January 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Frank Shearar

On 12 January 2012 10:07, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2012/1/12 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> >> >> >> but UI building is just one part of the story. If after you just get a >> long initialize methods then nothing gets really reused. >> > > Yes, > It is reason why I hate VisualStudio and Delphi approaches. It is imposible > to create reusable components of user interface applications. Er, no. It's easy to make reusable UI components in Delphi. In fact (modulo my experience, of Delphi 3 -> Delphi 7) that was (*) its main strength. frank (*) I haven't used Delphi in a number of years, but I would be surprised to learn that its UI framework degraded into rubbish.

Jan. 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jan 12, 2012, at 11:07 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: > 2012/1/12 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > but UI building is just one part of the story. If after you just get a long initialize methods then nothing gets really reused. > > > Yes, > It is reason why I hate VisualStudio and Delphi approaches. It is imposible to create reusable components of user interface applications. I was not aware of that. We are doing a controlled experience with Benjamin to understand: - how to declare UI element placement - a same model should be able to have different UI - how to reuse UI widgets and so far it looks promising. and this is closed to VW: valueHolder + spec. After if a UIbuilder can help placing UI elements and generate spec this will be cool. Stef

Jan. 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Denis Kudriashov

2012/1/12 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > but UI building is just one part of the story. If after you just get a > long initialize methods then nothing gets really reused. > > Yes, It is reason why I hate VisualStudio and Delphi approaches. It is imposible to create reusable components of user interface applications.

Jan. 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

but UI building is just one part of the story. If after you just get a long initialize methods then nothing gets really reused. Stef On Jan 12, 2012, at 10:48 AM, Stefan Marr wrote: > Hi Gerry: > > On 12 Jan 2012, at 10:13, Gerry Weaver wrote: > >> I've been thinking about the idea of an alternate IDE quite a bit. What I'm envisioning would be something akin to the Delphi IDE. Delphi is probably the most productive gui based environment I've ever worked in. > > Could you point me to screenshots? > Because I fear that you are talking about what I used to know as Borland Delphi.(http://www.blichmann.de/en/programming/delphi/themeddelphi/luna.png) > Not that it is bad, but like Visual Studio and Eclipse, the main concepts are IMO as dated as what you got in Pharo. > > If you are just looking for a UI designer, have you seen this? https://www.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/trac/SqueakCommunityProjects/wiki… > > > I would rather be interested in a 'more fluid' version of Hopscotch: > http://bracha.org/hopscotch-wasdett.pdf > > Did not find a good demo without digging to much (there is one somewhere on youtube) > but maybe this is already close enough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gGJ2y0BNkpc#t=1536s > > Best regards > Stefan > > > -- > Stefan Marr > Software Languages Lab > Vrije Universiteit Brussel > Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium > http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr > Phone: +32 2 629 2974 > Fax: +32 2 629 3525 > >

Jan. 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Stefan Marr

Hi Gerry: On 12 Jan 2012, at 10:13, Gerry Weaver wrote: > I've been thinking about the idea of an alternate IDE quite a bit. What I'm envisioning would be something akin to the Delphi IDE. Delphi is probably the most productive gui based environment I've ever worked in. Could you point me to screenshots? Because I fear that you are talking about what I used to know as Borland Delphi.(http://www.blichmann.de/en/programming/delphi/themeddelphi/luna.png) Not that it is bad, but like Visual Studio and Eclipse, the main concepts are IMO as dated as what you got in Pharo. If you are just looking for a UI designer, have you seen this? https://www.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/trac/SqueakCommunityProjects/wiki… I would rather be interested in a 'more fluid' version of Hopscotch: http://bracha.org/hopscotch-wasdett.pdf Did not find a good demo without digging to much (there is one somewhere on youtube) but maybe this is already close enough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gGJ2y0BNkpc#t=1536s Best regards Stefan -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

Jan. 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hello Gerry > Hello All, > > > I've been thinking about the idea of an alternate IDE quite a bit. What I'm envisioning would be something akin to the Delphi IDE. Delphi is probably the most productive gui based environment I've ever worked in. It would be very interesting to combine Smalltalk with such an environment. My feeling about the current IDE is that it is somewhat dated. + 1000000 > It was designed at a time when monitors were the size of port holes. I think an updated environment would go a long way to making the language more interesting and accessible. The difficult part about Smalltalk certainly isn't the language, it's the strange IDE layout. If that barrier were to be removed, then a person could really hit the ground running. The only real difference I would see between the old and the new would be the code editor. The rest would just be a little rearranging of what is already there. I'm slowly talking my self > into actually starting down the road a bit. I think I'll try to find a few days that I can spend doing some investigating. > > Any thoughts? Brainstorm using glamour to prototype something. We definitively need innovation and rethink how we work. I can tell you that what we have is not what I dream of. Stef > > > Thanks, > Gerry > > > > > > >

Jan. 12, 2012

[Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Gerry Weaver

Hello All, I've been thinking about the idea of an alternate IDE quite a bit. What I'm envisioning would be something akin to the Delphi IDE. Delphi is probably the most productive gui based environment I've ever worked in. It would be very interesting to combine Smalltalk with such an environment. My feeling about the current IDE is that it is somewhat dated. It was designed at a time when monitors were the size of port holes. I think an updated environment would go a long way to making the language more interesting and accessible. The difficult part about Smalltalk certainly isn't the language, it's the strange IDE layout. If that barrier were to be removed, then a person could really hit the ground running. The only real difference I would see between the old and the new would be the code editor. The rest would just be a little rearranging of what is already there. I'm slowly talking my self into actually starting down the road a bit. I think I'll try to find a few days that I can spend doing some investigating. Any thoughts? Thanks, Gerry

Jan. 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cloudfork on Pharo under GLASS??

by Jan van de Sandt

Hello Larry, Cloudfork was developed on Pharo Smalltalk and ported to VW and VA Smalltalk. But not yet to Gemstone. We tried to isolate the platform specific code. Most of it is implemented as platform specific subclasses of CFPlatformServiceUtils. CloudforkAWS requires an XML parser, a SHA1 or SHA256 implementation and a HTTP client. I don't know if it has been done before but I think it should be possible to create a platform class for Gemstone that offers access to these functions. I don't have experience with Gemstone. The GLASS mailing list is probably the best source to ask. Jan. On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Lawrence Kellogg <mac.hive(a)me.com> wrote: > Hello, > I am in the process of moving my application over to GLASS. I had been > developing using one-click Pharo with Cloudfork and all of my calls > to the Amazon services were working correctly. > > Now, I'm trying to do the same thing under Gemstone GLASS. I have loaded > a bunch of the Cloudfork packages and > I am able to instantiate an S3 bucket in Amazon but I am running into > authentication problems when I try to create something in the bucket, due > to missing pieces of the > SHA1 class. Are there directions somewhere on how to set this up under > GLASS? Has it been done before? > > Thanks for the help! > > Larry >

Jan. 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:

by H. Hirzel

On 1/10/12, Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > While deciders still reflect upon what programming language and framework > to use, thinking about Java, .NET ... , Google and Apple have set new > standards by pushing LLVM, V8, Webkit, node.js with a tremendous amount of > money to perfection. > > Look at this example: > > http://monocle.inventivelabs.com.au/books/dubliners Works in Google chrome version 16 I cannot turn the pages in FF9.0.1, nor in Opera 11.60. > > An epub reader object, good example for "ambient oriended programming". The > reader behaves like an native app, independent on architecture, processor > and os, touch, nontouch. Simply runs in every browser. And browser has > javascript language bindings to all hardware, GPS, barometer, wifi, GSM, > touch interface, mouse, cam .... if available. > > Porting PHARO onto Amber makes sense for me. Nothing else. COGVM, browser > plugin, touch interface, portability discussion finished! IMHO the only > chance for Smalltalk to come to new life. Yes, every computer including tablet computer and many mobile phones come with a virtual machine pre-installed. This VM interprets JavaScript. JavaScript is the VM of the web. http://www.dynamic-languages-symposium.org/dls-10/program/media/AllenWirfsB… slide 30 Or as Dan Ingalls puts it "JavaScript is _the_ assembly language of the internet". http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2008-September/13125… Having an environment to do Smalltalk programming on this VM makes sense. JavaScript is actually a simple and clean language if you just look at the core language (no DOM, no browser objects). There are objects (like dictionaries in Smalltalk) and arrays which are specialized objects. And there are functions which are objects as well (including closures). Primitives values (Number, String, Boolean) behave as objects as well (read-only properties as changing the state does not make sense). Alan Wirfs-Brock is co-editor of the ECMAScript 5.1 specification http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/ECMA-262%20edi… In ECMAscript 5 (for example as implemented in IE9) a lot of Smalltalk constructs may be used 1:1. http://www.dynamic-languages-symposium.org/dls-10/program/media/AllenWirfsB… However as the example of the book reader shows there are problems with different implementations not supporting all the APIs. This as well applies to Amber where a lot more tests are needed. Regards Hannes Hirzel > regards, Guido Stepken > Am 10.01.2012 09:29 schrieb "Friedrich Dominicus" < > frido(a)q-software-solutions.de>: > >> Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> writes: >> >> > Yes, we do: the (outer) world is getting worse and worse :) >> No not really. See there is Objective-C in fifth place. That is not too >> bad. JavaScript is up also and that is very much a Smalltalk in >> disguise. YES. I'd just would appreciate if Smalltalk was at least among the >> first 10. At least that would be deserved. Anyway if you see Smalltalk >> as "idea" supplier for Object-oriented languages, one can see that OO >> really rules. An argument to learn Smalltalk as a first language? Down to Transact-SQL all the languages offer more or less >> support for OO-programming. Some even claim to be object-oriented ;-) >> >> There is not one language among the first 15 which does not offer >> anything about OO. See even Visual Basic uses it. >> >> Well it's not that this may all too much, but it's still obvious. OO is >> currently the "way to go". >> >> I for my part would appreciate some more support for functional >> languages. But to some extend all of them at least support it >> partially. What is astonishing is the rank of R. That I think can be >> seen as "unexpected". >> >> >> -- >> Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim >> Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus >> >> >

Jan. 12, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re:NativeBoost and NBOpenGL on Mac?

by Lawson English

On 1/11/12 3:54 PM, ncalexan wrote: > On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Igor Stasenko [via Smalltalk] > <[hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4287190&i=0>> wrote: > > > On 11 January 2012 20:10, Lawson English <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> [pharo list added back in for real this time] > >> > >> Would it be best to have a VM primitive that actually gives this > info in a > >> cross-platform way since it is going to be more and more useful as > time > >> goes > >> on? > >> > > > > one big issue with such primitive is lack of options which i able to > > contol for context i creating. > > As you may know there's a lot of different options , like > > - depth buffer bits, color buffer bits, alpha bits number of back > > buffers, subpixel antialiazing, > > auxuliarry buffers etc > > > > as i said before in other posts.. it is really hard to create a > > primitive which will allow > > you to control all those options, especially a cross-platform one. > > +1. I have been experimenting with an FFI interface to libSDL, a > cross-platform game library that abstracts window and context creation > (as well as input). It works quite well under Mac OS X but I expect > there will be more work to make it run smoothly under Windows and > Linux. > > It is my opinion that duplicating such functionality in Squeak/Pharo > is a poor use of resources. > I guess it depends on your definition of primitive and just what it can do. L.

Jan. 12, 2012