December 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] strange == behavior

by Ciprian Teodorov

It seems that this issue can be fixed by modifying the = method in Association. Association>>= anAssociation ^ super = anAssociation and: [ value == anAssociation value ifTrue: [ true ] ifFalse: [ value = anAssociation value ] ] Cheers... On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Same behavior in Squeak 4.2 btw > > ----------------- > Benoit St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. > (Albert Einstein) > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ciprian Teodorov <ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com> > *To:* Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > *Sent:* Saturday, December 8, 2012 11:11:44 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] strange == behavior > > by the way, we have the same thing in 1.0, 1.1, 1.3. > > On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Ciprian Teodorov < > ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi guys, > > Playing with some recursive data-structure I have found some strange piece > of behavior in Pharo. > > If in an workspace we try to evaluate: > > a := Association new. > a key: 3. > a value: a. > a == a value. > > the first time we get "true", the second we get an infinite loop... > > A simple workaround is to declare "a": > > |a| > a := Association new. > a key: 3. > a value: a. > a == a value. > > My question now is: Is this a bug or a feature ? > By the way the same thing happens in 1.4 and 2.0 equally. > > By the way, in Pharo 2.0 doing cmd + . erases the lines selected in the > workspace replacing them by "." > > Cheers, > -- > Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV > IngÃ©nieur DÃ©veloppement CAO > > tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 > mail : ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com > www.teodorov.ro > > > > > -- > Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV > IngÃ©nieur DÃ©veloppement CAO > > tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 > mail : ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com > www.teodorov.ro > > > -- Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV IngÃ©nieur DÃ©veloppement CAO tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 mail : ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com www.teodorov.ro

Dec. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] strange == behavior

by Benoit St-Jean

Same behavior in Squeak 4.2 btw Â ----------------- Benoit St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. (Albert Einstein) >________________________________ > From: Ciprian Teodorov <ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com> >To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 11:11:44 AM >Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] strange == behavior > > >by the way, we have the same thing in 1.0, 1.1, 1.3. > > >On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Ciprian Teodorov <ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >Hi guys, >> >> >>Playing with some recursive data-structure I have found some strange piece of behavior in Pharo. >> >> >>If in an workspace we try to evaluate: >> >> >>a := Association new. >>a key: 3. >>a value: a. >>a == a value. >> >> >>the first time we get "true", the second we get an infinite loop...Â >> >> >>A simple workaround is to declare "a": >> >> >>|a| >>a := Association new. >>a key: 3. >>a value: a. >>a == a value. >> >> >>My question now is: Is this a bug or a feature ? >>By the way the same thing happens in 1.4 and 2.0 equally. >> >> >>By the way, in Pharo 2.0 doing cmd + . erases the lines selected in the workspace replacing them by "."Â >> >> >>Cheers,-- >>Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV >>IngÃ©nieurÂ DÃ©veloppementÂ CAO >> >>tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 >>mail :Â ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com >>www.teodorov.ro >> > > > >-- >Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV >IngÃ©nieurÂ DÃ©veloppementÂ CAO > >tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 >mail :Â ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com >www.teodorov.ro > > >

Dec. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] strange == behavior

by Ciprian Teodorov

by the way, we have the same thing in 1.0, 1.1, 1.3. On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Ciprian Teodorov <ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com > wrote: > Hi guys, > > Playing with some recursive data-structure I have found some strange piece > of behavior in Pharo. > > If in an workspace we try to evaluate: > > a := Association new. > a key: 3. > a value: a. > a == a value. > > the first time we get "true", the second we get an infinite loop... > > A simple workaround is to declare "a": > > |a| > a := Association new. > a key: 3. > a value: a. > a == a value. > > My question now is: Is this a bug or a feature ? > By the way the same thing happens in 1.4 and 2.0 equally. > > By the way, in Pharo 2.0 doing cmd + . erases the lines selected in the > workspace replacing them by "." > > Cheers, > -- > Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV > IngÃ©nieur DÃ©veloppement CAO > > tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 > mail : ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com > www.teodorov.ro > -- Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV IngÃ©nieur DÃ©veloppement CAO tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 mail : ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com www.teodorov.ro

Dec. 8, 2012

[Pharo-project] strange == behavior

by Ciprian Teodorov

Hi guys, Playing with some recursive data-structure I have found some strange piece of behavior in Pharo. If in an workspace we try to evaluate: a := Association new. a key: 3. a value: a. a == a value. the first time we get "true", the second we get an infinite loop... A simple workaround is to declare "a": |a| a := Association new. a key: 3. a value: a. a == a value. My question now is: Is this a bug or a feature ? By the way the same thing happens in 1.4 and 2.0 equally. By the way, in Pharo 2.0 doing cmd + . erases the lines selected in the workspace replacing them by "." Cheers, -- Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV IngÃ©nieur DÃ©veloppement CAO tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 mail : ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com www.teodorov.ro

Dec. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] eating some obsolete dog food

by Ben Coman

Nicolas Cellier wrote: > This is a long time since I did not contribute to Pharo, so I tried > with something easy... > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7108 > > I downloaded latest successful build, > Pharo2.0a > Latest update: #20433 > > Then I updated the 5 methods from a MC merge, and... > Err... I cannot type my initials ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H full name > The dialog insists on selecting any letter I type and next letter will > override the previous one. > I finally published anonymously, that does not matter... > > But you know the impact of a first bad UI impression... > It would ruin tons of efforts I know you spent cleaning the infrastructure. > I believe such cleaning is very ambitious and rarely rewarding in the > short term... > But I'd really like to be more supportive, it's so essential for > building the future. > > So before ranting loud, I digged a bit further: could it be this > warning I had at startup about obsolete VM, yes that was it! > So if you are episodic user like me : > > ******** DON'T FORGET TO DOWNLOAD A PHARO SPECIFIC VM ************* > > I already spent way more time on this than I wished, hope my mistake > helps someone else. > ( over-estimating pharo planned obsolescence period is indeed a > mistake ;) why would the VM be handled differently ? ) > > Last thing, maybe you should insist on the download page that 2.0 > REQUIRES a pharo specific VM. > Not sure I would have read it, but then it would be entirely my fault. > > Nicolas > > > Or... for 2.0 Beta and 2.0 Release provide only a one-click package. If anyone wants just the image, they can get it from the CI server.

Dec. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] eating some obsolete dog food

by Benjamin

I think that we should really distinguish the messages that can be ignored (and then use "growl") from the messages that require to be read (like this one) and in this case, it should be in a DialogWindow Ben On Dec 8, 2012, at 10:41 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > Hi, > > AFAIK, actually there is an information about VMs being too old (Camillo added it when we changed the FilePlugin). It is shown in "growl" so perhaps it is easy to not see it, but is there (or should be there) :) > > Also, newcomers will most probably download the one-click image, which will come with a fashion, branded new VM :) > > Esteban > > On Dec 8, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >> >> On 07 Dec 2012, at 23:59, Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> So before ranting loud, I digged a bit further: could it be this >>> warning I had at startup about obsolete VM, yes that was it! >>> So if you are episodic user like me : >>> >>> ******** DON'T FORGET TO DOWNLOAD A PHARO SPECIFIC VM ************* >>> >>> I already spent way more time on this than I wished, hope my mistake >>> helps someone else. >>> ( over-estimating pharo planned obsolescence period is indeed a >>> mistake ;) why would the VM be handled differently ? ) >>> >>> Last thing, maybe you should insist on the download page that 2.0 >>> REQUIRES a pharo specific VM. >>> Not sure I would have read it, but then it would be entirely my fault. >> >> Nicolas makes a very valid point; the first, out-of-the-box experience is massively important. >> Pharo 2.0 does indeed require a newer VM in my experience (related to FileSystem at least). >> The image _HAS_ to warn about this. >> It is just that the compatibilty test should not be more strict than absolutely necessary. >> >> -- >> Sven Van Caekenberghe >> http://stfx.eu >> Smalltalk is the Red Pill >> >> >> >> > >

Dec. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Please use 20431 I rollback 20432 and 20433

by Marcus Denker

On Dec 8, 2012, at 9:29 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Dec 8, 2012, at 9:25 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> Sorry for my mistake. I rollbacked 20432 and 20433 since the changes are too intrusive. > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-2.0/75/ > I have manually updated http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/ci/image/20/ latest.zip is 20431, I deleted 20432 and 20433 (one thing that is strange is that I did a 20432 update, tooâ¦ so somehow this was strange). Marcus

Dec. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] eating some obsolete dog food

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, AFAIK, actually there is an information about VMs being too old (Camillo added it when we changed the FilePlugin). It is shown in "growl" so perhaps it is easy to not see it, but is there (or should be there) :) Also, newcomers will most probably download the one-click image, which will come with a fashion, branded new VM :) Esteban On Dec 8, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 07 Dec 2012, at 23:59, Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> So before ranting loud, I digged a bit further: could it be this >> warning I had at startup about obsolete VM, yes that was it! >> So if you are episodic user like me : >> >> ******** DON'T FORGET TO DOWNLOAD A PHARO SPECIFIC VM ************* >> >> I already spent way more time on this than I wished, hope my mistake >> helps someone else. >> ( over-estimating pharo planned obsolescence period is indeed a >> mistake ;) why would the VM be handled differently ? ) >> >> Last thing, maybe you should insist on the download page that 2.0 >> REQUIRES a pharo specific VM. >> Not sure I would have read it, but then it would be entirely my fault. > > Nicolas makes a very valid point; the first, out-of-the-box experience is massively important. > Pharo 2.0 does indeed require a newer VM in my experience (related to FileSystem at least). > The image _HAS_ to warn about this. > It is just that the compatibilty test should not be more strict than absolutely necessary. > > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > http://stfx.eu > Smalltalk is the Red Pill > > > >

Dec. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] eating some obsolete dog food

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 07 Dec 2012, at 23:59, Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > So before ranting loud, I digged a bit further: could it be this > warning I had at startup about obsolete VM, yes that was it! > So if you are episodic user like me : > > ******** DON'T FORGET TO DOWNLOAD A PHARO SPECIFIC VM ************* > > I already spent way more time on this than I wished, hope my mistake > helps someone else. > ( over-estimating pharo planned obsolescence period is indeed a > mistake ;) why would the VM be handled differently ? ) > > Last thing, maybe you should insist on the download page that 2.0 > REQUIRES a pharo specific VM. > Not sure I would have read it, but then it would be entirely my fault. Nicolas makes a very valid point; the first, out-of-the-box experience is massively important. Pharo 2.0 does indeed require a newer VM in my experience (related to FileSystem at least). The image _HAS_ to warn about this. It is just that the compatibilty test should not be more strict than absolutely necessary. -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill

Dec. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] eating some obsolete dog food

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> >> Yes, we should mention that, especially since 2.0 now entered beta stage. >> >> But apart from this, i am really surprised that you was unable to upload MC >> package with 'obsolete' VM.. > > No problem to load/merge MC,. > The problem I encountered was most probably related to keyboard events > and their interpretation. > It disappeared using correct VM. May be this is related to the semaphore input on the windows vm but this is quite old. Stef

Dec. 8, 2012