attempting to open a file browser from World menu>Tools > > I can't open it either, it loops. > > Sven >

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] how to load rb in pharo 1.4?

by Camillo Bruni

AFAIK it's called ConfigurationOfRefactoringBrowser in the Metacello repos ... spec className: 'ConfigurationOfRefactoringBrowser'; versionString: #'stable'; repository: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/MetacelloRepository' Somebody should a) open the rb repos for general commit b) add me as a contributor c) upload the Config to the rb repos On 2012-02-13, at 21:59, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > i don't know... but loading ob loads rb too :) > > El 13/02/2012, a las 5:44p.m., Tudor Girba escribiÃ³: > >> I could not find it. >> >> Could someone please point me to the magic invocation? >> >> Doru >> >> >> On 13 Feb 2012, at 21:21, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 9:20 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> mariano and guillermo did a configuration to load >>> >>> Guille did it. I was just a lucky beta tester :) >>> >>> shout >>> OC >>> RB >>> in 1.4 >>> >>> Check in the mailing-list >>> >>> Stef >>> On Feb 13, 2012, at 9:11 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I lost track of the latests developments around RB. What is the way to load RB in Pharo 1.4? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "What we can governs what we wish." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Obvious things are difficult to teach." >> >> >> >> > >

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Are Objects really hard?

by Guido Stepken

Amazon Cloud even has widely installed "memcached", hat works also as httpd cache, preventing any Apache webserver and indirect Pharo Webserver from "seeing" any http/get request. So, i am NOT surprised, that any of those Pharoers doesn't want me here ... Pharo *is* dogsloooooow, Seaside nearly *unusable*. Unusable for any serious business application, unforseeable memory pumping effects, expecially in vservers with limited or even dynamically assigned memory. I will open Benchmarks later ... happy hacking! best, Guido Stepken Am 13.02.2012 17:53 schrieb "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)beta9.be>: > > On 13 Feb 2012, at 17:25, Guido Stepken wrote: > > > Hahaha! You are running Apache Server in Front, caching all I/O, leaving > no load for Pharo at all, serving static webpages even. > > Of course I am not: Apache 2 mod_proxy doesn't do any caching at all, it > is only load balancing, but to know that you have to be able to read. > > Furthermore, Apache serving static files is way faster than that, > something most people know, you apparently not. > > And just for the record: I am comparing Pharo with other dynamic languages > for dynamically generated content. > > Anyway, do you have anything useful to contribute ? >

Feb. 14, 2012