November 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [NativeBoost] pass an array of args to external function

by Igor Stasenko

Just to make it clear (to everyone): if you first asking me how to call a function which takes array of pointers, the question won't left without answer. but if your next question after my answer is "what is array of pointers" ... sorry , but you can keep me as arrogant nerd, but i won't answer it. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Nov. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Fixing the StackInterpreterSimulator for Pharo 1.4

by Igor Stasenko

On 9 November 2012 07:01, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > he means in which tracker does he put the issue, so it can be integrated, I > suppose. > > if is that, is in cog tracker: http://code.google.com/p/cog/issues/list > yes, i think this is best one > Esteban > > > On Nov 9, 2012, at 10:50 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 8 November 2012 14:16, Stefan Marr <smalltalk(a)stefan-marr.de> wrote: > > Hi: > > On 06 Nov 2012, at 17:59, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > The attached change set fixes bit rot in the StackInterpreterSimulator and > related classes. > > Here a brief summary: > > - VMClass>>#doOrDefer: now uses ProcessBrowser>>#isUIProcess: instead of > Project > - it replaces the use of #asDisplayText with StringMorph>>#contents:. > - use of ThreadStream>>#on: is replaced with ThreadSafeTranscript>>#new > - Utilities is replaced by UIManager>>#default > - and #primitiveGetAttribute now uses the non-depricated `Smalltalk vm > getSystemAttribute: attr` > > > Here are more complete patch. > > > > Into which tracker should that go? > CogVM or Pharo? > > the build job? > > https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Cog/job/Cog%20Git%20Tracker/ > > > > Best regards > Stefan > > > -- > Stefan Marr > Software Languages Lab > Vrije Universiteit Brussel > Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium > http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr > Phone: +32 2 629 2974 > Fax: +32 2 629 3525 > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Nov. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [NativeBoost] pass an array of args to external function

by Igor Stasenko

On 8 November 2012 06:52, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 2012-11-08, at 04:39, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> sure sure.. >> but guys... i really doubt that i would want to see people poking with >> NB who don't even have a >> basic understanding of malloc(ed) memory management and working with >> memory buffers & pointers. >> For such sort of people, best what i can offer is "go back when you >> will learn basics first". > > that reads for me: everybody but me should use it. oh please... so, the fact that i don't want to explain to you how to use keyboard, or how to send mails, means that only me should use it? But again, if you asking me to teach you how to write emails, but also you cannot type nor even write, should i spend my time teaching you how to write first, and then type, and then use computer, and then finally write emails? I can gladly help with things which really worth helping with. And trust me, memory allocation and pointer operations is what you must know before approaching nativeboost for using it for external libs. I thought that it is obvious to everyone. > > And you can be pretty sure that most pharoers (including myself) have > a pretty vague notion about malloc/free, combined with the internals > of an third party C library, that makes a pretty unstable field. > > Again, no silver bullets here, but less arrogance and more examples! > > >> Of course, it would be cool if NB could work even for "dummies", but i >> am thinking , as any technology, >> before you start using it without shooting yourself into foot, you >> should do some homework first. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Nov. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [NativeBoost] pass an array of args to external function

by Max Leske

On 09.11.2012, at 11:13, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 8 November 2012 17:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> On 08 Nov 2012, at 20:29, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> I told you several time, do you think that a guy do not understand what is a pointer because he does not know how to write it >>> in C? >>> Give a chance to professionals to learn. We are not talking about explaining what is a pointer, but explaining the >>> potential problems and challenges >>> >>> With your reasoning, I should stop programming because there are so many things that I did not learn in school >>> and I would not have no chance to learn from this community. So with that reasoning I should better stop working in Smalltalk >>> and look for another language! >> >> I think he meant it as a general warning ;-) >> >> The things is, as long as its pure Smalltalk, you are protected by a very good dynamic type system that cannot really be broken, i.e. the object illusion is kept (bounds checking, blah blah â¦) >> >> But once you start using C pointers, you can very easily do something wrong. It might be a very subtle error and it might not manifest itself immediately, alas there won't be a Debugger popping up, just a coredump. >> >> Pharo is actually pretty/very stable in day to day use, it should stay that way. >> > > yes, that what i meant. and without some practice in C, you are really > lacking understanding that > pointers is actually a mine field: one day you can walk safely, > another day be blown up at first step. > > and referencing "for dummies" was a popular books series like "windows > for dummies" , etc, > but not in a sense to show arrogance and disrespect to Max. Sorry Max, > if that offended you. Thanks Igor, apology accepted. > > So, what i meant to say, there is certainty will be no such book like > "NativeBoost for dummies". > You cannot enter this field without having certain background or preparation. Agreed. I think we can close this topic now :) Cheers, Max > > > >> Sven >> >> -- >> Sven Van Caekenberghe >> http://stfx.eu >> Smalltalk is the Red Pill >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Nov. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] CI out of space again?

by Marcus Denker

On Nov 9, 2012, at 5:18 AM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > we got this error in the scripts download job: > > ERROR: Problem fetching from origin / origin - could be unavailable. > Continuing anyway > hudson.plugins.git.GitException: Command "git fetch -t > git://gitorious.org/pharo-build/pharo-build.git > +refs/heads/*:refs/remotes/origin/*" returned status code 255: > stdout: > stderr: error: cannot open .git/FETCH_HEAD: Read-only file system > > It seems that the Jenkins is out of space agin. Read-only filesystem more likely says the the virtualized machines are in a bad state... the linux slave says: 32bit: /dev/xvdb1 20635700 14634212 4953252 75% /builds 64: /dev/xvdb1 16192392 10115608 5254260 66% /builds I will ask support. And we should just start to use the new infrastructure. I can't get worse.... Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Nov. 9, 2012

[Pharo-project] Call for Participation in the Smalltalk Devroom at FOSDEM 2013

by Stephan Eggermont

Call for Participation in the Smalltalk Devroom at FOSDEM 2013. http://www.fosdem.org " A devroom for the Pharo, Squeak, Amber, GST, EtoilÃ©, Seaside, Moose Smalltalk projects & Newspeak as derived language. Smalltalk environments offer a very high development productivity, unmatched by their successors. Come do some pair programming with us and experience yourself the advantages of a real OO environment" The meetup will take place Sunday, February 3, 2013, from 9AM until 5PM, building AW. This room has 72 seats, a VGA video projector and wireless internet. More information will be available later. Proposals on content and format are welcome. People interested in running a session should announce that on the smalltalk-devroom mailing list, with the following information: - Their name - The project they are associated with - A short bio, to be put on the website along with their speaker name - (optionally) a picture of themselves - The title of their session (which will go on the website and in the booklet) - A abstract describing the session in further detail. - The desired length of the session. - The desired time slot in which they want to hold the session. Suggested values for the duration are 55min, 25min, 6m40 (Pecha Kucha). The desired time slot is meant to help you prevent conflicts with other dev rooms in which you might have a talk or your travel arrangements. There are alternative, non smalltalk-specific tracks available: lightning talk and the main track The deadline for submissions is December 31, 23:00 GMT+1. Discussion takes place on the smalltalk-devroom(a)lists.fosdem.org mailing list. Please subscribe if you are interested: https://lists.fosdem.org/listinfo/smalltalk-devroom The local VUB/ULB Smalltalkers have been asked to organize a sprint/BSUG meeting/Camp Smalltalk on Saturday February 2. Devroom related URLs: http://www.pharo-project.org http://www.squeak.org/ http://etoileos.com/ http://www.seaside.st/ http://smalltalk.gnu.org/ http://www.moosetechnology.org http://amber-lang.net http://newspeaklanguage.org/ http://www.esug.org

Nov. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Don't ever ever halt in #startUp:

by Marcus Denker

On Nov 8, 2012, at 10:12 PM, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > I'm currently trying Sven idea: > > 1. use a fresh pharo image (same base version your screwed one's changes is) > 2. rename (a copy of) the changes file as .cs > 3. open file browser and try to file in that .cs > > The first try didn't work because some compilation error. > > I've removed the offending code editing manually and trying again > > It's slow because is a lot of code > > lets see how it ends. > I don't think that this can work... What sven meant is to drag the .changes on your new image, it will open a special tool to browse the changes. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Nov. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [NativeBoost] pass an array of args to external function

by Igor Stasenko

On 8 November 2012 17:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 08 Nov 2012, at 20:29, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> I told you several time, do you think that a guy do not understand what is a pointer because he does not know how to write it >> in C? >> Give a chance to professionals to learn. We are not talking about explaining what is a pointer, but explaining the >> potential problems and challenges >> >> With your reasoning, I should stop programming because there are so many things that I did not learn in school >> and I would not have no chance to learn from this community. So with that reasoning I should better stop working in Smalltalk >> and look for another language! > > I think he meant it as a general warning ;-) > > The things is, as long as its pure Smalltalk, you are protected by a very good dynamic type system that cannot really be broken, i.e. the object illusion is kept (bounds checking, blah blah â¦) > > But once you start using C pointers, you can very easily do something wrong. It might be a very subtle error and it might not manifest itself immediately, alas there won't be a Debugger popping up, just a coredump. > > Pharo is actually pretty/very stable in day to day use, it should stay that way. > yes, that what i meant. and without some practice in C, you are really lacking understanding that pointers is actually a mine field: one day you can walk safely, another day be blown up at first step. and referencing "for dummies" was a popular books series like "windows for dummies" , etc, but not in a sense to show arrogance and disrespect to Max. Sorry Max, if that offended you. So, what i meant to say, there is certainty will be no such book like "NativeBoost for dummies". You cannot enter this field without having certain background or preparation. > Sven > > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > http://stfx.eu > Smalltalk is the Red Pill > > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Nov. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [NativeBoost] pass an array of args to external function

by Igor Stasenko

On 8 November 2012 05:42, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I get your point Igor but then again, we're all somewhat self taught which means that as a developer if you don't understand something you hack around until you get it. It's not like I'm going to break anything in the released products, right? And I think I can judge the risk of wrecking my own machine. > > I think that helping each other out on this list is more important than scowling at the noobs and yelling "DON'T TOUCH". nonono.. touch. everything everywhere. i didn't meant to not touch. what i meant that i am not very good at teaching, especially when it is about basics. for me, to explain such things, is like explaining "how to breathe".. and then, as it happens often, i assuming that people know as much as i do :) > > Sorry if that comes across harsh but I'm honestly a little upset. > > Max > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Nov. 9, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Fixing the StackInterpreterSimulator for Pharo 1.4

by Esteban Lorenzano

he means in which tracker does he put the issue, so it can be integrated, I suppose. if is that, is in cog tracker: http://code.google.com/p/cog/issues/list Esteban On Nov 9, 2012, at 10:50 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 8 November 2012 14:16, Stefan Marr <smalltalk(a)stefan-marr.de> wrote: >> Hi: >> >> On 06 Nov 2012, at 17:59, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>>> The attached change set fixes bit rot in the StackInterpreterSimulator and related classes. >>>> >>>> Here a brief summary: >>>> >>>> - VMClass>>#doOrDefer: now uses ProcessBrowser>>#isUIProcess: instead of Project >>>> - it replaces the use of #asDisplayText with StringMorph>>#contents:. >>>> - use of ThreadStream>>#on: is replaced with ThreadSafeTranscript>>#new >>>> - Utilities is replaced by UIManager>>#default >>>> - and #primitiveGetAttribute now uses the non-depricated `Smalltalk vm getSystemAttribute: attr` >> >> Here are more complete patch. >> >> >> >> Into which tracker should that go? >> CogVM or Pharo? >> > the build job? > > https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Cog/job/Cog%20Git%20Tracker/ > > > >> Best regards >> Stefan >> >> >> -- >> Stefan Marr >> Software Languages Lab >> Vrije Universiteit Brussel >> Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium >> http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr >> Phone: +32 2 629 2974 >> Fax: +32 2 629 3525 >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Nov. 9, 2012