December 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Small mini howto on moving a project to SmalltalkHub

by Esteban A. Maringolo

abergel wrote > No no. This can not work Can you please provide the rationale behind that statement? :) DISCLAIMER: Since I'm not actively participating in any alternative, I will happily receive whatever gets done. Regards! -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Feature-requests-and-a-tip-for-SmalltalkHub-tp4659760… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Small mini howto on moving a project to SmalltalkHub

by Alexandre Bergel

Thanks to all of you for your answers. It is clearer to me now Alexandre Le 19 dÃ©c. 2012 Ã 12:31, GÃ¶ran Krampe <goran(a)krampe.se> a Ã©crit : > Hey! > > On 12/19/2012 11:10 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> By the way, is there a way to see what are the projects that are on SmalltalkHub? > > If you read Nicolas answer in this thread before I changed the subject line, then you will see that no, currently one can't, but yes, of course we should and Nicolas is hacking on it :) > >> It is still not clear to me what are the benefits to use SmalltalkHub. > > As I see it: > > - Fully open source. It uses MongoDB at the bottom, not Gemstone. > > - Fast. The architecture with Amber + a RESTful backend + Mongo should make it very responsive and fast. > > - Modern look and feel and githubish features (watchers for example). > >> The problem with squeaksource.com is clearly identified: it is highly unstable. However ss3.gemstone.com looks reasonable. I can browse the project, version of it, see the list of active projects. It seems that SmalltalkHub does not show this? > > I would chalk up anything that is "missing" as simply "still missing". But we should simply add the features we need. > >> Talking about wished feature, it would be nice to see from which countries/cities download and contribution are made... >> >> I really hope to not start a long discussion. This is not my objective :-) > > As a side note - I love OODBs and I love multitransactional super large persistent shared memory (Gemstone) :) but I still think SS3 seems very sluggish in some ways. Yesterday I was searching the projects for "XMLSupport" - it is of course at the far end of the alphabet ;) - and I repeatedly didn't even get an answer... > > So I suspect SS3 is in some ways very naively built (which of course is the beauty of Gemstone in many ways, that one can just build it as if it was all in the image). > > From Smalltalkhub I *expect* excellent speed because IMHO a modern app with such modern tools should simply be very fast. > > regards, GÃ¶ran >

Dec. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Small mini howto on moving a project to SmalltalkHub

by Alexandre Bergel

No no. This can not work Alexandre Le 19 dÃ©c. 2012 Ã 21:03, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > Why not ~ducasse/Pharo? (~user/project) > > It promotes a culture of projects forking and pull requests to integrate > changes back. Isn't that a way to avoid the stagnation of projects? > > Regards! > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Feature-requests-and-a-tip-for-SmalltalkHub-tp4659760… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Dec. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Small mini howto on moving a project to SmalltalkHub

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Why not ~ducasse/Pharo? (~user/project) It promotes a culture of projects forking and pull requests to integrate changes back. Isn't that a way to avoid the stagnation of projects? Regards! -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Feature-requests-and-a-tip-for-SmalltalkHub-tp4659760… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Configuration Browser tab naming

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

+ 1 > I think the naming is more related to historic > development: my original implementation just had one tab > named "Configurations". > > Esteban later added "Untrusted" since these are the ones > that are not (yet) tested in the according Pharo version. > It's a nice addition since it makes them easily accessible > as well. > > However I now changed the tab names to "Core" and "Community" > in > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7154 > > > Reminder: > ========= > It is still required that people try out the "Community" > ones and if they are working fine in Pharo 2.0 copy them to > > http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/MetaRepoForPharo20 > > so they appear in "Core" > > There is lots of nice stuff out there (distributed in various > repositories, posts, ...) and it only makes sense if people > know about it from a central place and have easy "loading" > access to it right from the image... > > Thx > T. > >

Dec. 19, 2012

[Pharo-project] Configuration Browser tab naming

by Torsten Bergmann

I think the naming is more related to historic development: my original implementation just had one tab named "Configurations". Esteban later added "Untrusted" since these are the ones that are not (yet) tested in the according Pharo version. It's a nice addition since it makes them easily accessible as well. However I now changed the tab names to "Core" and "Community" in http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7154 Reminder: ========= It is still required that people try out the "Community" ones and if they are working fine in Pharo 2.0 copy them to http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/MetaRepoForPharo20 so they appear in "Core" There is lots of nice stuff out there (distributed in various repositories, posts, ...) and it only makes sense if people know about it from a central place and have easy "loading" access to it right from the image... Thx T.

Dec. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Small mini howto on moving a project to SmalltalkHub

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Dec 19, 2012, at 4:54 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: > GÃ¶ran, > > Regarding sluggish ss3 searches ... you are absolutely right that not a lot of work has gone into optimizing ss3 for GemStone ... you will note that ss3 is still ALPHA ... ss3 was put into production as alpha over a year ago because smalltalkhub wasn't ready for prime time ... the original intent was not to use the alpha code for production, but something needed to be done to start taking the load off of SqueakSource.com. > > I'm hoping that one of two things happens in the next year: > > a) I find enough time to upgrade ss3 to Tobias' latest code base and > address some of the performance issues > > or > > b) smalltalkhub gets to the point where it replaces ss3 â¦ In fact a part of the requirements changed. - we do not like ducasse/Moose or ducasse/Pharo when this is a project - we wanted to support private projects so that people could really make business Now nicolas planned a release with all these features for 15 January. We have finalized the server setup with the inria engineers so we will have a stable version. Nicolas should also prepare a setup to show the Cog bug that he encountered and that igor and esteban tried to understand. > > Right now, a lot of my effort is being put into making it possible for Smalltalkers to use the original github and git for their projects as their are quite a few advantages to using git that go beyond the social coding bits of github... > > Dale > > ----- Original Message ----- > | From: "GÃ¶ran Krampe" <goran(a)krampe.se> > | To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 3:31:15 AM > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Small mini howto on moving a project to SmalltalkHub > | > | Hey! > | > | On 12/19/2012 11:10 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > | > By the way, is there a way to see what are the projects that are on > | > SmalltalkHub? > | > | If you read Nicolas answer in this thread before I changed the > | subject > | line, then you will see that no, currently one can't, but yes, of > | course > | we should and Nicolas is hacking on it :) > | > | > It is still not clear to me what are the benefits to use > | > SmalltalkHub. > | > | As I see it: > | > | - Fully open source. It uses MongoDB at the bottom, not Gemstone. > | > | - Fast. The architecture with Amber + a RESTful backend + Mongo > | should > | make it very responsive and fast. > | > | - Modern look and feel and githubish features (watchers for example). > | > | > The problem with squeaksource.com is clearly identified: it is > | > highly unstable. However ss3.gemstone.com looks reasonable. I can > | > browse the project, version of it, see the list of active > | > projects. It seems that SmalltalkHub does not show this? > | > | I would chalk up anything that is "missing" as simply "still > | missing". > | But we should simply add the features we need. > | > | > Talking about wished feature, it would be nice to see from which > | > countries/cities download and contribution are made... > | > > | > I really hope to not start a long discussion. This is not my > | > objective :-) > | > | As a side note - I love OODBs and I love multitransactional super > | large > | persistent shared memory (Gemstone) :) but I still think SS3 seems > | very > | sluggish in some ways. Yesterday I was searching the projects for > | "XMLSupport" - it is of course at the far end of the alphabet ;) - > | and I > | repeatedly didn't even get an answer... > | > | So I suspect SS3 is in some ways very naively built (which of course > | is > | the beauty of Gemstone in many ways, that one can just build it as if > | it > | was all in the image). > | > | From Smalltalkhub I *expect* excellent speed because IMHO a modern > | app > | with such modern tools should simply be very fast. > | > | regards, GÃ¶ran > | > | >

Dec. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Small mini howto on moving a project to SmalltalkHub

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Dec 19, 2012, at 2:12 PM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > GÃ¶ran wrote: >> <snip>lots of nice stuff about SmalltalkHub</snip> > > I agree with all you wrote and hope to put > not too much pressure on Nicolas ... but: > > 1. at a bare minimum it needs a way to see what > projects are hosted as we have seen from the > discussion in this thread > > 2. It's open source - but still there is no > - descriptions of what is required to set it up locally > - load script or a ConfigurationOfSmalltalkHub so one can > load the required packages + 1 this is strange that there is no configuration. I will ask nicolas to not forget that point. > > Especially the last point may be a step to be able for > the community to help and contribute and put it > on more shoulders. This would lead to better acceptance. > > Currently it is very dependent on one persons schedule > as I already wrote in November: > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2012-November/071497.h… > > and as we see the wishlist is growing... > > Thx > T. > > >

Dec. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Configuration Browser tab naming

by Marcus Denker

On Dec 19, 2012, at 5:27 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: > Some suggestions for naming the tabs in Configuration Browser... > > Perhaps "Untrusted" can be renamed "Community": > * "Untrusted" leaves a bad taste in my mouth and is not good PR. > * "Untrusted" a fairly harsh judgment of a lot of good projects. There are certainly projects in there from people I would trust. > * Linking to "Untrusted" from within the standard image degrades trust in the whole Pharo experience. > * The term "Community" encompasses the essential "not vetted by Inria Pharo Team" warning > Yes, good idea. > I feel also the tab named "Configurations" does not convey the sense that "these configurations are vetted and supported by the Inria Pharo Team". > It often leaves me with the ironic thought "if one tab is Configurations then what is the other tab? Not Configurations?" > Perhaps this one can be renamed "Core" or "Pharo Team" or "Inria" > > cheers -ben >

Dec. 19, 2012

[Pharo-project] Configuration Browser tab naming

by Ben Coman

Some suggestions for naming the tabs in Configuration Browser... Perhaps "Untrusted" can be renamed "Community": * "Untrusted" leaves a bad taste in my mouth and is not good PR. * "Untrusted" a fairly harsh judgment of a lot of good projects. There are certainly projects in there from people I would trust. * Linking to "Untrusted" from within the standard image degrades trust in the whole Pharo experience. * The term "Community" encompasses the essential "not vetted by Inria Pharo Team" warning I feel also the tab named "Configurations" does not convey the sense that "these configurations are vetted and supported by the Inria Pharo Team". It often leaves me with the ironic thought "if one tab is Configurations then what is the other tab? Not Configurations?" Perhaps this one can be renamed "Core" or "Pharo Team" or "Inria" cheers -ben

Dec. 19, 2012