October 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] pharo-2.0-tests Â» mac - Build # 418 - Still Failing!

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Oct. 17, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by Sebastian Sastre

awesome Dimitri visual processing is the most powerful part in our brain (dedicated to senses) so whatever you do, if isn't visual is wasting opportunities thanks for sharing, great point and intriguing project child's dreams are the best sebastian o/ On 17/10/2012, at 09:43, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > I am a blender developer , using python to make blender addons. My latest complete one is Gyes and Random Material and Texture Generator. http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/System/Gyes > > Since I was a child I was dreaming of making a system that would use GUIs like the one that I saw in many spaceship movies, fluid futuristic GUIs that could issue way more complex commands than our modern window type GUIs. It was a childs dream, filed as too ambitious and stored there with the rest of too far fetched child dreams. And it was early this year that I was introduced to Smalltalk. I really like python but it was obvious to me that I needed something a lot more. It was that itch I had to scratch. I was very impressed with morphic and squeak and the whole enviroment and of course pharo. I was looking for a live coding enviroment with an ephasis on visual side and I think smalltalk fit like a glove for me. Morphic fit exactly my lego brick logic, I am a very synthetic person I like to keep things minimal and simple and synthesize complex structures out of them. Its a workflow I follow with my entire life not just coding. > > So I started a thread in Blenderartists forum ( http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?250375-A-Visual-Programming-… ) about how people saw the possibility of implementing a visual programming enviroment for blender with a very flexible GUI. I thought it would be one of those threads that none really cared and people would say "we have python why bother with a visual coding enviroment at all, python is very easy to learn" or "why should I care about coding at all I am merely a user". And of course I had such reactions but to my surprise the thread just went viral and people seems very excited with the ideas of Ephestos. > > So we sat down with another developer using Morphic code from a smalltalk coder , that he made for python and pygame and we tried to port to Blender libraries instead. Code wise it went much better in our side , suprisingly enough both he and found Morphic very easy to understand. But we came across some severe bugs and limitations at blender side that make it evident that if I wanted to keep this in python I had to dirty my hands with some C and diving inside Blender source. > > It also became more and more evident that squeak and pharo already implemented many of the ideas I had for Ephestos, and there was no way I could port all the features both offered to python just me and another coder in our free time. So I did the logical thing. Droped the idea of keeping the project pure python and now I have slowly started to porting it to Squeak/Pharo and I am using sockets to communicate with blender. > > The goal is of course Visual Coding together with several other ideas I have for RAD. Its not something bound by goals but more an exploration of potential. If the project progress well, I think it will be a win for both blender and squeak/pharo. > > At one side Blender developer will be exposed to the true power and flexibility of smalltalk, at the other hand the smalltalk community will have access to such a powerful amazing 3d application as blender. So I think it will be a double win. > > My preference towards pharo has to do with Nativeboost , I think that it may play an important role in the future and of course there are libraries like Athens that I would love to explore but ideally I would like to make Ephestos compatible with both squeak and pharo. > > In essense squeak and pharo have been an inspiration for Ephestos and the true driving force for making it reality and I can see myself making Ephestos a life project because Its just pure fun for me working on something like that. > > > > > From: Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> > To: "pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Wednesday, 17 October 2012, 14:43 > Subject: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? > > Hey there, > > I'm collecting some stories from smalltalkers to tell people how exciting this is. > > Have something to share? > > What's your story with it? > > What got you excited? why it worked for you? > > sebastian > > o/ > > pd: I'm going to mention mainly about pharo and amber > >

Oct. 17, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by Damien Cassou

Hi Dimitris, On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:43 PM, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > I would like to make Ephestos compatible with both squeak and pharo. that's a nice story and I wish you success. That would be a win/win situation for everyone. I'm wondering why you want to be compatible with both Squeak and Pharo though. It looks like you will need a lot of additional time for this. If that's a high priority for you, you may still want to do a working prototype in one and then make it compatible with both. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

Oct. 17, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [PROVENANCE INTERNET] Re: RPackage by-hand code

by Goubier Thierry

Le 17/10/2012 15:04, Goubier Thierry a Ã©crit : > Le 17/10/2012 14:16, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >> I also would like to collect how your methods were missing... it is >> reproducible? > > I don't know. It happened apparently during a RPackageOrganizer > initialize in the past 8 or 10 updates, but I don't know if I can > reproduce it. Ok. In fact, I can reproduce it in a 20341 image (and probably in a later one as well). It's my Jejak package (code tracer) combined with the Jejak-Alt-Browser-Integration package. It loads fine, appear in the MC browser. Browse in MC Browser shows the four system categories (Jejak-Alt-Browser-Integration shouldn't be there, however, since there is a package of that name loaded). Now, if I do RPackageOrganizer initialize And I browse Jejak from the MC Browser, I get Jejak empty (no code, no extensions) Jejak-Alt-Browser-Integration empty (no code, no extension) (Nautilus contains nothing for Jejak, and nothing in _Unpackaged. Browser shows all the code). Thierry >> Esteban >> >> On Oct 17, 2012, at 1:58 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> is there an MCWorkingCopy of your code package? >>> >>> MCWorkingCopy allManagers. >>> >>> and a package info? >>> >>> PackageIngo allPackages. >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> On Oct 17, 2012, at 1:56 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Le 17/10/2012 13:49, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> RPackageOrganizer initialize. >>>>> >>>>> should do it. >>>>> >>>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> It doesn't. >>>> >>>> Trust me, I tried. Multiple times :( >>>> >>>> Thierry >>>> >>>>> On Oct 17, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Goubier Thierry >>>>> <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a problem in Pharo 2.0, among the recent updates, RPackage >>>>>> lost most of the code in one of my packages. Would someone know >>>>>> how to write a small script to force a reload in RPackage of a >>>>>> Smalltalk Category ? >>>>>> >>>>>> The code is still there, in the right system category, but neither >>>>>> Nautilus nor Monticello sees it, and I'm afraid of doing anything >>>>>> like saving the package which would erase most of what is in it. >>>>>> >>>>>> My Pharo version is 20346. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks in advance, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thierry >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Thierry Goubier >>>>>> CEA list >>>>>> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >>>>>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>>>>> France >>>>>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Thierry Goubier >>>> CEA list >>>> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >>>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>>> France >>>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Oct. 17, 2012

[Pharo-project] [update 2.0] #20347

by Esteban Lorenzano

20347 ----- Issue 6829: New Spec version http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6829 Diff information: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Pharo20/Spec-Widgets-EstebanLorenzano.69.diff http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Pharo20/Spec-Tools-EstebanLorenzano.60.diff http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Pharo20/Spec-Core-EstebanLorenzano.60.diff http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Pharo20/Spec-Bindings-EstebanLorenzano.16.diff

Oct. 17, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by Sebastian Sastre

fantastic feedback loop absolutely key sebastian o/ On 17/10/2012, at 09:16, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Oct 17, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Hi. One of things that people outside of the community was most impressed from the stuff I show/write is how we can serialize stacks/debuggers and move them to another image. This is a combination of a lot of stuff, but basically, a great dynamic language, with decent reflection capabilities, stack reified from the language side, and cool libraries that take that into account. >> Some links about this: >> >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/moving-contexts-and-debuggers-b… >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/reviving-ci-test-failures-in-lo… >> >> > > What I am most happy about is that we started (slowly) a feedback loop: Improving something gets easier because of an improvement we did. > > For me, this was one of the reasons to do Pharo... to not always destroy every improvement by saying: "No, this is not good enough". > > It is sad that especially intelligent people are very good at seeing the faults, but not realizing that building a feedback loop is more important > than being perfect with the first iteration... > > Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > >

Oct. 17, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by Sebastian Sastre

great point! sebastian o/ On 17/10/2012, at 09:05, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > Hey there, > > I'm collecting some stories from smalltalkers to tell people how exciting this is. > > Have something to share? > > What's your story with it? > > What got you excited? why it worked for you? > > > Hi. One of things that people outside of the community was most impressed from the stuff I show/write is how we can serialize stacks/debuggers and move them to another image. This is a combination of a lot of stuff, but basically, a great dynamic language, with decent reflection capabilities, stack reified from the language side, and cool libraries that take that into account. > Some links about this: > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/moving-contexts-and-debuggers-b… > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/reviving-ci-test-failures-in-lo… > > Good luck! > > > > sebastian > > o/ > > pd: I'm going to mention mainly about pharo and amber > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Oct. 17, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] RPackage by-hand code

by Goubier Thierry

Le 17/10/2012 14:16, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > I also would like to collect how your methods were missing... it is reproducible? I don't know. It happened apparently during a RPackageOrganizer initialize in the past 8 or 10 updates, but I don't know if I can reproduce it. It may have started when I added a companion MC package (a package with, as name, an extension to the main package) to the main one and the code was appearing in both the main package and the companion. Thierry > > Esteban > > On Oct 17, 2012, at 1:58 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> is there an MCWorkingCopy of your code package? >> >> MCWorkingCopy allManagers. >> >> and a package info? >> >> PackageIngo allPackages. >> >> Esteban >> >> On Oct 17, 2012, at 1:56 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: >> >>> Le 17/10/2012 13:49, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> RPackageOrganizer initialize. >>>> >>>> should do it. >>>> >>>> Esteban >>> >>> It doesn't. >>> >>> Trust me, I tried. Multiple times :( >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>>> On Oct 17, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I have a problem in Pharo 2.0, among the recent updates, RPackage lost most of the code in one of my packages. Would someone know how to write a small script to force a reload in RPackage of a Smalltalk Category ? >>>>> >>>>> The code is still there, in the right system category, but neither Nautilus nor Monticello sees it, and I'm afraid of doing anything like saving the package which would erase most of what is in it. >>>>> >>>>> My Pharo version is 20346. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance, >>>>> >>>>> Thierry >>>>> -- >>>>> Thierry Goubier >>>>> CEA list >>>>> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >>>>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>>>> France >>>>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thierry Goubier >>> CEA list >>> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>> France >>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>> >> > > > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Oct. 17, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] RPackage by-hand code

by Goubier Thierry

Le 17/10/2012 13:58, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > is there an MCWorkingCopy of your code package? > > MCWorkingCopy allManagers. Yes. > and a package info? > > PackageIngo allPackages. No. Thierry > Esteban > > On Oct 17, 2012, at 1:56 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > >> Le 17/10/2012 13:49, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : >>> Hi, >>> >>> RPackageOrganizer initialize. >>> >>> should do it. >>> >>> Esteban >> >> It doesn't. >> >> Trust me, I tried. Multiple times :( >> >> Thierry >> >>> On Oct 17, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I have a problem in Pharo 2.0, among the recent updates, RPackage lost most of the code in one of my packages. Would someone know how to write a small script to force a reload in RPackage of a Smalltalk Category ? >>>> >>>> The code is still there, in the right system category, but neither Nautilus nor Monticello sees it, and I'm afraid of doing anything like saving the package which would erase most of what is in it. >>>> >>>> My Pharo version is 20346. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance, >>>> >>>> Thierry >>>> -- >>>> Thierry Goubier >>>> CEA list >>>> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >>>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>>> France >>>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >> > > > > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Oct. 17, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by dimitris chloupis

I am a blender developer , using python to make blender addons. My latest complete one is Gyes and Random Material and Texture Generator. http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/System/Gyes Since I was a child I was dreaming of making a system that would use GUIs like the one that I saw in many spaceship movies, fluid futuristic GUIs that could issue way more complex commands than our modern window type GUIs. It was a childs dream, filed as too ambitious and stored there with the rest of too far fetched child dreams. And it was early this year that I was introduced to Smalltalk. I really like python but it was obvious to me that I needed something a lot more. It was that itch I had to scratch. I was very impressed with morphic and squeak and the whole enviroment and of course pharo. I was looking for a live coding enviroment with an ephasis on visual side and I think smalltalk fit like a glove for me. Morphic fit exactly my lego brick logic, I am a very synthetic person I like to keep things minimal and simple and synthesize complex structures out of them. Its a workflow I follow with my entire life not just coding. So I started a thread in Blenderartists forum ( http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?250375-A-Visual-Programming-… ) about how people saw the possibility of implementing a visual programming enviroment for blender with a very flexible GUI. I thought it would be one of those threads that none really cared and people would say "we have python why bother with a visual coding enviroment at all, python is very easy to learn" or "why should I care about coding at all I am merely a user".Â And of course I had such reactions but to my surprise the thread just went viral and people seems very excited with the ideas of Ephestos. So we sat down with another developer using Morphic code from a smalltalk coder , that he made for python and pygame and we tried to port to Blender libraries instead. Code wise it went much better in our side , suprisingly enough both he and found Morphic very easy to understand. But we came across some severe bugs and limitations at blender side that make it evident that if I wanted to keep this in python I had to dirty my hands with some C and diving inside Blender source. It also became more and more evident that squeak and pharo already implemented many of the ideas I had for Ephestos, and there was no way I could port all the features both offered to python just me and another coder in our free time. So I did the logical thing. Droped the idea of keeping the project pure python and now I have slowly started to porting it to Squeak/Pharo and I am using sockets to communicate with blender. The goal is of course Visual Coding together with several other ideas I have for RAD. Its not something bound by goals but more an exploration of potential. If the project progress well, I think it will be a win for both blender and squeak/pharo. At one side Blender developer will be exposed to the true power and flexibility of smalltalk, at the other hand the smalltalk community will have access to such a powerful amazing 3d application as blender. So I think it will be a double win. My preference towards pharo has to do with Nativeboost , I think that it may play an important role in the future and of course there are libraries like Athens that I would love to explore but ideally I would like to make Ephestos compatible with both squeak and pharo. In essense squeak and pharo have been an inspiration for Ephestos and the true driving force for making it reality and I can see myself making Ephestos a life project because Its just pure fun for me working on something like that. ________________________________ From: Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> To: "pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Wednesday, 17 October 2012, 14:43 Subject: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? Hey there, I'm collecting some stories from smalltalkers to tell people how exciting this is. Have something to share? What's your story with it? What got you excited? why it worked for you? sebastian o/ pd: I'm going to mention mainly about pharo and amber

Oct. 17, 2012