October 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Is Athens a good candidate from my project "Ephestos" ?

by dimitris chloupis

Igor wanted to ask you but kept forgetting. I wanted to make my own GUI api for project "Ephestos" which is visual coding for pharo and 3d app Blender. At first NBOpenGL was a candidate , but now I also consider Athens , especially if you say you want to port morphic to it. I am certainly interested in vector based GUIs but another thing that interest me is GUIs with loads of animations like the ones you see in games. You think Athens is fast enough to be used for such busy interfaces ? I would prefer to make my own widgets / morphs and move away from the standard look of windows and buttons and more make it look like GUIs you see in games and Sci Fi movies since the fun factor is a big goal in my project. Since you are experienced in this than me , what you think ? The problem with NBOpenGL is that I fear I will have a lot more work to do, but that is debatable. Of course you implementing morphic in Athens even partially makes my life a lot easier. Another question I have is do I need Cairo installed to use Athens ? I would rather use something that does not require installations from the user. If yes is it possible to package Cairo with Pharo and Athens ? If anyone else want to jump and advice me, I am more than welcome it. ________________________________ From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2012, 18:49 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Topics for a term project in CG On 23 October 2012 17:09, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Ok, it took more than a month to decide, but the result is that we selected > the "Athens direction". Now we need more details about some of the tasks you > mentioned to select one: > > + integrating Athens with Morphic > > I'm possibly mistaken, but I thought you are already working on this? What > is the state of art here? What are the final objective, and what are the > recent tasks? Where to start? Right, this is not 'start from scratch', but more 'join and help' working style. The goal is integrate Athens into Morphic ecosystem, and make everything rendered via Athens, at the end, replacing completely balloon graphics engine. The state of art is: many Morphs are now can render themselves to athens canvas. Many of them still not there (but easy to implement). But most hard one is text morph, which doing layout etc.. i am currently working on it.. I implemented a text layout/rendering (by creating a new TextMorph subclass), but it means that all tools should use this morph.. which is not very good. Also, recently we started working on new text model. With the goal to replace an clean Text, text editing and text layout in our system (and sure thing , rendering). This is also requires a lot of work. > > + zoomable interface using Athens > > This sounds cool, but could you please explain the idea, how do you see > possible results? > This kind of work is rethinking the Pharo UI has in a way to employ zoomable (vector-based) capabilities of graphics engine. How you laying out windows on desktop to prevent clutter? How you design zoom in/out / pan etc. Just google for 'zooming UI' to see many related works. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/05/zoomable-interfaces.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8ZP23QsRd0&feature=gv > + Animation framework > > The question is almost the same: what kind of animation framework this could > be? Any prototypes and/or new ideas for it? > So, the idea is to look for animation in frameworks like SVG and Apple Animation Framework and design a framework with similar capabilities for Pharo. https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/Cor… http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/ The goal is to enable developers to easily express animations, and implement different visual effects like zoon-in/out, fade in/out, flip, sliding and mophing transitions etc -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Topics for a term project in CG

by Igor Stasenko

On 23 October 2012 17:09, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Ok, it took more than a month to decide, but the result is that we selected > the "Athens direction". Now we need more details about some of the tasks you > mentioned to select one: > > + integrating Athens with Morphic > > I'm possibly mistaken, but I thought you are already working on this? What > is the state of art here? What are the final objective, and what are the > recent tasks? Where to start? Right, this is not 'start from scratch', but more 'join and help' working style. The goal is integrate Athens into Morphic ecosystem, and make everything rendered via Athens, at the end, replacing completely balloon graphics engine. The state of art is: many Morphs are now can render themselves to athens canvas. Many of them still not there (but easy to implement). But most hard one is text morph, which doing layout etc.. i am currently working on it.. I implemented a text layout/rendering (by creating a new TextMorph subclass), but it means that all tools should use this morph.. which is not very good. Also, recently we started working on new text model. With the goal to replace an clean Text, text editing and text layout in our system (and sure thing , rendering). This is also requires a lot of work. > > + zoomable interface using Athens > > This sounds cool, but could you please explain the idea, how do you see > possible results? > This kind of work is rethinking the Pharo UI has in a way to employ zoomable (vector-based) capabilities of graphics engine. How you laying out windows on desktop to prevent clutter? How you design zoom in/out / pan etc. Just google for 'zooming UI' to see many related works. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/05/zoomable-interfaces.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8ZP23QsRd0&feature=gv > + Animation framework > > The question is almost the same: what kind of animation framework this could > be? Any prototypes and/or new ideas for it? > So, the idea is to look for animation in frameworks like SVG and Apple Animation Framework and design a framework with similar capabilities for Pharo. https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/Cor… http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/ The goal is to enable developers to easily express animations, and implement different visual effects like zoon-in/out, fade in/out, flip, sliding and mophing transitions etc -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Topics for a term project in CG

by Dennis Schetinin

Ok, it took more than a month to decide, but the result is that we selected the "Athens direction". Now we need more details about some of the tasks you mentioned to select one: > + integrating Athens with Morphic > > I'm possibly mistaken, but I thought you are already working on this? What is the state of art here? What are the final objective, and what are the recent tasks? Where to start? > + zoomable interface using Athens > > This sounds cool, but could you please explain the idea, how do you see possible results? > + Animation framework > > The question is almost the same: what kind of animation framework this could be? Any prototypes and/or new ideas for it? Best regards, Dennis Schetinin On Monday, 17 September 2012 Ð³. at 19:06, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 17 September 2012 12:16, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com (mailto:chaetal@gmail.com)> wrote: > > Hello! > > > > My student is looking for a topic for her term project/paper in area of > > Computer Graphics and UI maybe. I didn't pay enough attention to this area > > for some time, so I ask if there are some tasks we could help to solve here? > > Please note, she has no strong background in CG. One topic could be > > something about Morphic, but what is it exactly? Or any other idea is > > welcome also. > > > > And one more thing: our university imposes some additional requirements thus > > not every practically useful topic can be accepted, I'll have to select so > > more ideas is better. > > > > > Of course! We have a lot of topics related to GC: > > You should know , what Athens is, it is a vector graphics framework > we're currently working on. > > so, pick one (or two): > > + UI Widgets Framework for Athens > + integrating Athens with Morphic > + zoomable interface using Athens > + SVG importer for Athens > + Animation framework > + OpenGL backend for Athens > > i can guide and mentor, of course :) > > > TIA for any help. > > > > > > Best regards, > > Dennis Schetinin > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > >

Oct. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost VM on Windows

by Igor Stasenko

Just to be clear: - i can manually build all VMs with last & best fixes available.. but making those builds to be built automatically is completely different (and crazy/gory story). And this is what i am working on (and looks like i _almost_ nearly to finish it today). Almost, because you never know if it going to work on jenkins before you try .. and because we have crazy complexity with all metacello configs and git.. which also adds own mess to the soup. The point is , that if we cannot build VMs automatically, we dont have any artifact to propose to people: because they will be never able to reproduce it, because manual building process relies on intimate knowledge of a single person. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost VM on Windows

by Igor Stasenko

On 23 October 2012 14:50, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > you mean you will release them outside jenkins ? > no. I mean release on jenkins ;) Anything outside jenkins is not exists. > I already have a macos build back from september i think from jenkins. So I > can wait. Windows build is the one I dont have at all and I need it too. > Anyway thanks for the effort Igor. > > > ________________________________ > From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis > <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2012, 15:48 > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost VM on Windows > > On 23 October 2012 14:28, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> macos lion builds are welcomed too ;) >> > yes, that already fixed, but waits for update (after i finish with windows). > > >> ________________________________ >> From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2012, 15:17 >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost VM on Windows >> >> On 23 October 2012 13:30, Henrik Sperre Johansen >> <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >>> Where do I find one? >>> The one in oneclick distribution returns nil from NativeBoost platformId, >>> and the one for win platform in "NativeBoost-Cog-VM" Jenkins platform >>> doesn't seem to have any succesfully built versions... >>> >> >> I going to release new version(s) of win32 VMs very soon. >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost VM on Windows

by Igor Stasenko

On 23 October 2012 14:28, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > macos lion builds are welcomed too ;) > yes, that already fixed, but waits for update (after i finish with windows). > ________________________________ > From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2012, 15:17 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost VM on Windows > > On 23 October 2012 13:30, Henrik Sperre Johansen > <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >> Where do I find one? >> The one in oneclick distribution returns nil from NativeBoost platformId, >> and the one for win platform in "NativeBoost-Cog-VM" Jenkins platform >> doesn't seem to have any succesfully built versions... >> > > I going to release new version(s) of win32 VMs very soon. > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Hello + postgresql

by roberto.minelli＠usi.ch

Il giorno 23-ott-2012, alle ore 14:14, "Mariano Martinez Peck" <marianopeck(a)gmail.com<mailto:marianopeck@gmail.com>> ha scritto: On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:57 PM, roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch<mailto:roberto.minelli@usi.ch> <roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch<mailto:roberto.minelli@usi.ch>> wrote: Thank you for the answer. Actually I put Pharo in standby for a while (deadlines are coming!) The last thing I tried to do, was a query on a relatively big database (~10m entries) and every time I issued the query, Pharo quitted unexpectedly. mmmm I am not sure anyone did a 10m entries before. Maybe the issue can be related to the memory allocated by FFI, no idea. In either case, if you have time later, we would love to have more information. I'll provide more info next week ;) As soon as I resume my tests with Pharo, Postgres, OpenDBX, and Glorp I'll for sure get back to you! By now thanks for your answer. Anyway, did someone manage to install OpenDBX on a Mac running Mountain Lion (and Pharo 2.0)? As far as I rememer I had problems in compiling and installing OpenDBX native driver. However, I'll post more detailed question as soon as I resume my tests :) Indeed, compiling and building is the worst task. But once that is done, the rest is easy. I don't remember if there is anyone using DBX with Montain Lion. However, we did manage to build openDBX in 64 bits (you have to use some flags to be sure to compile in 32 bits). And then you need to be sure of installing the 32 bits client library of the database. Not sure what happens with LLVM instead of GCC (never tried) but I guess it should work. Otherwise, try to force to compile with GCC. Anyway, how were you able to query the database if you had problems with the compilation of openDBX? Using the native Postgres drivers installed on Pharo 1.4. Thanks Cheers, Roberto Il giorno 22-ott-2012, alle ore 22:42, "Mariano Martinez Peck" <marianopeck(a)gmail.com<mailto:marianopeck@gmail.com><mailto:marianopeck@gmail.com<mailto:marianopeck@gmail.com>>> ha scritto: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:38 PM, roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch<mailto:roberto.minelli@usi.ch><mailto:roberto.minelli@usi.ch<mailto:roberto.minelli@usi.ch>> <roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch<mailto:roberto.minelli@usi.ch><mailto:roberto.minelli@usi.ch<mailto:roberto.minelli@usi.ch>>> wrote: I managed to have Pharo 1.4 with a working version of PostgresV2 native driver. I'll try with a fresh image and dbxtalk and let you guys know. You can see our set of tools here: http://dbxtalk.smallworks.com.ar/tools Il giorno 19-ott-2012, alle ore 18:05, "Yanni Chiu" <yanni(a)rogers.com<mailto:yanni@rogers.com><mailto:yanni@rogers.com<mailto:yanni@rogers.com>>> ha scritto: > On 19/10/12 4:05 AM, roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch<mailto:roberto.minelli@usi.ch><mailto:roberto.minelli@usi.ch<mailto:roberto.minelli@usi.ch>> wrote: >> >> I already received some answers, but further hints are appreciated. > > Just download a Pharo-1.4 one-click, and proceed to install and setup up dbxtalk (see: http://dbxtalk.smallworks.com.ar/) The dbxtalk stuff has the option to use the native PostgreSQL driver. > > IMHO, further up front investigation is going to be of limited value. I already tried, tried and tried. I just wrote in the mailing list after severa trials. However next time I'll write when I encounter specific problems ;) > Just dive in, and ask specific questions as you work through it (e.g. where do I find ...? Is ... supposed to be working, because I did ..., and it didn't work). Thank you, > Roberto -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Oct. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost VM on Windows

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

On 23.10.2012 14:17, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 23 October 2012 13:30, Henrik Sperre Johansen > <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >> Where do I find one? >> The one in oneclick distribution returns nil from NativeBoost platformId, >> and the one for win platform in "NativeBoost-Cog-VM" Jenkins platform >> doesn't seem to have any succesfully built versions... >> > I going to release new version(s) of win32 VMs very soon. > :D

Oct. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost VM on Windows

by dimitris chloupis

macos lion builds are welcomed too ;) ________________________________ From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2012, 15:17 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost VM on Windows On 23 October 2012 13:30, Henrik Sperre Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: > Where do I find one? > The one in oneclick distribution returns nil from NativeBoost platformId, > and the one for win platform in "NativeBoost-Cog-VM" Jenkins platform > doesn't seem to have any succesfully built versions... > I going to release new version(s) of win32 VMs very soon. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 23, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost VM on Windows

by Igor Stasenko

On 23 October 2012 13:30, Henrik Sperre Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: > Where do I find one? > The one in oneclick distribution returns nil from NativeBoost platformId, > and the one for win platform in "NativeBoost-Cog-VM" Jenkins platform > doesn't seem to have any succesfully built versions... > I going to release new version(s) of win32 VMs very soon. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 23, 2012