December 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Unable to run pharo on Ubuntu 12.10

by dimitris chloupis

Thanks for helping me out pharo -v pharo: command not found ldd pharo Â Â Â linux-gate.so.1 =>Â (0xf779f000) Â Â Â libm.so.6 => /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libm.so.6 (0xf7755000) Â Â Â libdl.so.2 => /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libdl.so.2 (0xf7750000) Â Â Â libpthread.so.0 => /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0 (0xf7734000) Â Â Â libc.so.6 => /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0xf758a000) Â Â Â /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf77a0000) Yes my project is called "Ephestos" and yes I could still target Blender, though I am also considering focusing more on extending Pharo. If I get it to work that is , because I am certainly motivated but learning all these stuff is very time consuming so far. My goal is to keep adding new graphic , music and IDE tools to pharo. Blender integration is relatively easy since I am quite familiar with python. My ambition so far is to offer an interactive tutorial tool, flexible GUI designer and a painting application (basic funcionality at first)Â in the next 1-2 years to pharo, together of course with the blender / python bridge. I am also interested in creating a pharo front end for super collider for audio synthesis and music composition. Thats tons of stuff, but I am not in any hurry if pharo can accomodate my needs I can invest even decades if that is what it takes. I just like to spend an hour per day for coding and I was tired working on small insignificant projects so I decided to beging a big one :D If you say that it works for you on ubuntu 12.10 64 then certainly something I am doing wrong here. ________________________________ From: Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> To: dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Monday, 10 December 2012, 16:08 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Unable to run pharo on Ubuntu 12.10 Le 10/12/2012 14:55, dimitris chloupis a Ã©crit : > no I was not aware that it could not be done, worked fine for Macos (I > am mostly a mac developer which is what I use at home, I use pcs only at > work)Â so I assumed the same applied for Ubuntu I think that Pharo seems to have better integration on Mac OS; Linux has issues (but I do use Linux, 12.10 and 12.04 exclusively, and I use both Pharo 1.4 and 2.0) > I installed the package , still its unable to run it. Getting the same error Strange. This is all I need on my system (or it seems to). Can you go into your Pharo1.4 directory, in Contents/Linux, and there, in a terminal, try to run the following two commands : pharo -v and ldd pharo. > I used the second answer to this question as a guide to install the > package --> > http://askubuntu.com/questions/107230/what-happened-to-the-ia32-libs-package Yes, this should be enough. I'm looking with interest where you will end up with your Pharo + Blender project. Is that right ? Are you still looking at that ? Regards, Thierry > " > > Â Â Â > If you get that error, try: > > |sudo apt-get update > | > > Then try it again: > > |sudo apt-get install ia32-libs" > | > > I just did a fresh install of 12.04, that package is still available in > the repositories. In fact, I got that error myself before I ran update. > Afterwards, it worked fine. > > > " > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> > *To:* Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis > <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > *Sent:* Monday, 10 December 2012, 15:27 > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] Unable to run pharo on Ubuntu 12.10 > > Le 10/12/2012 14:22, dimitris chloupis a Ã©crit : >Â > I try to double click the Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh , even after going to >Â > properties and enabling allow excuting file as programm does nothing. >Â > And running from terminal prints the following >Â > >Â > exloupis@ephestos:~/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app$ sudo >Â > ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh >Â > ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh: line 26: >Â > /home/exloupis/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app/Contents/Linux/pharo: >Â > Permission denied >Â > ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh: line 26: exec: >Â > /home/exloupis/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app/Contents/Linux/pharo: >Â > cannot execute: Permission denied >Â > >Â > Any idea why ? > > Have you loaded the ia32-libs package ? Are you on 12.10 64bits ? > > Pharo is a 32bits application; it doesn't run as-is on a 64 bits linux > install. > > Regards, > > Thierry > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Dec. 10, 2012

[Pharo-project] Fw: Unable to run pharo on Ubuntu 12.10

by dimitris chloupis

no I was not aware that it could not be done, worked fine for Macos (I am mostly a mac developer which is what I use at home, I use pcs only at work)Â so I assumed the same applied for Ubuntu I installed the package , still its unable to run it. Getting the same error I used the second answer to this question as a guide to install the package --> http://askubuntu.com/questions/107230/what-happened-to-the-ia32-libs-package " If you get that error, try: sudo apt-get update Then try it again: sudo apt-get install ia32-libs" I just did a fresh install of 12.04, that package is still available in the repositories. In fact, I got that error myself before I ran update. Afterwards, it worked fine. " ________________________________ From: Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Monday, 10 December 2012, 15:27 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Unable to run pharo on Ubuntu 12.10 Le 10/12/2012 14:22, dimitris chloupis a Ã©crit : > I try to double click the Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh , even after going to > properties and enabling allow excuting file as programm does nothing. > And running from terminal prints the following > > exloupis@ephestos:~/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app$ sudo > ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh > ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh: line 26: > /home/exloupis/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app/Contents/Linux/pharo: > Permission denied > ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh: line 26: exec: > /home/exloupis/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app/Contents/Linux/pharo: > cannot execute: Permission denied > > Any idea why ? Have you loaded the ia32-libs package ? Are you on 12.10 64bits ? Pharo is a 32bits application; it doesn't run as-is on a 64 bits linux install. Regards, Thierry -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Dec. 10, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Unable to run pharo on Ubuntu 12.10

by Goubier Thierry

Le 10/12/2012 14:22, dimitris chloupis a Ã©crit : > I try to double click the Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh , even after going to > properties and enabling allow excuting file as programm does nothing. > And running from terminal prints the following > > exloupis@ephestos:~/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app$ sudo > ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh > ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh: line 26: > /home/exloupis/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app/Contents/Linux/pharo: > Permission denied > ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh: line 26: exec: > /home/exloupis/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app/Contents/Linux/pharo: > cannot execute: Permission denied > > Any idea why ? Have you loaded the ia32-libs package ? Are you on 12.10 64bits ? Pharo is a 32bits application; it doesn't run as-is on a 64 bits linux install. Regards, Thierry -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Dec. 10, 2012

[Pharo-project] Unable to run pharo on Ubuntu 12.10

by dimitris chloupis

I try to double click the Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh , even after going to properties and enabling allow excuting file as programm does nothing. And running from terminal prints the following exloupis@ephestos:~/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app$ sudo ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh: line 26: /home/exloupis/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app/Contents/Linux/pharo: Permission denied ./Pharo-1.4-one-click.sh: line 26: exec: /home/exloupis/Downloads/Pharo-1.4-one-click.app/Contents/Linux/pharo: cannot execute: Permission denied Any idea why ?

Dec. 10, 2012

[Pharo-project] Adding Pharo to Ubuntu Software Center

by dimitris chloupis

So the story is that I finally decided to replace my old relic at work with a new pc i5 quad core with 16 gbs of ram , nice graphic card and a fast SDD disk . So I thought it was time to go back to ubuntu , because my last pc was too slow for it and had several issues. Fortunately ubuntu 12.10 installed along side my win7.Â Took some time, ubuntu could not see my ethernet , had to purchase a usb one just to have access to internet to update ubuntu so i can build the drivers for the onboard one. And now after tons of updates for several things ubuntu is up and running so as it was naturally I went to ubuntu software center to install the software I need. Installed emacs which i use for quick text editing and irc chatting and then my eye fallen on the developer sections, lisp, python, haskell and all the other usual suspects being in the front page with their charming large icons. I did not expect to find smalltalk in front page so i use the search. Found squeak , but pharo was nowhere to be found. So are we interested in exposing pharo to more people , linux users ? If we are I could give a try adding pharo to ubuntu software center. Its not exactly a simple process there are a lot of steps to be taken and obviously it needs a specific process to approve the addition of pharo to ubuntu repositories. I am clueless about the whole process but I am willing to learn and try . If there is alread a pharo ubuntu guru who is willing to try that will excuse my laziness if not I can proceed with trying but I make no promises how long it will take me. I am totally noobish on ubuntu.

Dec. 10, 2012

[Pharo-project] Kind of Spreadsheet component for Seaside?

by Friedrich Dominicus

I'm just wondering does anyone have/know about a kind of spreadsheet component/application for Seaside? Any hints are welcome Friedrich

Dec. 10, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] strange == behavior

by Ben Coman

What downsides would be to doing... Float>>nan ^ NaN copy. Nicolas Cellier wrote: > No, it's just a fast test, because if objects are == they also are = > (except Float nan). > However, if they are ~~ they still can be =. > > If you look at SequenceableCollection>>= otherCollection > "Answer true if the receiver is equivalent to the otherCollection. > First test for identity, then rule out different species and sizes of > collections. As a last resort, examine each element of the receiver > and the otherCollection." > > self == otherCollection ifTrue: [^ true]. > self species == otherCollection species ifFalse: [^ false]. > ^ self hasEqualElements: otherCollection > > We could do the same with Association... > LookupKey>>= aLookupKey > > self == aLookupKey ifTrue: [^ true]. > self species = aLookupKey species > ifTrue: [^key = aLookupKey key] > ifFalse: [^false] > > Note that this has side effect for the sole object I know not equal to itself: > > | a | > a := {Float nan}. > a = a. "is true" > a = {Float nan }. "is false" > > | a | > a := #x -> Float nan. > a = a. "is currently false but would be true after LookupKey change" > a = #x -> Float nan. "false even after LookupKey change, true after > Ciprian fix, but should it?" > > Nicolas > > 2012/12/9 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > >> On Dec 9, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: >> >> >>> Also note that some implementors of = start with verifying == first, some not. >>> I would solve this differently by checking self == anObject in super >>> (LookupKey). >>> >> BTW in that case should not be LookupKey be called IdentityLookupKey >> >>> Nicolas >>> >>> 2012/12/9 Ciprian Teodorov <ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>>> As for the = method in Association (besides perverted side effects) I think >>>> that my code is at least logical. >>>> >>>> If the keys are equal and the values hold absolutely the same object then it >>>> means the two associations are equal. If the values are not (object >>>> identity) equal then, and only then we should compare them with = >>>> >>>> BTW this agrees with the point raised by Markus about comparing only keys >>>> ((1 -> 2) key = (1 -> 4) key). >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Ciprian Teodorov >>>> <ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi guys, >>>>> >>>>> I agree that = can cause these kind of issues... But I found strange that >>>>> == does too. IMHO i was hoping that object identity won't be tricked into >>>>> this kind of loops, especially since it works on first evaluation... >>>>> >>>>> Maybe the solution I have found is shallow (modifying the association =). >>>>> But I think that the issue still holds. Maybe the problem is somewhere in >>>>> the way the workspace implicit variables are handled or stored, if they will >>>>> be stored in an identity dictionary maybe there won't be a problem. I don't >>>>> know. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> some years ago, its been a long discussion on squeak mailing list about >>>>>> that.. >>>>>> imo association should compare keys. not values. >>>>>> >>>>>> But self-referencing data structures is and will be a problem. And >>>>>> there is no easy solution: >>>>>> >>>>>> a := Array new: 1. >>>>>> a at:1 put: a. >>>>>> >>>>>> a = a >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9 December 2012 17:20, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not pro, see my comments in the issue tracker. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For example, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> | a | >>>>>>> a := Association key: #foo. >>>>>>> (a value: (Array with: a)) = (a value: (Array with: a)). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> would still loop. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Loops like that cannot be prevented locally. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> See my other mail about prevent stack overflow. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 09 Dec 2012, at 16:32, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> what is the impact on method =? >>>>>>>> Any ideas? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Stef >>>>>>>> On Dec 8, 2012, at 5:57 PM, Ciprian Teodorov wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It seems that this issue can be fixed by modifying the = method in >>>>>>>>> Association. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Association>>= anAssociation >>>>>>>>> ^ super = anAssociation >>>>>>>>> and: [ >>>>>>>>> value == anAssociation value >>>>>>>>> ifTrue: [ true ] >>>>>>>>> ifFalse: [ value = anAssociation value ] >>>>>>>>> ] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Same behavior in Squeak 4.2 btw >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----------------- >>>>>>>>> Benoit St-Jean >>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean >>>>>>>>> A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. >>>>>>>>> (Albert Einstein) >>>>>>>>> From: Ciprian Teodorov <ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 11:11:44 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] strange == behavior >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> by the way, we have the same thing in 1.0, 1.1, 1.3. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Ciprian Teodorov >>>>>>>>> <ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi guys, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Playing with some recursive data-structure I have found some strange >>>>>>>>> piece of behavior in Pharo. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If in an workspace we try to evaluate: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a := Association new. >>>>>>>>> a key: 3. >>>>>>>>> a value: a. >>>>>>>>> a == a value. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the first time we get "true", the second we get an infinite loop... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A simple workaround is to declare "a": >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> |a| >>>>>>>>> a := Association new. >>>>>>>>> a key: 3. >>>>>>>>> a value: a. >>>>>>>>> a == a value. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My question now is: Is this a bug or a feature ? >>>>>>>>> By the way the same thing happens in 1.4 and 2.0 equally. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> By the way, in Pharo 2.0 doing cmd + . erases the lines selected in >>>>>>>>> the workspace replacing them by "." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV >>>>>>>>> IngÃ©nieur DÃ©veloppement CAO >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 >>>>>>>>> mail : ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com >>>>>>>>> www.teodorov.ro >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV >>>>>>>>> IngÃ©nieur DÃ©veloppement CAO >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 >>>>>>>>> mail : ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com >>>>>>>>> www.teodorov.ro >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV >>>>>>>>> IngÃ©nieur DÃ©veloppement CAO >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 >>>>>>>>> mail : ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com >>>>>>>>> www.teodorov.ro >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Igor Stasenko. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV >>>>> IngÃ©nieur DÃ©veloppement CAO >>>>> >>>>> tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 >>>>> mail : ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com >>>>> www.teodorov.ro >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr. Ciprian TEODOROV >>>> IngÃ©nieur DÃ©veloppement CAO >>>> >>>> tÃ©l : 06 08 54 73 48 >>>> mail : ciprian.teodorov(a)gmail.com >>>> www.teodorov.ro >>>> >> > > >

Dec. 10, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] strange == behavior

by Igor Stasenko

On 9 December 2012 19:34, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Dec 9, 2012, at 7:24 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> some years ago, its been a long discussion on squeak mailing list about that.. >> imo association should compare keys. not values. >> > > But it's not very clear why? Why should > > (1 -> 2) = (1 -> 4) > > be true? They are not the same! > simply for the reason that associations are part of dictionaries. if you need to use associations outside of dicts, why not just using simple arrays? #(1 2) = #( 1 4) or ask yourself, why then we need a distinct class for associations, if its behavior is same as for collection of 2 elements? Lets then just rewrite Dictionary to use array first / array second instead of association key / value. > If you want to compare keys, you can easily write > > (1 -> 2) key = (1 -> 4) key > > and the people reading the code will directly understand what your intention is. > if we follow this, then all comparison methods in system should be implemented to always compare all fields for equality, without exception. Otherwise you risking to confuse people a lot ! :) > Marcus -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Dec. 10, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Helping the noobs help out - i.e. fixing the debugger

by Nicolas Cellier

No, old timers are equally upset by false/wrong visual feedback, especially when they remember this used to work 25 years ago ;) Nicolas 2012/12/9 adrians <nmanole(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > > I'm a Smalltalk newbie and I would like to help fix some simpler issues. For > example, I've recently logged some issues surrounding smart character use. I > set a breakpoint in NECController>>#smartCharacterWithEvent: and proceeded > to debug. > > Now, I understand that for the old-timers stepping through a selector is > straightforward, no matter what help the debugger gives you. For myself, and > likely many other Smalltalk noobs who'd like to help, I need all the help I > can get. One such support is an accurate indication of where the PC is as > you step through a body of code. Currently, in the 2.0 one-click image > (build 20431), things seem quite broken wrt getting accurate visual feedback > of where you are. > > First, as you step over message sends, the highlighted selection is shown in > a totally incorrect spot. Sometimes, just a bit off from where you expect to > be, but sometimes quite a bit off, for example in a block that should not > even be entered. In the selector I mentioned above, the highlighted location > enters the "editor hasSelection ifTrue: []" block when "editor hasSelection" > returns false. > > Second, the PC location highlight is removed when you click somewhere inside > the code. This should never turn off - it's as if you switch the lights off, > for people not familiar with some particular code. I know you can use the > "Where" button to re-establish the highlight, but other than the fact that > you shouldn't have to do this, the highlighted selection is sometimes shown > in the wrong place. > > Third, as you step through code, you would expect that the values of > variables as shown in the bottom right panel of the debugger are accurately > updated as state changes. I've seen cases, relatively frequent, where this > is not so. Current values are shown only after some further advancement > through code. > > There is an old issue tracking debugger selection, > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=709 > <http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=709> , but fixing the > problem seems to have stalled. Additionally, I'm not sure that this > particular issue addresses the third point I made about stale variable > values being shown. > > Could I ask that making the debugger work be made a priority? Of course one > can muddle through some code even with visually broken indicators, but it > should not be so, IMO. The old timers can make the case that there are other > more pressing issues to be addressed, but IMO it makes sense to make the > actual tool used to fix problems as helpful as possible for everyone so that > even non-experts can be productive and lend a helping hand. > > > Cheers, > Adrian > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Helping-the-noobs-help-out-i-e-fixing-the-debugger-tp… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Dec. 9, 2012

[Pharo-project] Helping the noobs help out - i.e. fixing the debugger

by adrians

Hi, I'm a Smalltalk newbie and I would like to help fix some simpler issues. For example, I've recently logged some issues surrounding smart character use. I set a breakpoint in NECController>>#smartCharacterWithEvent: and proceeded to debug. Now, I understand that for the old-timers stepping through a selector is straightforward, no matter what help the debugger gives you. For myself, and likely many other Smalltalk noobs who'd like to help, I need all the help I can get. One such support is an accurate indication of where the PC is as you step through a body of code. Currently, in the 2.0 one-click image (build 20431), things seem quite broken wrt getting accurate visual feedback of where you are. First, as you step over message sends, the highlighted selection is shown in a totally incorrect spot. Sometimes, just a bit off from where you expect to be, but sometimes quite a bit off, for example in a block that should not even be entered. In the selector I mentioned above, the highlighted location enters the "editor hasSelection ifTrue: []" block when "editor hasSelection" returns false. Second, the PC location highlight is removed when you click somewhere inside the code. This should never turn off - it's as if you switch the lights off, for people not familiar with some particular code. I know you can use the "Where" button to re-establish the highlight, but other than the fact that you shouldn't have to do this, the highlighted selection is sometimes shown in the wrong place. Third, as you step through code, you would expect that the values of variables as shown in the bottom right panel of the debugger are accurately updated as state changes. I've seen cases, relatively frequent, where this is not so. Current values are shown only after some further advancement through code. There is an old issue tracking debugger selection, http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=709 <http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=709> , but fixing the problem seems to have stalled. Additionally, I'm not sure that this particular issue addresses the third point I made about stale variable values being shown. Could I ask that making the debugger work be made a priority? Of course one can muddle through some code even with visually broken indicators, but it should not be so, IMO. The old timers can make the case that there are other more pressing issues to be addressed, but IMO it makes sense to make the actual tool used to fix problems as helpful as possible for everyone so that even non-experts can be productive and lend a helping hand. Cheers, Adrian -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Helping-the-noobs-help-out-i-e-fixing-the-debugger-tp… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 9, 2012