January 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Denis Kudriashov

I think yes. But our organisation dont want to share smalltalk roots of this products :(. So it is just screenshots 2012/1/18 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > Denis > > could we put your screenshots on our web site? > > Stef > > On Jan 18, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: > > > 2012/1/18 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > > Ah yes another thing which wouuld be nice to have something with one can > > understand without studying it for years and repeated tries. A simple > > way of building somewhat resembling GUI applications in Pharo/Squeak. Ah > > yes flame me that I do appreciate the fantastic Morph world. It's so > > fantastic that just the developers can build a somewhat "usable" > > interface with it. Tell me about the "great" applicatons using Morph > > (anything besides yet another Browser please) > > > > > > > > I has two financial domain applications based on Presenty which works > with Morphic backend. > > I think morphic is the best UI. It is only UI framework which reflect > smalltalk live object enviroment. Any primitive UI part is live object > which you can touch (debug, inspect,...) > > > > But Morphic has many problems in design and implementation part which I > sure will be fixed in future. > > <kassa.png><kioskBankCabinet.png><kioskInputForm.png> > > >

Jan. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] latest build yields stack trace running #cleanUpForProduction

by Henrik Johansen

On Jan 18, 2012, at 12:14 47PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Well....it seems I found the problem. And in fact, it has alredy been solved by Levente in Squeak...I waste so many hours...and the fix was there.. > > So, can you try changing to > > sizeFor: numberOfElements > "Return the minimum capacity of a dictionary that can hold numberOfElements elements. At least 25% of the array must be empty and the return value must be a power of 2." > > ^(numberOfElements * 4 // 3) asLargerPowerOfTwo max: 1 > > > And see if it works? it works hereâ¦ It should not be necessary. The real bug is that Integer >> isPowerOfTwo does not check for the edge case: 0 isPowerOfTwo true A small fix: Integer >> #isPowerOfTwo "Return true if the receiver is an integral power of two." ^ self ~= 0 and: [(self bitAnd: self-1) = 0] Cheers, Henry

Jan. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] latest build yields stack trace running #cleanUpForProduction

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Well....it seems I found the problem. And in fact, it has alredy been solved by Levente in Squeak...I waste so many hours...and the fix was there.. So, can you try changing to sizeFor: numberOfElements "Return the minimum capacity of a dictionary that can hold numberOfElements elements. At least 25% of the array must be empty and the return value must be a power of 2." ^(numberOfElements * 4 // 3) asLargerPowerOfTwo max: 1 And see if it works? it works here... On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:59 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > So is the new fix solving the problems? > > Stef > > On Jan 18, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Yanni Chiu <yanni(a)rogers.com> wrote: > > Rats, that's not the fix. > > > > Even though #cleanUpForRelease ran to completion, running the code: > > > > > > Smalltalk > > allClassesAndTraitsDo: [ :class | > > [ :each | > > each > > removeEmptyCategories; > > sortCategories ] > > value: class organization; > > value: class class > organization ]. > > > > still gives a ByteSymbol DNU for #run:with:in: > > > > I give up for now. > > > > > > > > hahhah thanks Yanni. You see? it is really difficult to reproduce and > understand :( > > thanks for your effort... > > > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Jan. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Misc. newbie questions

by Frank Shearar

On 18 January 2012 10:29, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:28 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 7 January 2012 15:11, Nicolas Cellier >> <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> 2012/1/7 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com>: >>>> On 7 January 2012 14:14, Nicolas Cellier >>>> <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> 2012/1/6 Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>> On 6 January 2012 11:20, Peter Hugosson-Miller <oldmanlink(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On 6 jan 2012, at 06:41, "Gerry Weaver" <gerryw(a)compvia.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. There appear to be some tool choices in the Pharo image. I would like to >>>>>>> be able to create a class and it's methods in an editor in one go. I like >>>>>>> being able to see all of the class code at once. Is there a way to do this? >>>>>>> Â I just want to be able to type it all in and accept (evaluate?) all at >>>>>>> once. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is an interesting question to me personally. After 15 years of working >>>>>>> exclusively in Smalltalk I've recently been forced to start programming in >>>>>>> Java, where the source code is always (as far as I know) arranged in the way >>>>>>> you describe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This organization just emphasizes the dead and compiled nature of Java (and >>>>>>> similar languages), compared to the living objects of Smalltalk, where even >>>>>>> methods are objects, created by sending messages to other objects. Source >>>>>>> code is relegated to being a mere artifact, which can be saved and organized >>>>>>> in any way one wishes, and preferably never shows its ugly face to the coder >>>>>>> :-p >>>>>> >>>>>> Which of course is no argument why Smalltalk code could not be >>>>>> displayed in a more programmer friendly way as a continuous block of >>>>>> text. There is no technical reason why source ranges in text box >>>>>> couldn't correspond to life method objects. Compared to other >>>>>> languages it is extremely tedious in Smalltalk to get an overview over >>>>>> a project, a package, or even a single class or to navigate between >>>>>> entities. >>>>>> >>>>>>> And yes, I really *really* miss a good, object oriented class browser! >>>>>> >>>>>> Eclipse is pretty good, especially with the Java Browsing Perspective. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lukas >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As soon as you would display the code for many methods in a single text pane, >>>>> you will find file-based-educated people making large refactorings in >>>>> a single pass... >>>>> Imagine this leads to many syntax errors, they will soon be willing to >>>>> save their changes for a later rework... >>>>> This would be a complete change in programming flow and if we really >>>>> want to support this, we would have to: >>>>> - add a way to save syntactically incorrect code >>>>> - let IDE tools work on partially correct code (syntax highlighting, >>>>> navigation, etc...) >>>>> >>>>> IMHO, these features add a lot of complexity... Is it really worth? >>>>> I like the discipline of focusing on a single method until it is at >>>>> least syntactically correct. >>>> >>>> The Pharo community has extremely limited resources so it seems quite >>>> fair to me for Pharo to say "yes, but it's up to you because we have >>>> no time". It _is_ very useful to be able to see and edit long reams of >>>> text: my favourite text editor's been beaten on since the late 70s. It >>>> is now very, very good at manipulating text, in multiple programming >>>> languages, in multiple human languages, on many platforms. That I >>>> can't use this text editor to manipulate a textual representation of >>>> my favourite language is extremely annoying! >>>> >>>> frank >>> >>> Yeah, but my take was that re-inventing a very narrow subset of these >>> 40 years old text editors in Smalltalk would likely be a failure... >>> (or a big project) >> >> It would be a fairlly big piece of work although we do have lots of >> pieces lying around: >> * Coral's working on a scripting/REPL-like interface, >> * the Common Lisp community has been using SLIME to provide a REPL to >> a running image for years while also using files to store their code, >> * we have Gitocello (which also translates Squeak/Pharo to gst), >> * we have LanguageBoxes (*) allowing us to permit craziness like >> storing code outside the image in one format without affecting the >> entire language (letting us store Smalltalk code in something other >> than chunk format) >> >> (*) watch this space: I'm making progress on breaking up the Helvetia >> image into a bootstrappable bunch of packages > > Did you commit your code somewhere ? Not yet: what I have at the moment is a Squeak Installer script to bootstrap a vanilla 4.3 image up to the point where I can start loading Cutie-Helvetia, the first of the LanguageBoxes packages, dependency-wise, together with a few shims necessary to add some Pharo-specific bits to Squeak. Those shims are as yet unpublished, just because I haven't taken the time to put them anywhere. It's still very much in hack form, but you can see what I have so far at https://gist.github.com/1632449. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to load Cutie-Helvetia: it occurred to me late last night that Monticello can't load the non-Smalltalk methods because it's trying to use the image's compiler rather than the class-specific parser. I don't yet have a solution: I need the class-side methods compiled and loaded before I can try compile the instance-side methods, and right now Monticello compiles everything before installing anything. I guess a custom loader's what I need. frank > > Regards, > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam > Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) > http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://doesnotunderstand.org/ >

Jan. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] latest build yields stack trace running #cleanUpForProduction

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

So is the new fix solving the problems? Stef On Jan 18, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Yanni Chiu <yanni(a)rogers.com> wrote: > Rats, that's not the fix. > > Even though #cleanUpForRelease ran to completion, running the code: > > > Smalltalk > allClassesAndTraitsDo: [ :class | > [ :each | > each > removeEmptyCategories; > sortCategories ] > value: class organization; > value: class class organization ]. > > still gives a ByteSymbol DNU for #run:with:in: > > I give up for now. > > > > hahhah thanks Yanni. You see? it is really difficult to reproduce and understand :( > thanks for your effort... > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Jan. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] :) SIG talks about Pharo

by Serge Stinckwich

Quite old : may 2010. We should continue talking about Smalltalk & Pharo on twitter ;-) On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:51 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > http://www.sig.eu/en/Research/Twilp > > > Stef > -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

Jan. 18, 2012

[Pharo-project] :) SIG talks about Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> http://www.sig.eu/en/Research/Twilp Stef

Jan. 18, 2012

[Pharo-project] [update 1.4] #14285

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

14285 ----- - Issue 5178: Unload RB packages Stef

Jan. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Denis could we put your screenshots on our web site? Stef On Jan 18, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: > 2012/1/18 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > Ah yes another thing which wouuld be nice to have something with one can > understand without studying it for years and repeated tries. A simple > way of building somewhat resembling GUI applications in Pharo/Squeak. Ah > yes flame me that I do appreciate the fantastic Morph world. It's so > fantastic that just the developers can build a somewhat "usable" > interface with it. Tell me about the "great" applicatons using Morph > (anything besides yet another Browser please) > > > > I has two financial domain applications based on Presenty which works with Morphic backend. > I think morphic is the best UI. It is only UI framework which reflect smalltalk live object enviroment. Any primitive UI part is live object which you can touch (debug, inspect,...) > > But Morphic has many problems in design and implementation part which I sure will be fixed in future. > <kassa.png><kioskBankCabinet.png><kioskInputForm.png>

Jan. 18, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Fernando Olivero

Dennis, your screenshots are awesome, hope remains for a direct manipulation framework such as Morphic to beet lesser and boring standard UI WIDGETS frameworks. And by the way, Morphic isnt ours..it comes from a groundbreaking object-focused environment called SELF. Fernando On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 17 January 2012 06:34, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I have limited rights to be heard here because I have been a part of the >> Squeak/Pharo community for a long time. I have less rights than others >> because I haven't contributed anything of consequence. Others who have been >> here far less time but have contributed a lot more, have greater rights. >> > I don't think there should be any "rights" related to level of contribution. > But it is true, you are much likely will be heard and your ideas taken > into account, if you will show others your dedication. > And of course a simplest way of showing it is to contribute :) > >> Just my opinions. But I think that they are reasonably founded. I spend a >> lot more time with people than programming. >> >> Jimmie >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Jan. 18, 2012