October 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [OT] Lars Bak on VM's

by Igor Stasenko

On 19 October 2012 10:03, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Lars Bak presents several language virtual machines (Self, Strongtalk, Hotspot), why they matter and how they influenced V8 and Dart. > > http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Performance-V8-Dart > > I agree when he states "I like Smalltalk" ;) > and i second his statement, about "most people find it hard to write concurrent code" :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Yet another Notation format: Object literals

by Igor Stasenko

On 19 October 2012 13:56, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 19 October 2012 13:40, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 19 October 2012 12:09, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> as i promised before, here the simple smalltalk-based literal format. >>> It based on smalltalk syntax, and so, unlike JSON, it doesn't needs to >>> have separate parser (a normal smalltalk parser used for that). >>> >>> The idea is quite simple: >>> you can tell any object to represent itself as an 'object literal' , >>> for example: >>> >>> (1@3) asObjectLiteral >>> --> #(#Point 1 3) >>> >>> { 1@2. 3@4. true. false . nil } asObjectLiteral >> >> This is basically Scala's unapply function: it permits objects to >> expose their internal structure (in any way they choose, of course). >> It looks like you've written a fairly generic one that would cover >> most use cases. >> >> This kind of destructuring lends itself to pattern matching [1] and >> unification [2][3]. > > well, my intent was to demonstrate a simple and straightforward way > how you can store virtually object as literal (in string) ahem .. virtually *any* object. > and read it back. and keep it fairly human readable, and without need > to use JSON ;) > > i don't mind, if it lends to extra stuff, that's even better :) > >> >> [1] http://www.lshift.net/blog/2011/05/15/algebraic-data-types-and-ometa2 >> (look for "Node>>unapply") >> [2] http://www.lshift.net/blog/2011/05/31/unification-pattern-matching-but-twic… >> [3] http://www.lshift.net/blog/2012/01/16/unifying-parts-of-structures >> >> frank >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Yet another Notation format: Object literals

by Igor Stasenko

On 19 October 2012 13:40, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 19 October 2012 12:09, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> as i promised before, here the simple smalltalk-based literal format. >> It based on smalltalk syntax, and so, unlike JSON, it doesn't needs to >> have separate parser (a normal smalltalk parser used for that). >> >> The idea is quite simple: >> you can tell any object to represent itself as an 'object literal' , >> for example: >> >> (1@3) asObjectLiteral >> --> #(#Point 1 3) >> >> { 1@2. 3@4. true. false . nil } asObjectLiteral > > This is basically Scala's unapply function: it permits objects to > expose their internal structure (in any way they choose, of course). > It looks like you've written a fairly generic one that would cover > most use cases. > > This kind of destructuring lends itself to pattern matching [1] and > unification [2][3]. well, my intent was to demonstrate a simple and straightforward way how you can store virtually object as literal (in string) and read it back. and keep it fairly human readable, and without need to use JSON ;) i don't mind, if it lends to extra stuff, that's even better :) > > [1] http://www.lshift.net/blog/2011/05/15/algebraic-data-types-and-ometa2 > (look for "Node>>unapply") > [2] http://www.lshift.net/blog/2011/05/31/unification-pattern-matching-but-twic… > [3] http://www.lshift.net/blog/2012/01/16/unifying-parts-of-structures > > frank > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Yet another Notation format: Object literals

by Frank Shearar

On 19 October 2012 12:09, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > as i promised before, here the simple smalltalk-based literal format. > It based on smalltalk syntax, and so, unlike JSON, it doesn't needs to > have separate parser (a normal smalltalk parser used for that). > > The idea is quite simple: > you can tell any object to represent itself as an 'object literal' , > for example: > > (1@3) asObjectLiteral > --> #(#Point 1 3) > > { 1@2. 3@4. true. false . nil } asObjectLiteral This is basically Scala's unapply function: it permits objects to expose their internal structure (in any way they choose, of course). It looks like you've written a fairly generic one that would cover most use cases. This kind of destructuring lends itself to pattern matching [1] and unification [2][3]. [1] http://www.lshift.net/blog/2011/05/15/algebraic-data-types-and-ometa2 (look for "Node>>unapply") [2] http://www.lshift.net/blog/2011/05/31/unification-pattern-matching-but-twic… [3] http://www.lshift.net/blog/2012/01/16/unifying-parts-of-structures frank

Oct. 19, 2012

[Pharo-project] Yet another Notation format: Object literals

by Igor Stasenko

Hi, as i promised before, here the simple smalltalk-based literal format. It based on smalltalk syntax, and so, unlike JSON, it doesn't needs to have separate parser (a normal smalltalk parser used for that). The idea is quite simple: you can tell any object to represent itself as an 'object literal' , for example: (1@3) asObjectLiteral --> #(#Point 1 3) { 1@2. 3@4. true. false . nil } asObjectLiteral -> #(#Array #(#Point 1 2) #(#Point 3 4) true false nil) (Dictionary newFromPairs: { 1->#(1 2 3) . 'foo' -> 'bar' }) asObjectLiteral -> #(#Dictionary 1 #(#Array 1 2 3) 'foo' 'bar') Next thing, you can 'pretty-print' it (kinda): #(#Dictionary 1 #(#Array 1 2 3) 'foo' 'bar') printObjectLiteral '#(#Dictionary 1 (#Array 1 2 3) ''foo'' ''bar'')' and sure thing, you can do reverse conversion: '#(#Dictionary 1 (#Array 1 2 3) ''foo'' ''bar'')' parseAsObjectLiteral a Dictionary('foo'->'bar' 1->#(1 2 3) ) Initially, i thought that it could be generic (by implementing default Object>>#asObjectLiteral), but then after discussing it with others, we decided to leave Object>>#asObjectLiteral to be a subclass responsibility. So, potentially the format allows to represent any object(s) as literals, except from circular referencing objects, of course. The implementation is fairly simple, as you may guess and contains no new classes, but just extension methods here and there. Take it with grain and salt, since it is just a small proof of concept. (And if doing it for real it may need some changes etc). Since i am far from areas right now, where it can be used, i don't want to pursue it further or advocate if this is the right way to do things. Neither i having a public repository for this project.. So, if there anyone who willing to pick it up and pursue the idea further, please feel free to do so and make a public repository for project. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 19, 2012

[Pharo-project] pharo-2.0-tests Â» win - Build # 424 - Still Failing!

by jenkins-pharo.ci.inria.fr＠jenkins-server.lille.inria.fr

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by dimitris chloupis

wow, that many people here ! you too ! Great stuff. I actually started doing 3d with 3d studio MAX 1. Yeah I played abit with Rhinoceros and POV. Though my big love has been Softimage XSI till blender stole me away. Great I may need your assistance if I have any question 3d and coding wise.Â ________________________________ From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Friday, 19 October 2012, 1:56 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? On 18 October 2012 22:30, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > good to know I am not the only 3d dude around here :D > - 3D Studio, Max, Rhinoceros 3D, Maya, POV.. (and some raytracers).. did 1 plugin for Max, and some exporters.. never used blender though.. and it was long ago :) > ________________________________ > From: "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be> > > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis > <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 23:27 > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? > > Bryce 7, Hexagon2.5, and Daz Studio 3D over here :-) > > Not sure I want Pharo to mix with those... but they make nice Pharo > backgrounds for sure. > > Phil > > 2012/10/18 dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > > yeap that would be great because that would mean I could share the same > window with blender and that I would have immediate access to all blender > functions . But that would require some hackery beyond my level of skill. > Who know maybe one day , I will be able to do just that. > > ________________________________ > From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis > <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 22:20 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? > > > On Oct 18, 2012, at 8:54 PM, dimitris chloupis wrote: > >> >> >> >> Hey Stef >> >> You mean this ? -> >> http://forum.world.st/WaveFront-File-importer-on-Pharo-td4640327.html >> >> Well not exactly a blender importer , but yes it could be used to import >> blender models. By the way , my goal is not to bring models of blender to >> pharo , but more to use pharo to "script" blender, as python is used now to >> make addons for blender. > > Yes I got it and this is a cool idea. Ideally I would love to have a really > small image with a vm that we can embed directly in software as blender and > script them :) > >> So I try to replace python with pharo. Of course visual coding is much >> more than that, but this is none the less my first step. I try to achieve >> this with triggering python command via sockets from pharo to blender. >> Ideally I could generate st methods and classes for all blender python >> methods and classes. But that is for much later. >> >> Still it could be handy to display 3d blender data in pharo. My vision is >> that both blender and pharo window will be displayed one next to the other, >> with the user using the pharo window doing visual coding or procedural >> generation of 3d objects , materials, textures , particles etc and seeing >> the final result in blender window. If you are familiar with Softimage ICE >> this is more or less the field of application for "Ephestos". But still >> could be handy to do some displaying in pharo as well so that the blender >> window could be minimised. >> >> This is a video with Softimage ICE. Quite interesting even if you are not >> interested in 3d graphics. >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=do1kzR6gVYk >> >> That could be extended even to blender game engine , so that pharo via >> blender can be used to make 3d games. So yeah sky is the limit. But for now >> , just basic sockets to trigger simple python eval commands and gradually >> build from there and see how far I can go with this idea. >> >> From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis >> <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> >> Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2012, 19:56 >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? >> >> for your information jb did a blender importer and you can play with >> blender 3d objects in Pharo. >> >> Stef >> >> >> On Oct 17, 2012, at 2:43 PM, dimitris chloupis wrote: >> >> > >> > I am a blender developer , using python to make blender addons. My >> > latest complete one is Gyes and Random Material and Texture Generator. >> > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/System/Gyes >> > >> > Since I was a child I was dreaming of making a system that would use >> > GUIs like the one that I saw in many spaceship movies, fluid futuristic GUIs >> > that could issue way more complex commands than our modern window type GUIs. >> > It was a childs dream, filed as too ambitious and stored there with the rest >> > of too far fetched child dreams. And it was early this year that I was >> > introduced to Smalltalk. I really like python but it was obvious to me that >> > I needed something a lot more. It was that itch I had to scratch. I was very >> > impressed with morphic and squeak and the whole enviroment and of course >> > pharo. I was looking for a live coding enviroment with an ephasis on visual >> > side and I think smalltalk fit like a glove for me. Morphic fit exactly my >> > lego brick logic, I am a very synthetic person I like to keep things minimal >> > and simple and synthesize complex structures out of them. Its a workflow I >> > follow with my entire life not just coding. >> > >> > So I started a thread in Blenderartists forum ( >> > http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?250375-A-Visual-Programming-… >> > ) about how people saw the possibility of implementing a visual programming >> > enviroment for blender with a very flexible GUI. I thought it would be one >> > of those threads that none really cared and people would say "we have python >> > why bother with a visual coding enviroment at all, python is very easy to >> > learn" or "why should I care about coding at all I am merely a user".Â And >> > of course I had such reactions but to my surprise the thread just went viral >> > and people seems very excited with the ideas of Ephestos. >> > >> > So we sat down with another developer using Morphic code from a >> > smalltalk coder , that he made for python and pygame and we tried to port to >> > Blender libraries instead. Code wise it went much better in our side , >> > suprisingly enough both he and found Morphic very easy to understand. But we >> > came across some severe bugs and limitations at blender side that make it >> > evident that if I wanted to keep this in python I had to dirty my hands with >> > some C and diving inside Blender source. >> > >> > It also became more and more evident that squeak and pharo already >> > implemented many of the ideas I had for Ephestos, and there was no way I >> > could port all the features both offered to python just me and another coder >> > in our free time. So I did the logical thing. Droped the idea of keeping the >> > project pure python and now I have slowly started to porting it to >> > Squeak/Pharo and I am using sockets to communicate with blender. >> > >> > The goal is of course Visual Coding together with several other ideas I >> > have for RAD. Its not something bound by goals but more an exploration of >> > potential. If the project progress well, I think it will be a win for both >> > blender and squeak/pharo. >> > >> > At one side Blender developer will be exposed to the true power and >> > flexibility of smalltalk, at the other hand the smalltalk community will >> > have access to such a powerful amazing 3d application as blender. So I think >> > it will be a double win. >> > >> > My preference towards pharo has to do with Nativeboost , I think that it >> > may play an important role in the future and of course there are libraries >> > like Athens that I would love to explore but ideally I would like to make >> > Ephestos compatible with both squeak and pharo. >> > >> > In essense squeak and pharo have been an inspiration for Ephestos and >> > the true driving force for making it reality and I can see myself making >> > Ephestos a life project because Its just pure fun for me working on >> > something like that. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From: Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> >> > To: "pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr" >> > <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >> > Sent: Wednesday, 17 October 2012, 14:43 >> > Subject: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? >> > >> > Hey there, >> > >> > I'm collecting some stories from smalltalkers to tell people how >> > exciting this is. >> > >> > Have something to share? >> > >> > What's your story with it? >> > >> > What got you excited? why it worked for you? >> > >> > sebastian >> > >> > o/ >> > >> > pd: I'm going to mention mainly about pharo and amber >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by dimitris chloupis

take a look at this link too ---> http://cgcookie.com/blender/get-started-with-blender/ Â If you need any further help send me your email at thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk I have several other recommendations but I dont want to derail this mailing list with out of topics . ________________________________ From: Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Sent: Friday, 19 October 2012, 0:10 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? kilon wrote > good to know I am not the only 3d dude around here :D Just for reference, I started with Caligari 24 in an Amiga 500 back in '94, then used trueSpace from version 1 to version 4 in Windows. Also played with POVray and 3D studio 4 (MSDOS). Today Blender is like a thousand levers machine to me. I simply can't understand it. But I have it installed, just in case the enlightenment comes. :) Regards! -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/what-is-your-pharo-story-tp4651655p4651890.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story?

by dimitris chloupis

You stroke 2 sensitive spots there for me, Truespace and Amiga 500. Till this day I consider Amiga 500 the best computer ever existed though I only owned an Amstrad CPC 6128 sadly Green screen monitor , making my eyes see all pink :D cause my father found Amigas too expensive. Till this day I disagree. I have used Truespace much later on windows and I loved its icon based interface and ease of use. Lovely 3d program. Blender is nuclear power compared to those old relics. 3d is without any exaggeration one of most technically complex fields of computing. So you feelings are absolutely normal. If you really want to learn blender and look for the easy way , then your best shot is blendercookie. It has tons of blender tutorials , they are loads of fun and all free ---> http://cgcookie.com/blender/ I find till this day video tutorials the best way to learn blender. They may be slow , but they build confidence and give you a lot more satisfaction than randomly trying on your own. ________________________________ From: Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Sent: Friday, 19 October 2012, 0:10 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] what is your pharo story? kilon wrote > good to know I am not the only 3d dude around here :D Just for reference, I started with Caligari 24 in an Amiga 500 back in '94, then used trueSpace from version 1 to version 4 in Windows. Also played with POVray and 3D studio 4 (MSDOS). Today Blender is like a thousand levers machine to me. I simply can't understand it. But I have it installed, just in case the enlightenment comes. :) Regards! -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/what-is-your-pharo-story-tp4651655p4651890.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] RPackage by-hand code

by Goubier Thierry

Le 19/10/2012 09:14, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > > On Oct 18, 2012, at 11:37 PM, GOUBIER Thierry wrote: > >> Hum. I don't know how to easily reproduce the bug, but you may see the result. >> >> Take the last 2.0 image for download, open a Monticello browser, select one of the Refactoring-Tests-* package, do browse package, and look at what's inside the browser. > > Yes I just found exactly the same problems. > I could not find the Refactoring-Tests and the classes are in the system but Nautilus is not able to show them. > Probably because RPackage sync is wrong. Ok, I think I have a way to reproduce it, or to check if it happens in another setup than mine: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6834#c3 On a 20351 default image executing RPackageOrganizer initialize. Will empty the following packages: Hudson* Metacello* Look at the result of Smalltalk allClasses select: [:each | (RPackageOrganizer default packageOf: each) packageName = RPackage defaultPackageName ] >> Can also be checked through: >> ReleaseTest>>testUnpackagedClasses >> : unpackagesClasses isn't empty. >> >> I believed it happened in a RPackageOrganizer initialize in one of the recent updates, but why? It does not happens everytime with my packages: sometimes it's one, another time it's three packages, and yet another time it's none. Esteban has my image, but it seems hard to reproduce. > > Ok thanks we will have a look. Thanks as well for trying to solve that. Thierry -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Oct. 19, 2012