January 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Finding all places where a class is instantiated?

by Stefan Marr

Hi: When refactoring code, I frequently try to find all places where a class is instantiated. Is there anything in the image which would work a bit more precise than a search for the class name in the finder? Thanks Stefan -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

Jan. 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Bug in pharo image

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Can you open a bug entry with code showing the problem? Now this is not that we do not care but we are busy taking care of family, team, businessâ¦â¦â¦â¦â¦.. Stef On Jan 14, 2012, at 10:34 PM, Garret Raziel wrote: > Hi, I think I found bug in pharo image. I would post it in bug tracker > but I don't know if it is not duplicate to this bug > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3349&can=1&q=ConnectionQueu…. > If you create ConnectionQueue to listen to some port, send it message > "getConnectionOrNil" and there IS connection, debuger pops out with > "MessageNotUnderstood True>>isConnected". I searched through code and > obviously it is problem in ConnectionQueue>>listenLoop, that sends bad > message to socket (Socket>>waitForConnection:), that returns true or > false, not connection itself. It is works in squeak image. > Should I post it to bugtracker? Or am I wrong? And isn't it duplicate > to that link? > > Thanks, > Jan >

Jan. 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Bug in pharo image

by Max Leske

I see the problem but I wouldn't know who's responsible. ConnectionQueue>>listeLoop contains the following line: newConnection := socket waitForConnectionFor: 10 "newConnection" is later sent the message #isConnected. The problem is that Socket>>waitForConnectionFor: answers "true" and not a connection object. IMHO this is definitely a bug. BTW, the issue on google code mentions a change by Levente that did chang #listenLoop but did *not* introduce the problem as far as I can see. Thanks Garret for reporting. I think this should be fixed. Cheers, Max On 14.01.2012, at 22:34, Garret Raziel wrote: > Hi, I think I found bug in pharo image. I would post it in bug tracker > but I don't know if it is not duplicate to this bug > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3349&can=1&q=ConnectionQueu…. > If you create ConnectionQueue to listen to some port, send it message > "getConnectionOrNil" and there IS connection, debuger pops out with > "MessageNotUnderstood True>>isConnected". I searched through code and > obviously it is problem in ConnectionQueue>>listenLoop, that sends bad > message to socket (Socket>>waitForConnection:), that returns true or > false, not connection itself. It is works in squeak image. > Should I post it to bugtracker? Or am I wrong? And isn't it duplicate > to that link? > > Thanks, > Jan >

Jan. 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Lukas Renggli

> if the Cusp folks can have an Eclipse plugin using swank to talk to an > SBCL image, I see no impediment to doing the same for Smalltalk: swank > provides a common image-side adapter, and to that you can attach your > Eclipse, IntelliJ, emacs... or just a plain old SSH connection. Some Smalltalk folks (GemStone) have that already: http://karpisek.net/gemdev/ Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Jan. 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Frank Shearar

On 15 January 2012 14:08, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > Everything depends on what do you need Smalltalk for. > Pharo fits my need perfectly. The image and having the IDE running in the same memory than the application are the most important assets for what I use Smalltalk everyday. Having the IDE running inside the image you're working on - self-brain-surgery - works fine most of the time. Try debugging the debugger though, or even just the browsers, and you'll quickly discover the perils of working at the meta level. Hence Ducasse et al writing papers on remote images, and "doctor" and "patient" images. frank > It is like saying that a particular place X is the best place to go for holidays... Well... it may depend on whether you prefer trekking or diving. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 15 Jan 2012, at 01:22, Gerry Weaver wrote: > >> Hello All, >> >> First, let me apologize for starting the Delphi thing. I only mentioned it as an example IDE layout. I was not trying to say that the internal workings of it were good, bad, or indifferent. >> >> I have spent some time playing around with things in Pharo. I have been trying to imagine how I would use it on a typical project. I have also been asking myself what it is about the current Smalltalk implementations that are keeping them from being more popular. When I consider the language/environment features that are commonly sited as Smalltalk's strengths, I am surprised that there are so few real world applications out there. I know folks are quick to point to a handful of applications, but the numbers pale in comparison to the mainstream languages. I don't share the same opinion on the productivity of the IDE. It limits my productivity. >> >> DISCLAIMER: I am not trying to be critical of Pharo or Smalltalk in general. I am trying to provide some feedback from a Smalltalk newbie that has worked as a professional programmer for many years. I am not trying to push or force my opinion on anyone. I'm just telling it the way I see it. I apologize if anyone is offended by my words. This is certainly not my intention. >> >> The following are some thoughts and observations about Smalltalk. >> >> 1. I believe Smalltalk's main strength is the language and it's library. >> >> 2. I don't think the image concept works in the current world. I realize there are many folks who would argue this to death, but the fact is that it hinders adoption. I believe it would be better to focus on a robust full featured library and unload the maintenance of the image based environment. I would think of Smalltalk as a Java alternative. >> >> 3. I think Smalltalk should probably forget about the desktop gui completely. There are so many good tools to build gui interfaces these days that it would take a huge effort to match even half of the functionality and performance they provide. Smalltalk should focus on rich web interfaces instead. The gui code and tools are stealing valuable resources from development. >> >> 4. Developing in Smalltalk should be just like any other high level language. It should have a REPL type interface and it would also be nice to have the capability to compile to a native executable. The various Lisp implementations would be a good example. They too came from a similar environment. >> >> 5. It should be possible to embed the Smalltalk VM in other languages (ie; C/C++ etc.) with a nice two-way call interface (think Lua). Â This would allow servers and GUIs written in other languages to leverage Smalltalk for their application logic. >> >> 6. The IDE itself would probably be better written in another language. This would ease platform integration, improve performance, and make for a much richer experience overall. My personal choice for this would be Nokia Qt. There is absolutely no reason that the same browser, workspace, transcript based IDE environment wouldn't be possible. This would also pave the way for IDEs like Eclipse, Netbeans, etc. to provide plugins. >> >> 7. An interim solution to the items above would be to create a server based interface to the Smalltalk image. This would allow an external IDE to interact with the image in the same way that the embedded tools do. >> >> I like the Smalltalk language very much. I think it would make for an awesome embedded scripting language. I also think that it is perfectly suited to hosting the back-end business logic of a large application. I think the best approach for the future is to focus on what Smalltalk would be good at, and not waste valuable resources on things that it is not really the right solution for. >> >> My personal plan for Smalltalk/Pharo is to create an external IDE and a socket based interface in the Pharo image to support it. I also intend to create an image manager server that can manage, monitor, and communicate with multiple images. I have already been working on an IDE for Lisp. Adding Smalltalk support seems logical. >> >> Okay.. I've dug my foxhole and I'm in it with my helmet on. Fire away! >> >> Thanks, >> Gerry >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "GastÃ³n Dall' Oglio" <gaston.dalloglio(a)gmail.com> >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Date: 01/14/12 10:06 >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions) >> >> Hello Blake. >> >> >> >> I like discuss about Delphi, but I don't say much more here becouse this is a Smalltalk list :) >> >> 2012/1/13 blake < dsblakewatson(a)gmail.com> >> Gaston, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This method is for manage the event, not for do something that is really part of the model. A Form, no is part of the model. This is similar in VW: you coded your event handler method in the AplicationModel, that is like a Form in Delphi. >> >> >> >> >> Delphi was a direct reaction to VB, which was eating Borland Pasal's lunch. MVC was nowhere to be seen. It was all about "look how easy it is to do [whatever]." Never "look how easy it is to re-use" or "look how easy it is to maintain". I'm not a Basic basher, but the atmosphere surrounding it has always been "Computer science is =haaaaarrd=. I just wanna program!" >> >> >> >> In general, the user of Delphi do not know how to make good programming with it, becouse Delphi granted them make the things quickly and bad. There are a VERY good book named "The dark side of Delphi...", and the DARK word is for the general unknown about it. Here is (in Spanish sorry): >> http://www.marteens.com/pdfs/TheDarkSideOfDelphi6.pdf >> >> >> >> >> You CAN do it right. But here I am (right now!) looking at a guy who's encoded multi-hundred-line event handlers, that are massive if-then chains, with code duplicated like crazy between the events. >> >> >> >> >> >> hehe, Maybe a sometime when I'm very hurry... but too in Delphi I can use polimorphic, strategy, double dispatch, etc, for avoid use of if-then. And no massive code, just necesary code for handle event, just in VisualWorks :) >> >> >> Really, the "beauty" of the VB model is that you didn't HAVE to learn OO. (And, hey, reality bears out that code quality and profit are not strongly correlated.) >> >> >> >> No. The IDE automaticaly define a global variable and create code for create and assign a instance, but if you want more instances of same Form you can easy declare local variables and create new instance (on initialize of other instance or on the fly in accesor methods) and asign to. Same in Smalltalk.... And you can delete this automaticaly created code. >> >> >> >> >> Sure. You can do a lot of things right. The underlying weakness is in the static typing and poorly defined messaging. (I haven't tried FireMonkey yet, though, it may be different.) >> >> >> >> Sure! I completely agree with you. You are deal with reserved words like "virtual, override, dinamic" for achieve dinamic message dispatch across static variable typing. This is very inconveniente for clean code (and has bad psychological consequences in the developers hehe). >> I do not try the Embarcadero version (and I do not), but them improved some things. For example added use de "Class Helper" for do some similar a trait to a class (but in a context). No only Smalltalk evolves :). FYI see:: >> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/34324 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> mmm no. Again, a Form is not part of model, idealy this is for write event methods handlers. >> >> >> >> >> I'm glad you're following the ideal. I started using Delphi on the beta in 1994, and in the past 18 years, I've seen about two instances of the ideal being properly followed in the real world (that I didn't write). >> >> >> >> hehe, again, "the DARK side..." never is very popular. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> In the Buttons you can use Actions for delegate the handler method of the click event. In general, you can assign method of a Form to events of controls in another Form, but I do not do often that becouse I only write a small code in the event handler in the Form for delegate to some model the work (DataModules). >> >> >> >> >> Point is: Buttons then become inflexible pass-throughs. In Smalltalk what you'd do is allow a component to be swapped for any other component if it had the right handlers. >> >> >> >> In Delphi I can change the component too if they has the right handlers with out major work, but I agree with you in that this in not possibly do it easily that in Smalltalk. But, the class of the variable that hold the current component should be ancestor of both interchangeables components, very inconvenient! >> >> >> >> >> If you could lay out forms in Smalltalk and press a button to create a lean, deployable version, I'd only use Delphi for CPU intensive tasks. What'd be optimal is a Smalltalk (with some VA/Delphi influences) in a browser with an overall approach like that of OPA or maybe Morfik (not Morphic) so that front and back-end stuff was seamless. Smalltalk was born for that. >> >> >> >> >> :) >> >> >> >> Regards. >> GastÃ³n. > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel Â http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > >

Jan. 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Frank Shearar

On 15 January 2012 12:23, Gerry Weaver <gerryw(a)compvia.com> wrote: > Hello All, > > I think I have delivered the message that I intended to. Perhaps this thread > has run it's course. I appreciate y'all taking the time to respond. The > information you provided has been helpful. I have taken another look at the > Smalltalk XY project. It pretty much does everything I need. I would be > picking up around 12k lines of C code to maintain, but the code looks to be > fairly clean and portable. I may start my little project with that. I don't > get the impression there is very much interest in the things that I've > mentioned here. Anyway, it may turn out to be kind of fun to tweak things in > a Smalltalk VM ;-) I suspect that your interests and mine coincide on 2 out of 3 points - I hope that wasn't lost in the noise. In particular: I am very interested in a REPL interface to a running Smalltalk image (hence my interest in Coral). I don't particularly care about a _GUI_ IDE, but if the Cusp folks can have an Eclipse plugin using swank to talk to an SBCL image, I see no impediment to doing the same for Smalltalk: swank provides a common image-side adapter, and to that you can attach your Eclipse, IntelliJ, emacs... or just a plain old SSH connection. frank > Thanks Again, > Gerry >

Jan. 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Method recategorization proposal for TestCase class

by Lukas Renggli

#packageNamesUnderTest is only called from *sunitgui. In fact there should be no such method in TestCase class at all. In my image there is none. Lukas On 15 January 2012 15:36, NicolÃ¡s Paez <nicopaez(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi people, > > I was trying to measure coverage of my code and I realized the method > TestCase class>>packageNamesUnderTest belogs to a category called > *sunitgui, > shouldn't it belong to coverage category? > > I was about opening an issue for this, but I wanted to check it first > because maybe there is a reason I don't understand. > > Regards, > Nico. > blog: nicopaez.wordpress.com -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Jan. 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Andreas Wacknitz

Am 15.01.2012 um 13:55 schrieb Gerry Weaver: > Hi Andreas, > > > >I am not comfortable with the idea to write parts of an application in different languages. > >Typically the disadvantages overweigh the advantages to do so as you would have different languages and systems to master >and update. > >Interoperability with other systems and languages should be easy and Squeak/Pharo are still lacking in this area. This is well >known and hopefully there will be some improvements in the future. > > I guess I would have to disagree with you here. Most of the editors and IDEs of other languages are not maintained by the language proper. There are many editors and IDEs that support many languages in addition to the one they are written in. I think the benefits of using a full featured GUI toolkit to create an IDE would be significant. > You should read the "Cult of the Dead" article on the squeak wiki. > > >Planning to give up on parts like GUI is a bad idea in my opinion. Smalltalk would be even more niche than it is now. I want >to be able to build complete applications without the need to build parts in another language. > > In theory I would agree with you. However, I wasn't able to come up with an application scenario where the Pharo GUI would work. Either the widget set and OS integration are too limited or performance is a problem. For example, the last several applications I have done needed to display PDF files. I have done a little testing with Pharo and I'm sorry to say the results were not very encouraging. The problem I think is one of limited resources. I think that maybe trimming some things would render more progress on the core. Perhaps a good and complete binding to one of the current GUI toolkits would be easier to maintain. You would also get the instant advantage of everything the toolkit had to offer (including performance). A more robust FFI would inevitably be realized as a result. > Pharo's GUI and underlying frameworks are changing. I hope that they will reach a state where they can be used in application areas you (and I) have in mind. > >Especially having the IDE in Smalltalk itself and thus being able to inspect and debug and modify everything is a big advantage >over any IDE in a different language. > > I don't understand why the IDE needs to be in the image/language to do that. While I agree that it wouldn't be a requirement it would at least create more work. And I personally would miss the lively feeling... > > >All Smalltalk implementations have shortcomings in some areas. There are a multitude of reasons for it, be it commercially > >(greater estimated expenses than earnings from it) or just lack of capacity. Smalltalk users are rare these days and the >community is split because of different implementations and interests. For me, Pharo is on a good way to take the Smalltalk >language into a better ecosystem. But for the moment Dolphin Smalltalk is my preferred system because it's relatively cheap >and has only few known bugs. In my eyes it deserves a bigger community and better commercial success. But I guess that's >what every Smalltalker thinks about his preferred Smalltalk system... > > Dolphin seems to be one of the better implementations, but the problem with Dolphin is Windows. All of the projects on my radar right now are moving applications away from Windows to Mac/Linux (mostly Mac). > I have similar intentions or ideas. In my eyes there is no Linux OS but a bunch of Linux distributions that all differ more or less from each other. At the moment I see only Windows and Mac OS as reliable (valuable) environments. Alas Mac OS is lacking decent db support. Beyond Core Data there seem to be a total lack of solutions. I don't have the impression that Pharo (with DBXtalk) is a big advantage here either. And even if so, there are still other areas (like GUI and printing support) where Pharo fails for me. So while I would like to use Pharo I am still using Dolphin on my Mac. Regards, Andreas

Jan. 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Bug in pharo image

by Alexandre Bergel

?? What is your email about? Alexandre On 15 Jan 2012, at 11:51, Garret Raziel wrote: > Anyone cares? -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Jan. 15, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Bug in pharo image

by Garret Raziel

Anyone cares?

Jan. 15, 2012