January 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] executing a script in headless mode?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 14 Jan 2012, at 19:28, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras wrote: > file://home/vonbecmann/pharo-projects/trunk/set-up.st /home/vonbecmann/pharo-projects/trunk/set-up.st should work just as well.

Jan. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Interesting] Drive to remove unused code in LibreOffice

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jan 14, 2012, at 12:55 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > http://www.i-programmer.info/news/136-open-source/3607-drive-to-remove-unus… > > probably a problem in every large code base :) so a lot of energy to get it done. Now this should be easier for them because they should not have users and extender of their system.

Jan. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Design change possible with fast SSD's possible?

by Stefan Marr

On 14 Jan 2012, at 19:34, Guido Stepken wrote: > Read about "wear leveling"? So, no problem with write cycles. For example yffs2 filesystem gives you a tremendous gain in lifetime of your USB flash storage. Just tell your OS to use your SSD as swap drive, and you got what you want. Without any VM changes. Best regards Stefan -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

Jan. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Design change possible with fast SSD's possible?

by Michael Haupt

... BTW that's what I meant with optimisations. Am 14.01.2012 um 19:34 schrieb Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com>: > Read about "wear leveling"? So, no problem with write cycles. For example yffs2 filesystem gives you a tremendous gain in lifetime of your USB flash storage. > > regards, Guido Stepken > > Am 14.01.2012 15:56 schrieb "Michael Haupt" <mhaupt(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > > 2012/1/14 Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si>: > > Conclusion? Why RAM won't be just a L3 cache in a whole hiearchy of > > caching from SSD up to CPU? Automatic, supported by OS or even hardware, > > as CPU caches are? Then image wont be needed to be read to RAM and > > snapshoted back to disk, it can be run directly from disk. > > SSDs are Flash memory. The number of write cycles is limited before > the memory starts to fail. Smalltalk frequently performs GC, which > involves moving objects, i.e., writing. Writing is also much slower > than reading, and AFAIK possible only block-wise (with a block being > significantly larger than your average object). Flash file systems > apply optimisations to distribute writing evenly, avoiding excessive > writing in some places and consequent earlier failure. > > Best, > > Michael >

Jan. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Design change possible with fast SSD's possible?

by Michael Haupt

... thanks for the pointer. How about writing speed and modalities? Am 14.01.2012 um 19:34 schrieb Guido Stepken <gstepken(a)googlemail.com>: > Read about "wear leveling"? So, no problem with write cycles. For example yffs2 filesystem gives you a tremendous gain in lifetime of your USB flash storage. > > regards, Guido Stepken > > Am 14.01.2012 15:56 schrieb "Michael Haupt" <mhaupt(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > > 2012/1/14 Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si>: > > Conclusion? Why RAM won't be just a L3 cache in a whole hiearchy of > > caching from SSD up to CPU? Automatic, supported by OS or even hardware, > > as CPU caches are? Then image wont be needed to be read to RAM and > > snapshoted back to disk, it can be run directly from disk. > > SSDs are Flash memory. The number of write cycles is limited before > the memory starts to fail. Smalltalk frequently performs GC, which > involves moving objects, i.e., writing. Writing is also much slower > than reading, and AFAIK possible only block-wise (with a block being > significantly larger than your average object). Flash file systems > apply optimisations to distribute writing evenly, avoiding excessive > writing in some places and consequent earlier failure. > > Best, > > Michael >

Jan. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Design change possible with fast SSD's possible?

by Guido Stepken

Read about "wear leveling"? So, no problem with write cycles. For example yffs2 filesystem gives you a tremendous gain in lifetime of your USB flash storage. regards, Guido Stepken Am 14.01.2012 15:56 schrieb "Michael Haupt" <mhaupt(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > > 2012/1/14 Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si>: > > Conclusion? Why RAM won't be just a L3 cache in a whole hiearchy of > > caching from SSD up to CPU? Automatic, supported by OS or even hardware, > > as CPU caches are? Then image wont be needed to be read to RAM and > > snapshoted back to disk, it can be run directly from disk. > > SSDs are Flash memory. The number of write cycles is limited before > the memory starts to fail. Smalltalk frequently performs GC, which > involves moving objects, i.e., writing. Writing is also much slower > than reading, and AFAIK possible only block-wise (with a block being > significantly larger than your average object). Flash file systems > apply optimisations to distribute writing evenly, avoiding excessive > writing in some places and consequent earlier failure. > > Best, > > Michael > >

Jan. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] executing a script in headless mode?

by Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras

forget it, i made a mistake, i wrote file://home/vonbecmann/pharo-projects/trunk/set-up.st with two slash and it's only one, so now it works. thanks. On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras < vonbecmann(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Cami, > II've tried the following steps: > > Steps: > > # ${vm} -vm-display-null -vm-sound-null ${path to image} file:/${absolute > script path} > > Actual Result: > # quit but i get a PharoDebug.log with a message "no contents to install" > > Expected Result: > # To save the settings and quit. > > thanks. > > On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 5:09 AM, Camillo Bruni <camillo.bruni(a)inria.fr>wrote: > >> There's a bug in the current image (will be integrated soon) >> To avoid any issues make sure to add a full url inclusive a scheme (in >> this case file:/) >> >> ${vm} -vm-display-null -vm-sound-null ${path to image} file:/${absolute >> script path} >> >> >> BTW: you can also specify http:// urls :) >> >> best >> cami >> >> On 2012-01-14, at 08:43, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> > On 14 Jan 2012, at 03:52, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I'm trying to execute a simple script in headless mode in order to >> setup some basic settings but it seems not to work right now. >> >> I've used this idea a lot to build my images. >> >> >> >> Do i have to install some package?? >> >> >> >> Pharo image: Pharo1.4a#14283 >> >> Virtual machine used: CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.138 uuid: >> f9a63bdf-7bbc-4ae5-9634-ecd6fd814c9d Nov 17 2011, >> StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.139 uuid: >> c2849383-9768-4948-b9b2-a5c22d482b07 Nov 17 2011, r2515 >> http://www.squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/branches/Cog >> >> Platform Name: unix >> >> Class browser used (if applicable): Browser >> >> >> >> Steps to reproduce: >> >> #. ${vm} -vm-display-null -vm-sound-null ${path to image} ${path to >> the directory that contains the script}/set-up.st >> >> >> >> Actual Result: >> >> #. it doesn't quit. >> >> >> >> Expected Result: >> >> #. To save the settings and quit. >> >> >> >> >> >> === set-up.st === >> >> Author fullName: 'BernardoContreras'. >> >> >> >> Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: true. >> >> ============ >> >> >> >> Thanks >> > >> > Make sure that ${path to the directory that contains the script}/ >> set-up.st is absolute. You also need .changes and .sources in the right >> directory. Is a PharoDebug.log written ? >> > >> > You could also try to add this to your script (in 1.4) to get more >> feedback: >> > >> > NonInteractiveTranscript stdout install. >> > Transcript crShow: 'Starting â¦'. >> > >> > "â¦" >> > >> > Sven >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >

Jan. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] executing a script in headless mode?

by Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras

Cami, II've tried the following steps: Steps: # ${vm} -vm-display-null -vm-sound-null ${path to image} file:/${absolute script path} Actual Result: # quit but i get a PharoDebug.log with a message "no contents to install" Expected Result: # To save the settings and quit. thanks. On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 5:09 AM, Camillo Bruni <camillo.bruni(a)inria.fr>wrote: > There's a bug in the current image (will be integrated soon) > To avoid any issues make sure to add a full url inclusive a scheme (in > this case file:/) > > ${vm} -vm-display-null -vm-sound-null ${path to image} file:/${absolute > script path} > > > BTW: you can also specify http:// urls :) > > best > cami > > On 2012-01-14, at 08:43, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > On 14 Jan 2012, at 03:52, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I'm trying to execute a simple script in headless mode in order to > setup some basic settings but it seems not to work right now. > >> I've used this idea a lot to build my images. > >> > >> Do i have to install some package?? > >> > >> Pharo image: Pharo1.4a#14283 > >> Virtual machine used: CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.138 uuid: > f9a63bdf-7bbc-4ae5-9634-ecd6fd814c9d Nov 17 2011, > StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.139 uuid: > c2849383-9768-4948-b9b2-a5c22d482b07 Nov 17 2011, r2515 > http://www.squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/branches/Cog > >> Platform Name: unix > >> Class browser used (if applicable): Browser > >> > >> Steps to reproduce: > >> #. ${vm} -vm-display-null -vm-sound-null ${path to image} ${path to > the directory that contains the script}/set-up.st > >> > >> Actual Result: > >> #. it doesn't quit. > >> > >> Expected Result: > >> #. To save the settings and quit. > >> > >> > >> === set-up.st === > >> Author fullName: 'BernardoContreras'. > >> > >> Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: true. > >> ============ > >> > >> Thanks > > > > Make sure that ${path to the directory that contains the script}/ > set-up.st is absolute. You also need .changes and .sources in the right > directory. Is a PharoDebug.log written ? > > > > You could also try to add this to your script (in 1.4) to get more > feedback: > > > > NonInteractiveTranscript stdout install. > > Transcript crShow: 'Starting â¦'. > > > > "â¦" > > > > Sven > > > > > > > > >

Jan. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] CommentReference removed?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Excellent tHanks for your good energy :) On Jan 13, 2012, at 10:08 PM, Guillermo Polito wrote: > Yeap, I've already updated the reference from CommentReference to RGCommetnDefinition :) > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:30 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > > I am trying to load OB in Pharo 1.4, but It seems CommentReference was removed from the image... Shouldn't it go to a deprecated package? > > CommentReference should not work anymore because it was just a hack that we introduced with johan and benjamin > waiting for Ring. > We could reintroduce it but I think that it should not work. > Now we have Ring and we can use it instead. > > > > > Should we reitroduce it with the proper deprecation? > > > > Guille > > >

Jan. 14, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by GastÃ³n Dall' Oglio

Hello Blake. I like discuss about Delphi, but I don't say much more here becouse this is a Smalltalk list :) 2012/1/13 blake <dsblakewatson(a)gmail.com> > Gaston, > > >> This method is for manage the event, not for do something that is really >> part of the model. A Form, no is part of the model. This is similar in VW: >> you coded your event handler method in the AplicationModel, that is like a >> Form in Delphi. >> > > Delphi was a direct reaction to VB, which was eating Borland Pasal's > lunch. MVC was nowhere to be seen. It was all about "look how easy it is to > do [whatever]." Never "look how easy it is to re-use" or "look how easy it > is to maintain". I'm not a Basic basher, but the atmosphere surrounding it > has always been "Computer science is =haaaaarrd=. I just wanna program!" > In general, the user of Delphi do not know how to make good programming with it, becouse Delphi granted them make the things quickly and bad. There are a VERY good book named "The dark side of Delphi...", and the DARK word is for the general unknown about it. Here is (in Spanish sorry): http://www.marteens.com/pdfs/TheDarkSideOfDelphi6.pdf > > You CAN do it right. But here I am (right now!) looking at a guy who's > encoded multi-hundred-line event handlers, that are massive if-then chains, > with code duplicated like crazy between the events. > > hehe, Maybe a sometime when I'm very hurry... but too in Delphi I can use polimorphic, strategy, double dispatch, etc, for avoid use of if-then. And no massive code, just necesary code for handle event, just in VisualWorks :) > Really, the "beauty" of the VB model is that you didn't HAVE to learn OO. > (And, hey, reality bears out that code quality and profit are not strongly > correlated.) > > >> No. The IDE automaticaly define a global variable and create code for >> create and assign a instance, but if you want more instances of same Form >> you can easy declare local variables and create new instance (on initialize >> of other instance or on the fly in accesor methods) and asign to. Same in >> Smalltalk.... And you can delete this automaticaly created code. >> > > Sure. You can do a lot of things right. The underlying weakness is in the > static typing and poorly defined messaging. (I haven't tried FireMonkey > yet, though, it may be different.) > Sure! I completely agree with you. You are deal with reserved words like "virtual, override, dinamic" for achieve dinamic message dispatch across static variable typing. This is very inconveniente for clean code (and has bad psychological consequences in the developers hehe). I do not try the Embarcadero version (and I do not), but them improved some things. For example added use de "Class Helper" for do some similar a trait to a class (but in a context). No only Smalltalk evolves :). FYI see:: http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/34324 > > mmm no. Again, a Form is not part of model, idealy this is for write event >> methods handlers. >> > > I'm glad you're following the ideal. I started using Delphi on the beta in > 1994, and in the past 18 years, I've seen about two instances of the ideal > being properly followed in the real world (that I didn't write). > hehe, again, "the DARK side..." never is very popular. > >> In the Buttons you can use Actions for delegate the handler method of the >> click event. In general, you can assign method of a Form to events of >> controls in another Form, but I do not do often that becouse I only write a >> small code in the event handler in the Form for delegate to some model the >> work (DataModules). >> > > Point is: Buttons then become inflexible pass-throughs. In Smalltalk what > you'd do is allow a component to be swapped for any other component if it > had the right handlers. > In Delphi I can change the component too if they has the right handlers with out major work, but I agree with you in that this in not possibly do it easily that in Smalltalk. But, the class of the variable that hold the current component should be ancestor of both interchangeables components, very inconvenient! > If you could lay out forms in Smalltalk and press a button to create a > lean, deployable version, I'd only use Delphi for CPU intensive tasks. > What'd be optimal is a Smalltalk (with some VA/Delphi influences) in a > browser with an overall approach like that of OPA or maybe Morfik (not > Morphic) so that front and back-end stuff was seamless. Smalltalk was born > for that. > :) Regards. GastÃ³n.

Jan. 14, 2012