February 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Feedback from lecture :(

by Lukas Renggli

>> students in the lecture on windows downloaded cogvm I do not from whereâ¦ >> and used pharo1.3 and >> some experienced crashes. > > This has been reported at least 10 times per week since the last 6 months. > The VMs of the one click are FUC.. old and buggy. If nobody have time to > make a new one click (we are all busy), please please please, remove it from > the website. We give so much bad impression. It is worst than having no one > click. You cannot say that, because I updated the One-Click distribution less than a month ago: https://github.com/renggli/builder/commit/7623726096db2e3fa58eefe267c62ba17… People using this code get the latest available CogVM. The problem is that Pharo maintains its own unmaintained fork. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Nautilus Refactorings

by Noury Bouraqadi

Cool. I'll give it a try. I'm like mariano, luc and other waiting for RB support to start using Nautilus as the default browser. Noury On 14 fÃ©vr. 2012, at 18:39, Benjamin wrote: > Hello guys, > > I know a some of you are waiting for the integration of the RB engine into Nautilus. > > Some of them are already implemented, so if you wanna test them, here is the gofer script > > Gofer new > url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Nautilus'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfNautilus'; > load. > > (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfNautilusRefactoring) perform: #loadDefault > > > It loads everything. > > For now I have only done some refactorings for classes, so if you popup the menu on a class, a new item named Refactoring should appear :) > > Moreover, the 'rename class' method is replaced by the RB one :) > > > Thanks in advance for your feedback, and if you want to participate, you are more than welcome :) > > > Ben Noury -- http://twitter.com/#!/NouryBouraqadi http://www.kroobe.com/profile/noury

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Feedback from lecture :(

by Igor Stasenko

On 14 February 2012 19:50, Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > Hi! > > My suggestion: Drop COGVM. Expecially in the One click Image. Bad for Pharos > reputation at that point of development. LLVM is much better choice. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7-Mjx6khr8 > > Very interesting to see Squeak/Pharo running in CHROME. With "native client > bridge", so objects, data may be handed over to Javascript engine ... > > Makes more sense for me than a isolated VM, no touch, ... > Hello again. In another thread. :) Now just for the record, what you see here? You see a Squeak VM, compiled for NaCl. Yes, the very same VM which is used by Pharo. You can also discover that very same VM is run on various devices/environments without much changes. Now you proposing to drop it, and use what instead? LLVM? What is LLVM? Here , read: The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. Despite its name, LLVM has little to do with traditional virtual machines, though it does provide helpful libraries that can be used to build them. --- So, it means that someone has to reimplement the whole thing on top of LLVM, just to make the very same thing again, which we having already. Good idea. Now go and do it. > Have fun, Guido Stepken > > > 2012/2/14 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >> >> students in the lecture on windows downloaded cogvm I do not from whereâ¦ >> and used pharo1.3 and >> some experienced crashes. >> >> We will have to brand these vms because the situation is getting >> difficult. >> I do not imagine how we can track these problems. >> >> Stef > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Feedback from lecture :(

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 7:35 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > students in the lecture on windows downloaded cogvm I do not from whereâ¦ > and used pharo1.3 and > some experienced crashes. > This has been reported at least 10 times per week since the last 6 months. The VMs of the one click are FUC.. old and buggy. If nobody have time to make a new one click (we are all busy), please please please, remove it from the website. We give so much bad impression. It is worst than having no one click. > > We will have to brand these vms because the situation is getting difficult. > No, that's a second step. Put it in Jenkins is the third. Do the first step: do a new OneClick BY HAND, with latest Cog, even without "pharo blessing". That way new comers will not run away from pharo beacuse it crashes. > I do not imagine how we can track these problems. > > Stef > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Are Objects really hard?

by Guido Stepken

Get the development process developed!

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Feedback from lecture :(

by Guido Stepken

Known Windows oplocks problem. Disable caching, re-activate oplocks 2012/2/14 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > Some crashes on Windows here too with Pharo 1.3 and CogVM from Pharo > website. Especially when the .image is on a windows network share. > > Laurent > > > On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 7:35 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> students in the lecture on windows downloaded cogvm I do not from whereâ¦ >> and used pharo1.3 and >> some experienced crashes. >> >> We will have to brand these vms because the situation is getting >> difficult. >> I do not imagine how we can track these problems. >> >> Stef >> > >

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Are Objects really hard?

by Igor Stasenko

On 14 February 2012 19:36, Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > 2012/2/14 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> >> >> >> Now seriously, do you really think that people here are not considered >> all of things you listed, >> and not trying to improve things in those directions? > > > Don't see benchmarks anywhere on Pharo Homepage, even the 1.3 Image was not > up to date for long time. Nobody really cared. > > Stef as project leader missed to set up "daily todo list", list of dutys for > the developers, payed or unpayed, doesn't play any role! > > Choosing the *right* development process decides over the quality an speed > of a product, free or unfree. > >> >> Also, do you have any idea how many man-hours it may require to >> implement all items in your list? > > > Yes, 4-5 manyears? So, why reinventing the wheel, like with COGVM? LLVM ist > much better supported by big, big, commercial companies. > >> >> And even if you can estimate it, do you have any idea where to find >> such massive amount of human resource for such activities? > > > I wish, you would lean the profession of fundraising for Pharo. Set up an > auction homepage, file out code to be refactored, or to be programmed, with > call for bids, name the price, collect money. And you will see, there are > thousands of Smalltalkers outside being a still reserve ... solving Pharo > problems for a few bucks, mostly located in Asia, Russia, India. > > In India a Smalltalk developer is about 600$/Month. Fully qualified. > >> >> And most of >> all, are those people will work for free, based on their enthusiasm, >> or well paid? > > > See above, wrong development process. > >> >> >> Because if you pay to people, then you having full right to demand >> things to be done right and >> in right term. But if you don't, then just please shut up and stop >> bashing people who doing everything >> for free, so you can use it paying NOTHING. > > > I am not bashing. You all don't understand how to set up successful > projects. > Reading your comments, i now have only single question left: if you know things so well, why you just don't organize own project, set things up as you know right, make auctions/hire indians/martians/whatever is best for you to meet the objectives you have in mind? Why relying on stupid people who don't want to listen and seemingly don't understand what/how things should run, when you can do it by yourself? Like the idea? Now get lost and start making it real. >> >> >> So, next time you will say that you lost a bunch of money because of >> Pharo, i'd like to also see an attached figures the amount of money >> you invested into Pharo project. >> > > Where is the list of sponsors for your Pharo projekt on the homepage? > Private, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum? The topten list of committers? > > Have fun, Guido Stepken -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Feedback from lecture :(

by laurent laffont

Some crashes on Windows here too with Pharo 1.3 and CogVM from Pharo website. Especially when the .image is on a windows network share. Laurent On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 7:35 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > students in the lecture on windows downloaded cogvm I do not from whereâ¦ > and used pharo1.3 and > some experienced crashes. > > We will have to brand these vms because the situation is getting difficult. > I do not imagine how we can track these problems. > > Stef >

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Feedback from lecture :(

by Guido Stepken

Hi! My suggestion: Drop COGVM. Expecially in the One click Image. Bad for Pharos reputation at that point of development. LLVM is much better choice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7-Mjx6khr8 Very interesting to see Squeak/Pharo running in CHROME. With "native client bridge", so objects, data may be handed over to Javascript engine ... Makes more sense for me than a isolated VM, no touch, ... Have fun, Guido Stepken 2012/2/14 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > students in the lecture on windows downloaded cogvm I do not from whereâ¦ > and used pharo1.3 and > some experienced crashes. > > We will have to brand these vms because the situation is getting difficult. > I do not imagine how we can track these problems. > > Stef >

Feb. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Are Objects really hard?

by Guido Stepken

2012/2/14 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > > > Now seriously, do you really think that people here are not considered > all of things you listed, > and not trying to improve things in those directions? > Don't see benchmarks anywhere on Pharo Homepage, even the 1.3 Image was not up to date for long time. Nobody really cared. Stef as project leader missed to set up "daily todo list", list of dutys for the developers, payed or unpayed, doesn't play any role! Choosing the *right* development process decides over the quality an speed of a product, free or unfree. > Also, do you have any idea how many man-hours it may require to > implement all items in your list? > Yes, 4-5 manyears? So, why reinventing the wheel, like with COGVM? LLVM ist much better supported by big, big, commercial companies. > And even if you can estimate it, do you have any idea where to find > such massive amount of human resource for such activities? I wish, you would lean the profession of fundraising for Pharo. Set up an auction homepage, file out code to be refactored, or to be programmed, with call for bids, name the price, collect money. And you will see, there are thousands of Smalltalkers outside being a still reserve ... solving Pharo problems for a few bucks, mostly located in Asia, Russia, India. In India a Smalltalk developer is about 600$/Month. Fully qualified. > And most of > all, are those people will work for free, based on their enthusiasm, > or well paid? > See above, wrong development process. > > Because if you pay to people, then you having full right to demand > things to be done right and > in right term. But if you don't, then just please shut up and stop > bashing people who doing everything > for free, so you can use it paying NOTHING. > I am not bashing. You all don't understand how to set up successful projects. > > So, next time you will say that you lost a bunch of money because of > Pharo, i'd like to also see an attached figures the amount of money > you invested into Pharo project. > > Where is the list of sponsors for your Pharo projekt on the homepage? Private, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum? The topten list of committers? Have fun, Guido Stepken

Feb. 14, 2012