November 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] TimeProfiler and primitives

by Marcus Denker

On Nov 11, 2012, at 3:21 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Nov 11, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Yanni Chiu wrote: > >> On 11/11/12 11:31 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>> So this can only work if you do not respect GPL. For example, I could imagine that >>> somebody take qwak code and build a company around it but does not say anything >>> and never ever publish code then they would not be forced to release the code they develop >>> subsequently under GPL (because it has to be GPL) but they would be violating the license. >> >> IIUC, whether or not they'd be violating GPL depends on what you mean by "build a company around it". >> >> It is entirely okay with GPL, for a company to use (modify & extend) GPL code internally, and never publishes any changes. However, if that company wanted to release a product, using GPL code, then they would be obligated to release their code changes as well. And, that release of code must use GPL. > > I was implying that indeed people do a product based on it. > The viral aspect of the GPL are bound to distribution. A web service thus can use modified GPL sofware and never has to provide the sources. Only ff you distribute the binary (or source), you have to provide the sources under the terms of the GPL. When mixing licenses, the parts under GPL have to stay GPL and the others (e.g. MIT) stay MIT. But the GPL's virality leaks into the MIT parts in some way: It forces all the source to be made available when you distribute a modified version, the GPLed parts and even those under MIT. >> What's not clear to me is how this translates into the "cloud"-era. If someone provides qwaq as a cloud service, are they just using GPL code internally? >> >>> So simply thinking that Qwak code does not exist is the best for Pharo. >> >> Yes, good idea. However, I believe it is allowed that someone may describe how a piece of GPL'ed code works, so it can be re-implemented by others. > > I do not know that part of GPL. > The GPL as a license is a about copyright. Copyright is for expressions of text (or other media), not for the ideas behind. Of course, one of the reasons why one picks a simple license is to not have exactly these discussions. They are useless, destroy energy and bring nothing. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Nov. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] TimeProfiler and primitives

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Nov 11, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Yanni Chiu wrote: > On 11/11/12 11:31 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> So this can only work if you do not respect GPL. For example, I could imagine that >> somebody take qwak code and build a company around it but does not say anything >> and never ever publish code then they would not be forced to release the code they develop >> subsequently under GPL (because it has to be GPL) but they would be violating the license. > > IIUC, whether or not they'd be violating GPL depends on what you mean by "build a company around it". > > It is entirely okay with GPL, for a company to use (modify & extend) GPL code internally, and never publishes any changes. However, if that company wanted to release a product, using GPL code, then they would be obligated to release their code changes as well. And, that release of code must use GPL. I was implying that indeed people do a product based on it. > What's not clear to me is how this translates into the "cloud"-era. If someone provides qwaq as a cloud service, are they just using GPL code internally? > >> So simply thinking that Qwak code does not exist is the best for Pharo. > > Yes, good idea. However, I believe it is allowed that someone may describe how a piece of GPL'ed code works, so it can be re-implemented by others. I do not know that part of GPL. Stef

Nov. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] TimeProfiler and primitives

by Yanni Chiu

On 11/11/12 11:31 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > So this can only work if you do not respect GPL. For example, I could imagine that > somebody take qwak code and build a company around it but does not say anything > and never ever publish code then they would not be forced to release the code they develop > subsequently under GPL (because it has to be GPL) but they would be violating the license. IIUC, whether or not they'd be violating GPL depends on what you mean by "build a company around it". It is entirely okay with GPL, for a company to use (modify & extend) GPL code internally, and never publishes any changes. However, if that company wanted to release a product, using GPL code, then they would be obligated to release their code changes as well. And, that release of code must use GPL. What's not clear to me is how this translates into the "cloud"-era. If someone provides qwaq as a cloud service, are they just using GPL code internally? > So simply thinking that Qwak code does not exist is the best for Pharo. Yes, good idea. However, I believe it is allowed that someone may describe how a piece of GPL'ed code works, so it can be re-implemented by others.

Nov. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] NB Capabilities

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Nov 10, 2012, at 11:34 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: > I am considering C++. I know that it is the favorite among quants. I also know it would open up a world of libraries and code. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_analyst > > When you say make a VM plugin are talking about not using NB? yes have a look at the chapter of the newBlueBook on my web site. It explains how to write a plugin (starting with an example returning 7) that you can then call from Pharo. http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks/CollectiveNBlueBook/greenberg.pdf One day we should revisit it. > I am not quite sure what you are talking about doing. I would like to understand better. > Regarding the wrapper, is that a wrapper around the DLL? > Any education on how to do what you are talking about would be greatly appreciated. Enough to get me going in the right direction with links or something. > > I have not read the documentation regarding writing a C++ app yet, as I do not know C++. > > I'll have to see what I need to do to learn C++. :) > > I agree that this would be the most efficient way with regards to the application. If it is within reason educationally close in time spent to Clojure time educationally, I would definitely consider this direction. I realize anything like this is just a guess and estimate as to my ability to learn either Clojure or C++. > > Thanks for the encouragement and education. > > Jimmie > > On 11/10/2012 4:12 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> Hi, Jimmie >> i took a brief look at the library and interfaces it provides. >> To my opinion, if i would need to use it, i'd rather make a VM plugin for it. >> First, since its C++, and you need to write wrapper, making wrapper as >> a VM plugin >> is better than just another C library which you need to link via FFI. >> >> Connecting to java: yes its possible, but then it means that you will >> have a java runtime >> in your process, which is much heavyweight.. >> Just want to say, that if efficiency is issue, i would go for VM plugin. >> >> But since you are not me, the price of learning C++/Java may be too >> high, and i understand why >> you looking for alternatives. But in your place i would advise you to >> learn C++ basics. It will open a door >> to other languages of C family (because of similar syntax & rules). >> You may/will need it one day anyways :) >> >> On 10 November 2012 18:42, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 11/10/2012 11:03 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >>>> It is too much imo.. >>>> Clojure->java -> c++ >>>> >>>> i would just write C++ code >>> >>> The API is either Java or C++ or .NET. >>> I agree that no sane person would go Clojure->Java->C++ :) >>> >>> Clojure would provide the option of interfacing natively the Java API, >>> without having to write Java. But then I am left developing in Clojure, >>> unless I decide to serve to Pharo via http/websockets. >>> >>> As I do not currently know Java or Clojure or C++, it currently seemed like >>> learning Clojure as the optimal path of least resistance. >>> >>> That is with a belief that I could learn Clojure better, easier, faster than >>> C++, or at least a sufficient subset of C++ to work with NB. >>> >>> If I could learn a subset of C++ sufficient to interface NB/Pharo with >>> ForexConnect, then I would be happy to do so. >>> http://forexforums.dailyfx.com/forexconnect/392705-forexconnect-api-subscri… >>> Especially if I had a roadmap to help provide me with said proficiency and >>> that I could do so in equal or less time than spending with Clojure. >>> It is a pragmatic decision. Long term I want to spend my time in Pharo and >>> not in Clojure or C++, which is why I am attempting what at the moment >>> requires the least effort or at least by best guess appears to be so. >>> >>> I have found nothing that I can program and interactively explore and >>> experiment with better that Smalltalk/Pharo. It is most definitely my >>> preference to do so. And I so greatly appreciate all of the efforts being >>> made to make it an option more of the time. >>> >>> JavaConnect that StÃ©phane mentioned looks very interesting. >>> >>> I really appreciate your input into this. I can gauge the effort to learn >>> Clojure and I find it reasonable. C++ seems from the outside to be more >>> daunting. I could be wrong. Let me know if you have a different opinion. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Jimmie >>> >> >> > >

Nov. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] TimeProfiler and primitives

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>>> >>> That was what I was looking for!!! >>> Indeed, much better results :) Thanks Paul. >>> Now I wonder, can we merge the changes from this SystemProfiler into the standard TimeProfiler? >>> I would love to have only (correcy) onw. >>> Maybe you can help with this task? ;) >>> >> >> Make sure to check the license first.. everything Qwaq is GPL, which is quite a strange >> license in the context of Smalltalk... >> > means copy-pasting the code will make you illegal. far worse than that: all the code that is loaded and is in the same image will be GPL. So this can only work if you do not respect GPL. For example, I could imagine that somebody take qwak code and build a company around it but does not say anything and never ever publish code then they would not be forced to release the code they develop subsequently under GPL (because it has to be GPL) but they would be violating the license. So simply thinking that Qwak code does not exist is the best for Pharo. Because Pharo does not want to be a private closed project violating GPL license. We respect it too much for doing that. Stef

Nov. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost Win32 Examples

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Excellent!!!!!!!! we need more examples :) On Nov 10, 2012, at 10:20 PM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > Hi Igor, > > thanks for adding me to the NativeBoost repo. I uploaded some > basic samples for Win32 and adopted the config. > > In Pharo 2.0 one can load latest stable right from the world menu > "Tools" -> ConfigurationBrowser" -> "NativeBoost" > > > Here are some samples people can now play with: > > 1. Set the pharo window title > > NBWin32Window getFocus setWindowText: 'Set Pharo window title' > > 2. Access environment variables: > > NBWin32Shell getComputerName > NBWin32Shell getUserName > NBWin32Shell getWindowsDirectory > NBWin32Shell getNumberOfProcessors > ... > > 3. Access to control panel applets > > NBWin32Shell showODBCSettings > NBWin32Shell showControlPanel > ... > > 4. Open web pages, files, documents, ... > > NBWin32Shell shellBrowse: 'http://www.pharo-project.org' > NBWin32Shell shellExplore: 'c:\' > NBWin32Shell shellOpen: 'c:\pharo.pdf' > ... > > 5. Lock workstation > > NBWin32Shell lockWorkstation > > 6. Sends a string to the debugger for display: > > NBWin32Shell outputDebugString: 'Trace me' > > These outputs can be viewed with dbmon.exe from Microsoft > or DebugView > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896647.aspx > > Have fun! > > Bye > Torsten >

Nov. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Pharo Online Help 1.0

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Nov 10, 2012, at 9:41 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > On 10 Nov 2012, at 21:33, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >>> 3. Lets discuss how we want to describe the content "in-image" >>> for "serving on the web". Maybe with a "Markup to HTML translator" >>> - or a "WikiStyle to HTML" like help >> >> I want to use the pier syntax because I know that I can generate the correct latex >> with it for the books, and of course any kind of html and other formats. > > I vote for Markdown, it is more like a defacto standard. I prefer pier since I can convert all the book macros (and I cannot do that in markdown). I'm spending so much time writing that at least I want the result to look more than a bad documentation. > And you can convert Markdown into anything, there exit tons of tools for it. > > Remember that I sent you my Zinc & Zodiac docs converted to Latex ? Were they no good ? It depends at which level. Can you tag on word in markdown to have bold, italic, index? If I would not have written 350 pages of seaside book with pier it would be a different story but so far pier syntax is good for doing everything: html, latex, even markdown. > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > http://stfx.eu > Smalltalk is the Red Pill > > > >

Nov. 11, 2012

[Pharo-project] [update 2.0] #20389

by Marcus Denker

20388 ----- Issue 6895: Network-MIME extension methods http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6895 -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Nov. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Opening a serial Port with Pharo on Linux

by Friedrich Dominicus

Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> writes: > 2012/11/11 Friedrich Dominicus <frido(a)q-software-solutions.de> > > Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > > > Did you tried: > > > > sPort := SerialPort new. > > sPort close. > > sPort openPort: '/dev/ttyS0'. > No, but now I did and with a symbolic link > from /dev/ttyUSB0 to /dev/ttyS0 Â I get this thing opened? > > > I do not understand why you need a symlink.Â Well in the end I want to open /dev/ttyUSB0 and this is what I've done: ls -l ttyS* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Nov 8 15:11 ttyS0 -> ttyUSB0 So there is a symbolic link from /dev/ttyUSB0 to /dev/ttyS0 Now if I'm trying: sPort := SerialPort new. sPort close. sPort openPort: '/dev/ttyUSB0'. I get: 11 November 2012 4:26:26.774 pm VM: unix - i686 - linux-gnu - CoInterpreter VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.166 uuid: 5773fcb9-2982-4507-8a9e-4308ec33731e Nov 6 2012, StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.166 uuid: 5773fcb9-2982-4507-8a9e-4308ec33731e Nov 6 2012, https://git.gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: a7bf128cd3b9389e77ea0cdec9a515282926a483 Date: 2012-11-02 14:17:44 +0100 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #136 Image: Pharo1.4 [Latest update: #14457] SerialPort(Object)>>error: Receiver: SerialPort(closed, 9600 baud, 8 bits, 1 stopbits, no parity) Arguments and temporary variables: aString: 'Cannot open ''/dev/ttyUSB0''' Receiver's instance variables: port: nil baudRate: 9600 stopBitsType: 1 parityType: 0 dataBits: 8 outputFlowControlType: 0 inputFlowControlType: 0 xOnByte: 19 xOffByte: 24 SerialPort>>openPort: Receiver: SerialPort(closed, 9600 baud, 8 bits, 1 stopbits, no parity) Arguments and temporary variables: portId: '/dev/ttyUSB0' result: nil Receiver's instance variables: port: nil baudRate: 9600 stopBitsType: 1 parityType: 0 dataBits: 8 outputFlowControlType: 0 inputFlowControlType: 0 xOnByte: 19 xOffByte: 24 If I'm doing: SerialPort(#'/dev/ttyS0', 9600 baud, 8 bits, 1 stopbits, no parity) So the port is properly opened. Don't ask me why I'm not understanding it. Regards Friedrich

Nov. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] NB Capabilities

by dimitris chloupis

>> I think going the Clojure route makes more sense, but I am strongly >> biased towards functional programming languages. It is a simpler >> language to learn than Java, yet one that provides much richer >> libraries. You won't, for instance, have to write a for loop to >> iterate over a collection. Just read "reduce" and think "inject: >> into:" and you're halfway there. I am going to disagree there with you. Especially if one comes from the family of C like language , he is going to find Clojure an alien planet at best. Now count into that as a non popular language the amount of books/tutorials/articles on it will be highly limited. Me learning Clojure has been far from smooth and easy and definetly not even remotely close as easy as learning Java and of course light year away as easy as learning python. Also I had the advantage of already studying briefly common lisp still I found learning Clojure much more challenging than I expected mainly because even though it pays tribute on its lisp heritage its a language by itself. I do agree though that is a very promising language for JVM and its certainly a must learn if you target the Java Machine , so recommending clojure is by no means a bad advice. However if one come to either lisp or smalltalk , he must be prepared for severing lacking not so well written and noob friendly documentation and mostly a complete lack of choices in that field. Saying that I like Clojure ,Â I love common lisp and I adore smalltalk .Â I agree with you that functional programming at least in theory seems extremely tempting way to code.

Nov. 11, 2012