December 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] UTC seconds in Pharo 2.0

by David T. Lewis

I wanted to see if I can update TimeZoneDatabase (Olson tz data) for Pharo 2.0, but I am encountering a basic time conversion issue. I don't know the background on the Chronology changes in Pharo, so I'll just try to describe the issue as I understand it: I am in Michigan, so my time zone offset is 5 hours: DateAndTime now offset ==> -0:05:00:00 Pharo 2.0 does this (wrong): DateAndTime now - (DateAndTime fromSeconds: DateAndTime totalSeconds) ==> 0:05:00:00.334 Previously it did this (right): DateAndTime now - (DateAndTime fromSeconds: DateAndTime totalSeconds) ==> 0:00:00:00.444 Explanation: #totalSeconds reports seconds in local time, but #fromSeconds: in Pharo 2.0 is using UTC. One or the other of these must be wrong. Possible fix(?): Newer VMs have primitives that report UTC time. Use one of these instead of the local time primitive currently being used. Dave

Dec. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Combining Regular Monticello with Github/FileTree

by Camillo Bruni

On 2012-12-01, at 18:16, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > HI camillo > > I should release the changes I did: I grouped Job related classes into Kernel-Job > and all the progressBar related class into Morphic-Progressbar and this is cool to get them grouped like that. sounds like a good idea ;). Hmm though the visual part should be separate, since we planned to write a nice command-line visualization for the progress. Hence all the UI part should be in a separate package.. (well, let me see your code first, before I start complaining :P) can you commit that somewhere in the inbox?

Dec. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Getting started with Athens

by Ben Coman

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > On Nov 29, 2012, at 5:50 PM, Vanessa PeÃ±a Araya wrote: > > >> Stef, >> >> With Ze great Stef? Incredible, indeed :) >> I'll start putting down my questions and learning then. Can you tell me when you will be starting? I'll start the one for Roassal soon. >> > > I will also ask tristan to join because he will work on athens for a large industrial :). > > Stef > > Would that touch on implementing any industrial communications protocols, like Modbus[1]? I plan to try implementing Modbus next year after I get a few other things out of the way. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modbus "Simple and robust, it has since become a de facto standard communication protocol, and it is now amongst the most commonly available means of connecting industrial electronic devices."

Dec. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Getting started with Athens

by Igor Stasenko

On 30 November 2012 14:54, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Nov 29, 2012, at 5:50 PM, Vanessa PeÃ±a Araya wrote: > >> Stef, >> >> With Ze great Stef? Incredible, indeed :) >> I'll start putting down my questions and learning then. Can you tell me when you will be starting? I'll start the one for Roassal soon. > > I will also ask tristan to join because he will work on athens for a large industrial :). > Yes, he was met me couple days ago. I shown him some bits. > Stef -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Dec. 2, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Redline Smalltalk on heroku ....

by Frank Shearar

On 1 December 2012 20:22, Sebastian Nozzi <sebnozzi(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2012/12/1 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >> IMO, the secret of Smalltalk is a delicate combination of elements, take some out and the magic is gone. > > Fully agree. Only a "pure" or "classical" Smalltalk would give you > that "magic", the true "experience". > > But I think, and hope, that the Redline developers are aware of that. > I can imagine that they are trading off some of the "experience" in > order to gain library support and toolchain integration (like > deploying to heroku, in this case). > >> Java/JVM makes a distinction between int and Integer (and so on), cannot add methods to closed classes, >> has some meta capacity but not all, needs much more typing, cannot change many things at run time, and so â¦ > > Yes, ok, but you are comparing Java to Smalltalk, which is not the > case. You have languages running on top of the JVM, like JRuby, that > also kind of conform to the Smalltalk idea (no primitives, everything > is an object, you can modify classes at runtime, extend/open them, > etc.) > >> The question is: how much do you need for it to be this magical Smalltalk thing ? > > The question is: how much of the "magic" of Smalltalk can you live > WITHOUT. If your answer is "zero" then Redline is clearly not for you > ;-) > >> Objective-C is also clearly Smalltalk inspired, > > Being it a compied language, for me the experience is also lacking. Smalltalk _is_ compiled. >> more so than Java, (dynamic typing / messaging) >> but you can hardly call it a real Smalltalk system/experience. > > Yes, completely agree. For me just because it has to be compiled. The > second I have to re-start the application to see the changes reflected > the magic is gone. If I cannot interact with objects, add/remove > methods/variables, change the class hierachy, etc. while running, the > magick is gone. Nothing beats Smalltalk's "experience". But this is, I think, the nub of your argument: it's not about compiling or interpreting. It's about the interaction with a running system versus write-run-pray. Ruby is in many ways very close to Smalltalk (even though it has a horrific syntax), but the usual way of writing it (in my experience at least) is much like working in Java: write something, run something, examine the output. frank > Cheers, > > Sebastian >

Dec. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Redline Smalltalk on heroku ....

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Dec 1, 2012, at 10:19 PM, Sebastian Nozzi wrote: > You're right, sorry :-) :) > > 2012/12/1 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> Hi guys >> >> just for your information this mailing-list is Pharo-development. You can discuss a lot of topics in Pharo-users >> but in Pharo-dev we would really appreciate to get a bit focused. >> I try to read all the mails to be able to help people but it means processing a lot of mails :) >> and I really have a lot of duties that are not pharo related and I would appreciate to get my pharo time for pharo. >> >> Stef >> >> >> On Dec 1, 2012, at 9:52 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> >>>> Ok, wow. Didn't know that. >>>> >>>> So, whenever I change a class, I have both the old version and the new >>>> version co-existing? >>>> And then the instances are told to become: instances of the new class? >>> >>> Yes >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>>> >>>> 2012/12/1 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>: >>>>>> Are there some vital things that are impossible if #become: is >>>>>> missing? (no irony in my question, I just don't know) >>>>> >>>>> Changing a class on the fly. #become: is used behind the scene >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>

Dec. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Redline Smalltalk on heroku ....

by Sebastian Nozzi

You're right, sorry :-) 2012/12/1 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > Hi guys > > just for your information this mailing-list is Pharo-development. You can discuss a lot of topics in Pharo-users > but in Pharo-dev we would really appreciate to get a bit focused. > I try to read all the mails to be able to help people but it means processing a lot of mails :) > and I really have a lot of duties that are not pharo related and I would appreciate to get my pharo time for pharo. > > Stef > > > On Dec 1, 2012, at 9:52 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >>> Ok, wow. Didn't know that. >>> >>> So, whenever I change a class, I have both the old version and the new >>> version co-existing? >>> And then the instances are told to become: instances of the new class? >> >> Yes >> >> Alexandre >> >>> >>> 2012/12/1 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>: >>>>> Are there some vital things that are impossible if #become: is >>>>> missing? (no irony in my question, I just don't know) >>>> >>>> Changing a class on the fly. #become: is used behind the scene >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >

Dec. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Combining Regular Monticello with Github/FileTree

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

HI camillo I should release the changes I did: I grouped Job related classes into Kernel-Job and all the progressBar related class into Morphic-Progressbar and this is cool to get them grouped like that. Stef On Nov 30, 2012, at 11:25 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > > On 2012-11-30, at 19:22, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >> I have been using both Github/FileTree and Monticello for STON this week, and things have definitively progressed. Thank you, Dale & friends. >> >> It does seem that I have to save a version to Github/FileTree first and then copy it to Monticello (ss3) and not the other way around - otherwise things seem to get messed up. So Github/FileTree is sticky ;-) >> >> Sven >> >> PS: in th FileTree code that I am using (from Metacello/Pharo 2.0) there is a small UI problem: >> >> SmallInteger>>/ >> Job>>progress >> JobChange>>progress >> SystemProgressMorph class>>updateJob: >> MessageSend>>value: >> MessageSend>>cull: >> MessageSend>>cull:cull: >> AnnouncementSubscription>>deliver: in Block: [action cull: anAnnouncement cull: announcer] >> BlockClosure>>on:do: >> BlockClosure>>on:fork: in Block: [Processor terminateActive] > > my bad, I have to finish my Job/ProgressBar refactoring :P

Dec. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Redline Smalltalk on heroku ....

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys just for your information this mailing-list is Pharo-development. You can discuss a lot of topics in Pharo-users but in Pharo-dev we would really appreciate to get a bit focused. I try to read all the mails to be able to help people but it means processing a lot of mails :) and I really have a lot of duties that are not pharo related and I would appreciate to get my pharo time for pharo. Stef On Dec 1, 2012, at 9:52 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> Ok, wow. Didn't know that. >> >> So, whenever I change a class, I have both the old version and the new >> version co-existing? >> And then the instances are told to become: instances of the new class? > > Yes > > Alexandre > >> >> 2012/12/1 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>: >>>> Are there some vital things that are impossible if #become: is >>>> missing? (no irony in my question, I just don't know) >>> >>> Changing a class on the fly. #become: is used behind the scene > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > >

Dec. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Redline Smalltalk on heroku ....

by Alexandre Bergel

> Ok, wow. Didn't know that. > > So, whenever I change a class, I have both the old version and the new > version co-existing? > And then the instances are told to become: instances of the new class? Yes Alexandre > > 2012/12/1 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>: >>> Are there some vital things that are impossible if #become: is >>> missing? (no irony in my question, I just don't know) >> >> Changing a class on the fly. #become: is used behind the scene -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 1, 2012