October 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] rmod is down -> fuel for squeak?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Mariano. > > I can confirm that it works out of the box in Squeak 4.3. > > :) > I have a 3.9 image thoughâ¦ :) > > I'll let you know if I get it running on there > Let me know if I can help. If you make it work, we can do a compatibility package and put it in ConfigurationOfFUel so that it loads automatically in Squeak 3.9. > (might be simpler to use a newer image though). > > Well, it looks this is for seasidehosting? in either case, why not updating to Pharo? because of the custom network primitives you have? > > On 01.10.2012, at 22:51, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:44 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I wanted some info on Fuel but the rmod page is downâ¦ >> >> Anyways, I read that Mariano got Fuel running on Squeak. Is there an >> official version for Squeak? >> >> > Hi Max. It should just work. The ConfigurationOfFuel should automatically > load the needed compatibility packages. > I tried in 4.3 and 4.1 (if I remember correctly). > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Oct. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] rmod is down -> fuel for squeak?

by Max Leske

Thanks Mariano. I can confirm that it works out of the box in Squeak 4.3. I have a 3.9 image thoughâ¦ :) I'll let you know if I get it running on there (might be simpler to use a newer image though). On 01.10.2012, at 22:51, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:44 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I wanted some info on Fuel but the rmod page is downâ¦ > > Anyways, I read that Mariano got Fuel running on Squeak. Is there an official version for Squeak? > > > Hi Max. It should just work. The ConfigurationOfFuel should automatically load the needed compatibility packages. > I tried in 4.3 and 4.1 (if I remember correctly). > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Oct. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] rmod is down -> fuel for squeak?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:44 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I wanted some info on Fuel but the rmod page is downâ¦ > > Anyways, I read that Mariano got Fuel running on Squeak. Is there an > official version for Squeak? > > Hi Max. It should just work. The ConfigurationOfFuel should automatically load the needed compatibility packages. I tried in 4.3 and 4.1 (if I remember correctly). -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Oct. 1, 2012

[Pharo-project] rmod is down -> fuel for squeak?

by Max Leske

I wanted some info on Fuel but the rmod page is downâ¦ Anyways, I read that Mariano got Fuel running on Squeak. Is there an official version for Squeak? Cheers, Max

Oct. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello bleedingEdge question

by Alexandre Bergel

> I was thinking in terms of Slime for Seaside. > One PhD student is working on rule and I was thinking that it would be fun to have a kind of > Metacello checker. > do you have some rule of thumb where to look for potential problems? > Because it can be a fun experience. I had this idea of a checker for Metacello (that can be used with Versionner before committing), but never got the traction to do it. Some rules: - two packages in a graph of dependencies may rely on a different version of a third package - identifying cycles in packages - very important: checking whether the dependencies defined in Metacello matches with the actual source code. Said in other words, do I miss some dependencies in a configuration? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Oct. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Another sad day] a nice example of the mess with json in FileTree

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I like the project, but I second the concerns of Stef. But, as I understand, there seems to be consensus in this regard. One thing I still do not quite understand why we keep on having version information inside the structural information. Why is it not enough to let it only be the responsibility of the versioning system? As it is now, we are versioning the versions. If I understand correctly, the only reason is to accommodate legacy version information. If this is the case, I guess a possibility would be to just simulate this information in an initial commit, if we need it at all. Do I miss something? Cheers, Doru On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:03 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Yes our meta model could be improved. > > May be > > foo > <author: StephaneDucasse> > <time: > > > and the Browser could hide them > but this is not great > > Stef > >>> It's all done for you anyway, in the git commit. Who changed what >>> when, it's all done. >>> >> >> right, but same applies to methods. so why storing method's stamps but >> not classes? >> either you consistently do all the turtles way down, or end up with >> zoo full of alien species, where nobody can tell where are they came >> from and why :) >> >> I don't have a readily available solution of how we can painlessly >> migrate from stamps -> git commit stamps. >> Maybe we don't need stamps for classes in the form like methods have >> it, because maybe one day (especially for fresh projects), we can just >> git stamps for everything. >> >> And, sure thing, it doesn't related to filetree alone, >> because our development tools and metamodel inside images also lacks >> this information. >> But since we're talking about metainformation i wanted to note about >> that as well, if nobody else noticed that our information about system >> changes would be incomplete without this. >> >> >>> frank >>> >>> On 1 October 2012 19:42, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> oh, and i forgot the most important thing: >>>> >>>> classes should also have a stamp, i.e. author and date (and perhaps mood ;). >>>> Because it feels strange to me, that each method has stamp, even class >>>> comments has stamp, >>>> but not the classes. >>>> What if my sole change is adding/removing variable(s) or changing a superclass? >>>> This information (like who and when did that) is also very useful in >>>> same way as for methods. >>>> >>>> Yes, i know that Squeak/Pharo does not support that, not sure about >>>> other dialects. But we can do better isn't? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Igor Stasenko. >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Another sad day] a nice example of the mess with json in FileTree

by Dale Henrichs

Oct. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello bleedingEdge question

by Dale Henrichs

----- Original Message ----- | From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 12:26:25 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello bleedingEdge question | | > | It would be good to have specific rules for configurations. | > | > The Metacello Scripting api is intended to accomplish this | > particular goal â¦ | | I was thinking in terms of Slime for Seaside. | One PhD student is working on rule and I was thinking that it would | be fun to have a kind of | Metacello checker. | do you have some rule of thumb where to look for potential problems? | Because it can be a fun experience. There is a validator for Metacello called MetacelloMCVersionValidator ... this guy checks for the wellness/correctness of the configuration. You can get a view of the types of things checked for by inspecting the result of `MetacelloMCVersionValidator populateReasonCodeDescriptions`. Let's see with slime we can probably ensure that the configuration specification methods only send messages to the `spec` variable and that the messages being sent or in the `api` category of the MetacelloAbstractVersionConstructor class, this would be real useful... | | > the scripting api does not send class-side messages to | > configurations ... with the scripting api, the configuration | > reverts back to its original role of specification and | > #latestVersion isn't part of the specification. | | Excellent | | > I think you have produced an excellent piece of documentation â¦ | | Thanks but I want more. I ant you to tell me if I do not write | something wrong because people will read it. | | > While my english language skills may be better than yours, your | > writing skills are far superior to mine | | I do not know. I just write so that I can forget :) I need to release | the pressure in my mind. | | > ... I am a very poor writer ... I keep approaching the chapter as a | > writer and I want to completely rewrite things ... perhaps I | > should just act as a fact checker and copy editor? | | Sure | Do whatever you want and fit your energy, I just need feedback and I | want to close it. | I refrain myself to change and rewrite the chapter. I would like it | to be more straight to the point but I do not have the energy | anymore. | | > Pointing out factual errors and correcting the english to the best | > of my ability? | | perfect to me. | | I need feedback So if you can spot where I wrote something wrong this | is what I need. | If you spot englihs mistakes (I certainly do a lot of them) - please | let me know I will address them. | | I have no problem to write. I have problem to write wrong | information. Okay Stef ... I can approach this as an editor rather than a writer and give you my feedback that way ... at this point I have no more excuses ... I plan to devote several hours every week to this so that you can start seeing my feedback this week. Thanks for your perserverance and patience, Dale

Oct. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Another sad day] a nice example of the mess with json in FileTree

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes our meta model could be improved. May be foo <author: StephaneDucasse> <time: > and the Browser could hide them but this is not great Stef >> It's all done for you anyway, in the git commit. Who changed what >> when, it's all done. >> > > right, but same applies to methods. so why storing method's stamps but > not classes? > either you consistently do all the turtles way down, or end up with > zoo full of alien species, where nobody can tell where are they came > from and why :) > > I don't have a readily available solution of how we can painlessly > migrate from stamps -> git commit stamps. > Maybe we don't need stamps for classes in the form like methods have > it, because maybe one day (especially for fresh projects), we can just > git stamps for everything. > > And, sure thing, it doesn't related to filetree alone, > because our development tools and metamodel inside images also lacks > this information. > But since we're talking about metainformation i wanted to note about > that as well, if nobody else noticed that our information about system > changes would be incomplete without this. > > >> frank >> >> On 1 October 2012 19:42, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> oh, and i forgot the most important thing: >>> >>> classes should also have a stamp, i.e. author and date (and perhaps mood ;). >>> Because it feels strange to me, that each method has stamp, even class >>> comments has stamp, >>> but not the classes. >>> What if my sole change is adding/removing variable(s) or changing a superclass? >>> This information (like who and when did that) is also very useful in >>> same way as for methods. >>> >>> Yes, i know that Squeak/Pharo does not support that, not sure about >>> other dialects. But we can do better isn't? >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Oct. 1, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Another sad day] a nice example of the mess with json in FileTree

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

No it was quite ok :) Working at home, good music, view on my garden, flower and butterfly. Stef > Well, looks like a passionate person having had a bad day to me. > > Nothing to fret about, right? > > 2012/10/1 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > Sorry I should not have sent this mail. > I'm silly. > > Stef > > On Oct 1, 2012, at 7:00 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > Hi guys > > > > I was browsing (at least trying) to have a look at mist > > https://github.com/martinmcclure/mist/commit/b3103bd30be11dd8063aa9ce212a36… > > > > and this is so nice to see json code in the middle of Smalltalk methods. Look for class definitions there are > > great. Yes it will help newcomers to jump into Smalltalk. So great. > > We avoided the XML crap as in VW but apparently we will not avoid the shit of JSON. > > > > May be this is the clear indication that we should all stop to code in Smalltalk (a dead language anyway) and all switch to Javascript > > in a plain happiness. Have a look this is great to read class definitions and method categories like that. I love FileTree. I love JSON. > > > > What is terribly fun is that JSON could be good if we would not have a declarative syntax for exactly the same but > > new is always better. So long life to FileTree and JSON. > > > > Stef > > PS: Of course you can all piss on me, do it if this helps you. > > Now tell me that I do not have to use GitHub to browse code and all kind of nice argumentsâ¦ > > while at the same time, people are telling me the inverse. > > > > Yes I can stick with my old crappy browser and we will explain to our students that we were not able to use > > the syntax of our language to express nicely the same. > > > > PSPS: so do not ask me any help and support for such idea. > > >

Oct. 1, 2012