October 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] RE : spec + shortcuts

by Camillo Bruni

humm ok, that's too much work for me now, plus I cannot know the side-effects. For now I will take your fix in 6736 and create a keymapping only version. like that I can get it integrated this week plus test it. best cami On 2012-10-08, at 21:15, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > Hi Camillo, > > Sorry for not answering earlier; at the moment, I'm on duty and offline during daytime for two weeks :( > > For selecting by hand the focus, you can use takeKeyboardFocus on the model of the widget you want to activate; by default, Morphic selects the first keyboard interested morph. > > However, it may be hard to find the right place to set the keyboard focus after opening the window. I think that Spec should have the equivalent to VisualWorks' postBuildWith: and postOpenWith: (if my memory is right) to make that easier. > > Thierry > > ________________________________________ > De : pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] de la part de Camillo Bruni [camillobruni(a)gmail.com] > Date d'envoi : lundi 8 octobre 2012 20:17 > Ã : Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Development > Objet : [Pharo-project] spec + shortcuts > > I just looked at https://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6736 > Everything looks more or less ok, the keymapping integration is nice! > > I have one doubt though (and I really don't know anything about spec...). > > How do I explicitly set the default focus when opening an spec UI-item? > >

Oct. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Emacs and Smalltalk code

by Camillo Bruni

>> Being told so many times.. People still keep missing the point. >> Smalltalk is not just source code it is environment of live objects. >> Good luck manipulating live objects in emacs. > > Please show me a live object in a Browser. Please. No, not a textual > representation of a computation. Oh, that's right, you are STILL > writing source code prior to compiling. Fail. > >> It is , of course up to you, If you prefer to code in stone age. >> I, personally cannot code outside image, without browser , debugger and such.. > > That's a strawman. I WANT a debugger, I WANT inspectors. I also WANT a > proper top level syntax and the ability to use the thousands of tools > that everyone else in the WHOLE WORLD takes for granted. OK, I've > exceeded my capital letter quota for the day. (Also, clearly you've > never used SLIME. I know this because SLIME lets you do everything you > could want to, because it queries a real live running system to get > its information. And guess how the Lispers store their source code? In > text files, in git. shhh, that are no objects! how dare you storing smalltalk in git! > I have seen zero reason in my, er, 13 years of Smalltalk, why we > shouldn't enter source code in a proper text editor, with source > properly stored in files on a disk. Yes, I want to live inside a > running system as much as possible - not all the time, not being > forced to do so because we lack the tools - but as much as possible. > But source code is not a live object, it is text. And text should be > munged by text tools, and stored in text files, and kept in a > text-friendly source control system. but, but we have the fancied multi-media development environment. Plus we feature the greatest text editor with shortcuts only 1% of the developers know. > What else do you think bootstrapping is all about? It's taking some > tiny system, and making a recipe to lift that bootstrap, and that > recipe is not a living object, it is a specification, and it's written > in text. > > Smalltalk is wonderful, and the reason I still hack in it is because I > can find nothing else that comes close to its sense of aliveness and > engagement, and I nearly cry when I see the community reject things > because of some strange ideology with the result that we end up lost > in the dark. > Anyway. When I have something to show, I'll talk more on this topic. please!!

Oct. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Global session object?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Oct 8, 2012, at 4:12 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 8 October 2012 13:39, David T. Lewis <lewis(a)mail.msen.com> wrote: >> I like your idea, but just so this does not get overlooked: >> >> See also [Stack]Interpreter>>getThisSessionID which is used in e.g. >> OSProcessPlugin>>primitiveGetSession for external resource management. >> You could move the primitive into the interpreter if you wanted to make >> it mandatory. >> >> This is the same session identifier that is used in the file and socket >> plugins, so it might have some advantages over using a newly allocated >> object that would not get allocated until after the plugins are already >> initialized. But it does need VM support, so your Object new approach is >> better in that respect. >> > > yes, i saw that. > The issue with sessionID, generated by VM, that there is a chance of collision: > > globalSessionID := 0. > [globalSessionID = 0] > whileTrue: [globalSessionID := self > cCode: 'time(NULL) + ioMSecs()' > inSmalltalk: [(Random new next * SmallInteger maxVal) asInteger]]. how can they collide? I do not see it and it should be obvious. I want to learn :) > > while 'Object new' can never collide, no matter what happens :) > > Also, according to VM sources, this thing is obsolete, or at least not > used as it supposedly should be used, > like in primitive literal: > > Interpreter>>primitiveExternalCall > "Call an external primitive. The external primitive methods > contain as first literal an array consisting of: > * The module name (String | Symbol) > * The function name (String | Symbol) > * The session ID (SmallInteger) [OBSOLETE] > * The function index (Integer) in the externalPrimitiveTable > > (i don't remember where, i also seen more code, when hacking HydraVM, > with commented > sections of code which dealt with session id, but then turned into NOP). > > Another question, why session id was not exposed to language by VM > (your primitive in OSProcess plugin does that, but since plugin is > optional, the question remains the same). > > The proposed change is trivial to introduce and use, but what > important, it don't requires altering VM. > Altering VM in order to fix/improve session management, will > immediately bring new issue: how to play nicely when running images > which expect such feature to be present, while users (for no good > reason, of course ;) using old/obsolete VMs to run image. Go for it igor. But put a nice comment explaining the Object new > This is yet another thing which demonstrates that the less code you > put in VM, the less you have to maintain and care less about > compatibility issues. > That's why i think that VM should be stupid, contain no complex logic > and excessive features, only ones > which having good reason to stay there (either no way how to do same > thing in language, or gives a nice performance advantage). > >> Dave > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Oct. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] How do I add Keyboard Shortcuts to the ChangesBrowser?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Oct 8, 2012, at 12:45 AM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > How do I do that? > I am very lazy, each time I have to move my hand to the mouse I get exhausted... > For refactorings we have this nice ChangesBrowser that pops up. > > I would like to add the following features: > > - default selection on the first item in the list > - up/down changes selection > - CMD+s accept the changes > - ESC close the window YYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS > > how can I add the link to the keymapping shortcuts within this spec thingy? > >

Oct. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] spec + shortcuts

by Benjamin

You can specify the focus sequence by adding the sub widget into focusOrder self focusOrder add: widget1; add: widget2; etc Ben On Oct 8, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > I just looked at https://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6736 > Everything looks more or less ok, the keymapping integration is nice! > > I have one doubt though (and I really don't know anything about spec...). > > How do I explicitly set the default focus when opening an spec UI-item? >

Oct. 8, 2012

[Pharo-project] RE : spec + shortcuts

by GOUBIER Thierry

Hi Camillo, Sorry for not answering earlier; at the moment, I'm on duty and offline during daytime for two weeks :( For selecting by hand the focus, you can use takeKeyboardFocus on the model of the widget you want to activate; by default, Morphic selects the first keyboard interested morph. However, it may be hard to find the right place to set the keyboard focus after opening the window. I think that Spec should have the equivalent to VisualWorks' postBuildWith: and postOpenWith: (if my memory is right) to make that easier. Thierry ________________________________________ De : pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] de la part de Camillo Bruni [camillobruni(a)gmail.com] Date d'envoi : lundi 8 octobre 2012 20:17 Ã : Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Development Objet : [Pharo-project] spec + shortcuts I just looked at https://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6736 Everything looks more or less ok, the keymapping integration is nice! I have one doubt though (and I really don't know anything about spec...). How do I explicitly set the default focus when opening an spec UI-item?

Oct. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Emacs and Smalltalk code

by Frank Shearar

On 8 October 2012 19:22, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 8 October 2012 20:08, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 8 October 2012 19:02, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 8 October 2012 18:31, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Oscar E A CallaÃº <oalvarez(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: >>>>> I'm using Aquamacs (mac UI for emacs) as my default editor. But I have a problem, when trying to read a .st file, I don't get the syntax highlighting (so all is black-&-white). How I can solve this issue? >>>> >>>> Pharo/Smalltalk is not meant to be coded in Emacs, you have to use >>>> Pharo currently (that may change in the future). >>> >>> For shame, Damien. Why is Smalltalk not meant to be coded in a text >>> editor? It is text, after all. Next thing you'll suggest that one >>> shouldn't use git to store one's code. >> >> Alright, OK, I wrote that with at least 50% troll in the mix. (*) >> There's no reason why one shouldn't be able to use standard text >> manipulation techniques to hack on Smalltalk code. We simply never >> bothered doing so, and I dare say that the majority of people on this >> list are happy not supporting text-using tools. >> >> (*) OK, OK, 75%. >> > Being told so many times.. People still keep missing the point. > Smalltalk is not just source code it is environment of live objects. > Good luck manipulating live objects in emacs. Please show me a live object in a Browser. Please. No, not a textual representation of a computation. Oh, that's right, you are STILL writing source code prior to compiling. Fail. > It is , of course up to you, If you prefer to code in stone age. > I, personally cannot code outside image, without browser , debugger and such.. That's a strawman. I WANT a debugger, I WANT inspectors. I also WANT a proper top level syntax and the ability to use the thousands of tools that everyone else in the WHOLE WORLD takes for granted. OK, I've exceeded my capital letter quota for the day. (Also, clearly you've never used SLIME. I know this because SLIME lets you do everything you could want to, because it queries a real live running system to get its information. And guess how the Lispers store their source code? In text files, in git. I have seen zero reason in my, er, 13 years of Smalltalk, why we shouldn't enter source code in a proper text editor, with source properly stored in files on a disk. Yes, I want to live inside a running system as much as possible - not all the time, not being forced to do so because we lack the tools - but as much as possible. But source code is not a live object, it is text. And text should be munged by text tools, and stored in text files, and kept in a text-friendly source control system. What else do you think bootstrapping is all about? It's taking some tiny system, and making a recipe to lift that bootstrap, and that recipe is not a living object, it is a specification, and it's written in text. Smalltalk is wonderful, and the reason I still hack in it is because I can find nothing else that comes close to its sense of aliveness and engagement, and I nearly cry when I see the community reject things because of some strange ideology with the result that we end up lost in the dark. Anyway. When I have something to show, I'll talk more on this topic. frank >> frank >> > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Oct. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Emacs and Smalltalk code

by Oscar E A CallaÃº

On Oct 8, 2012, at 15:23 , Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > you can browse the code in pharo without loading it. > just drag file into image window and choose 'browse' in menu which will popup . Very nice, thanks for the tip. However, I still see the code in black-&-white :-( Cheers

Oct. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Emacs and Smalltalk code

by Igor Stasenko

On 8 October 2012 20:13, Oscar E A CallaÃº <oalvarez(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > Thanks guys for your replies. > > On Oct 8, 2012, at 15:02 , Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 8 October 2012 18:31, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Oscar E A CallaÃº <oalvarez(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: >>>> I'm using Aquamacs (mac UI for emacs) as my default editor. But I have a problem, when trying to read a .st file, I don't get the syntax highlighting (so all is black-&-white). How I can solve this issue? >>> >>> Pharo/Smalltalk is not meant to be coded in Emacs, you have to use >>> Pharo currently (that may change in the future). >> >> For shame, Damien. Why is Smalltalk not meant to be coded in a text >> editor? It is text, after all. Next thing you'll suggest that one >> shouldn't use git to store one's code. > > > Relax guys. I known that when programming in Pharo, it is better to use the built-in browser, like Nautilus. However in some cases, I have a Smalltalk file (.st) outside the image, and I just want to see the code and not installing (file-in, compiling, â¦) it. That is the reason, why asking for emacs. > you can browse the code in pharo without loading it. just drag file into image window and choose 'browse' in menu which will popup . > Cheers. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Emacs and Smalltalk code

by Igor Stasenko

On 8 October 2012 20:08, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 8 October 2012 19:02, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 8 October 2012 18:31, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Oscar E A CallaÃº <oalvarez(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: >>>> I'm using Aquamacs (mac UI for emacs) as my default editor. But I have a problem, when trying to read a .st file, I don't get the syntax highlighting (so all is black-&-white). How I can solve this issue? >>> >>> Pharo/Smalltalk is not meant to be coded in Emacs, you have to use >>> Pharo currently (that may change in the future). >> >> For shame, Damien. Why is Smalltalk not meant to be coded in a text >> editor? It is text, after all. Next thing you'll suggest that one >> shouldn't use git to store one's code. > > Alright, OK, I wrote that with at least 50% troll in the mix. (*) > There's no reason why one shouldn't be able to use standard text > manipulation techniques to hack on Smalltalk code. We simply never > bothered doing so, and I dare say that the majority of people on this > list are happy not supporting text-using tools. > > (*) OK, OK, 75%. > Being told so many times.. People still keep missing the point. Smalltalk is not just source code it is environment of live objects. Good luck manipulating live objects in emacs. It is , of course up to you, If you prefer to code in stone age. I, personally cannot code outside image, without browser , debugger and such.. > frank > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 8, 2012