January 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Best way for FFI in Pharo

by Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras

see https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/NativeBoost/ On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:31 PM, drush66 <davorin.rusevljan(a)gmail.com>wrote: > > > Are there prebuilt VM-s with NB? > > ----- > http://www.cloud208.com/ > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Best-way-for-FFI-in-Pharo-tp4275467p4313534.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Jan. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Best way for FFI in Pharo

by drush66

So, am I getting this right: if I need callbacks, then I need NativeBoost? Can those callbacks be used in situations where it is necessary to deliver very high number of them quickly and efficiently? I am looking at libev - event library used to deliver high I/O traffic through evented interface, and it depends heavily on callbacks to deliver each event. Are there prebuilt VM-s with NB? ----- http://www.cloud208.com/ -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Best-way-for-FFI-in-Pharo-tp4275467p4313534.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Which COG VM?

by Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras

try Smalltalk vm version On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Andrew P. Black <black(a)cs.pdx.edu> wrote: > Second, how can I find out what version of COG I'm running? > > Andrew > > > > >

Jan. 20, 2012

[Pharo-project] Which COG VM?

by Andrew P. Black

The latest COG VM, pointed to from the Pharo-project download page, CogVM-*-13307.zip, seems to be a little unstable. Many students have been reporting that it just hangs while doing nothing more than editing (not saving) text, and I have seen long hangs while doing trivial things â these look to me like synchronization bugs. The COG that I used about a year ago (JannâMarch 2011 timeframe), in contrast, seemed rock solid, although it might have been slower. I have two questions. First, where can I find an archive of PRE_BUILT VMs. I don't want to give my students (or myself) the task of building a VM from scratch. Second, how can I find out what version of COG I'm running? SmalltalkImage current versionLabel doesn't work. SmalltalkImage current buildDate gives me a date, but how does that relate to the version numbers that I see in on the COG web site? Thanks. I want my students to have a good starting experience with Pharo, and they are not. They are messing around trying to retrieve source from hosed images :-( Andrew

Jan. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Frank Shearar

On 20 January 2012 03:37, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 1/17/2012 2:57 PM, Frank Shearar wrote: >> >> Â Emacs + SLIME = image-based, interactive development. As image-based >> as you'd like, at least. Eclipse + Cusp = image-based development: >> you're connecting to a running Common Lisp image, which you can >> snapshot and restore any time you like (just like choosing to work in >> a built image or in a persistent one). IDE and "living world" are >> orthogonal concerns. > > > Ok. I have no experience in this realm. It may be exactly as you say. But > within the context of this discussion and this discussion occurring in a > Smalltalk forum I want to bring up a common Smalltalk experience. > > One thing that I dearly love in my Pharo environment is this. > > I have multiple browser windows open with code I am viewing or editing. > I have one or more workspaces open with code and objects that I am > experimenting with or exploring their values to learn. > > I save my image, and open back up and all of that is there ready for me to > continue. I can do this with the image on a flash drive, the local drive or > on a network. > > With this Emacs + SLIME can I do some thing similar? > Honest question, honest comparison? I suspect the answer, but I do not > factually know it. > > When I restore an Emacs+SLIME image. Do I have available the editing and the > REPL (or workspace like element) exactly as I left it. Cursors in the > original location. Workspace like elements with the objects available for > exploration. > > If as I suspect the answer is no. Then we are not exactly talking about the > same things. Maybe similar or close, but not the same. However, I am happy > to agree that LISPs are worlds ahead of most other languages in this regard. If one's using Emacs + SLIME, one of course doesn't have any Browsers or Workspaces or indeed any UI elements, so in a sense, no, we're not comparing the same things. If you saved your image, the image state would remain - running processes and so on - but of course Emacs's state - windows open and the like - would vanish. I won't dispute the value of the strong integration between IDE and environment. I certainly think it's perfectly sane for you to value it so highly! What I find inconvenient about the current work is * I have to manage windows manually * I can see only a single method at a time, so can't use visual cues or keyboard-only navigation to jump around It's not even impossible to do the above in Pharo. Laurent's already working on the first step, and the old Whisker Browser could display many methods at once. The reasons why I want something like Emacs + SLIME for Smalltalk are * Emacs is very good at handling text, and I wouldn't have to learn yet another editor's bindings. (I've already paid this price, but I'm thinking of new people.) * It's much easier on the network to connect my Emacs to a remote running image than having to VNC to something. Plus it's one less application open. * I don't want the Smalltalk community to waste its precious resources reinventing tools that are perfectly good out of some notion that Smalltalk is a unique, special snowflake, and we simply cannot make use of standard tools. > For me this is one simple value of the IDE in the image and being one of the > many live objects I am editing. One of the things that was seen as having no > value in this discussion. I see working in the image as both a blessing and a curse: it's a blessing because you can work rapidly and interact with your objects. It's a curse because there's nothing stopping you from making something that cannot be replicated/reproduced. In the large, writing Metacello specs and running them in a CI environment will tend to keep you honest. frank > And as I stated, if the proposer sees no value in this. Fine, do what works > for you. > > Jimmie > >

Jan. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Jimmie Houchin

On 1/18/2012 12:19 AM, Friedrich Dominicus wrote: > Jimmie Houchin<jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> writes: > >> I am all for improving our editing experience. But I want it in my >> image and not in Emacs/vi. I would rather see our world improved than >> to see it require an external editor which sees code as text, not >> objects, where different external editors have differing features. > Well I suggest then to start with adding an Editor which deserves that > name. By all means the editors in any Smalltalk are poor. And now that > you mention Emacs. There is nothing comparable to this Editor for Text > editing in any Smalltalk world-wide. So yes you an live within the live > "objects!" but you have to leave them whenever you want to write > something more but 5 lines of code. I will not state that our editors are perfect. But I have use Emacs. It is horribly ugly. It doesn't know anything more about code than any other editor that does not have the code running. I may be wrong. I am okay with being proved wrong. Ugly is a point I would like to make. It is not nearly as attractive as most modern editors. But the community values other things and does not find a priority to improve appearance simply for the reason of appearance. Just like in Pharo there are priorities within the community which are higher or lower than those from the outside might place them based on their values. And as in most open source communities the priority that is getting the work is the one that the worker has prioritized higher. Ultimately it is the people doing the work whose values are count. >> And yes, I am thoroughly pro Pharo. Do I believe there are >> deficiencies. Yes. I just don't believe the GUI being non-standard, >> the image, and the editor being in the image are not among them. And I >> don't believe that challenges to those things should go unchallenged >> and accepted just because somebody > Ah yes another thing which would be nice to have something with one can > understand without studying it for years and repeated tries. A simple > way of building somewhat resembling GUI applications in Pharo/Squeak. Ah > yes flame me that I do appreciate the fantastic Morph world. It's so > fantastic that just the developers can build a somewhat "usable" > interface with it. Tell me about the "great" applications using Morph > (anything besides yet another Browser please) This I don't understand. I am far from a computer science expert. I am not a professional programmer. I am simply a business man who deals with people all day long for a living. But I find Squeak/Pharo/Smalltalk the most friendly environment for doing thing that I have found. This may be because I have never brought into the Smalltalk world a host of preconceptions of what editor I required, or how programming was supposed to be. And I am far from being an expert Smalltalker or know all of the little inside details that make everything run. I am happy to have an Igor, Stef, Elliot, Levente, etc. to handle all of the things I don't understand. And I am happy to ask question on how to accomplish the things I don't understand but need to do. >> And yes, I am just as opinionated about my perceptions of the >> deficiencies of Python, Clojure, Ruby, Eclipse, Netbeans, ... >> Or my frustrations when using them. >> I just don't go into those communities expecting them to shape their >> favorite tool to my vision. I rather try to use their tools and >> attempt to learn their values and ways, assuming they have reason and >> purpose for their language and tools. > Well at least you get an Editor with Eclipse and Netbeans. But yeah we > don't need not stinking Editor. But an editor isn't the whole picture. It is a part. As the developer of my applications I (as does anyone else) get to choose the tools used to develop the app. I value the integration of the IDE with the language and environment. You value the independence of the IDE from the language and vm/repl/interpreter/... more than I do. >> The biggest problem is people visiting a community and believing they >> have the right to speak into that community. If you want that right, >> spend some time here. Develop community relations. Then in time you >> earn that right to be heard. > > He has all the right to write what he wants. You have to cope with that, > you can agree or disagree. That's up to you but you are not the ape at > the door to prohibit his entry. And I never said that he didn't. See below. I never prohibited anybody's entrance or limited what they said. I just didn't let it go unchallenged as if I or this community agreed with what was said and believed it was true. He gave his opinion. I gave mine. Fine, not a problem. Whatever value either opinion has, is able to survive a healthy discussion. Either whole or in part. >> I have limited rights to be heard here because I have been a part of >> the Squeak/Pharo community for a long time. I have less rights than >> others because I haven't contributed anything of consequence. Others >> who have been here far less time but have contributed a lot more, have >> greater rights. > > This is poor attitude. Just imagine Denis Ritchie would come here, with > no experience of Smalltalk at all. Wouldn't he have the right to state > his opinion? Ok. You are misunderstanding me here. My apologies for not being more clear. Yes, anybody can speak and offer their opinion. You are. I am. Others did. But speaking does not mean it is received. This is all about the human dynamic and community dynamics. A person's ideas are received by either the merit of the ideas and their agreement with the communities goals, ideals or philosophies. Or if they challenge the communities goals, ideals or philosophies by the authority or credibility of the proposer to speak into the community based upon that persons relationship to the community. But the ideas simply because they are offered doesn't mean they are accepted and don't go through some discussion and vetting. Every community (or person) has core values and philosophies. How well a person is received is determined by their ability to defend their ideas *and/or* their authority/respect/relationship to the community. Stef/Guido/Larry/(insert favorite benevolent dictator or committee)/... can overrule anyone within their communities without any defense other than who they are. Their opinions carry weight beyond any defense of argument. When they exercise this authority, it doesn't mean their arguments are without merit. Just that a consensus was not found. And the community accepts it. Opinions were offered. Discussion ensued. That's all. Jimmie

Jan. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)

by Jimmie Houchin

On 1/17/2012 2:57 PM, Frank Shearar wrote: > Emacs + SLIME = image-based, interactive development. As image-based > as you'd like, at least. Eclipse + Cusp = image-based development: > you're connecting to a running Common Lisp image, which you can > snapshot and restore any time you like (just like choosing to work in > a built image or in a persistent one). IDE and "living world" are > orthogonal concerns. Ok. I have no experience in this realm. It may be exactly as you say. But within the context of this discussion and this discussion occurring in a Smalltalk forum I want to bring up a common Smalltalk experience. One thing that I dearly love in my Pharo environment is this. I have multiple browser windows open with code I am viewing or editing. I have one or more workspaces open with code and objects that I am experimenting with or exploring their values to learn. I save my image, and open back up and all of that is there ready for me to continue. I can do this with the image on a flash drive, the local drive or on a network. With this Emacs + SLIME can I do some thing similar? Honest question, honest comparison? I suspect the answer, but I do not factually know it. When I restore an Emacs+SLIME image. Do I have available the editing and the REPL (or workspace like element) exactly as I left it. Cursors in the original location. Workspace like elements with the objects available for exploration. If as I suspect the answer is no. Then we are not exactly talking about the same things. Maybe similar or close, but not the same. However, I am happy to agree that LISPs are worlds ahead of most other languages in this regard. For me this is one simple value of the IDE in the image and being one of the many live objects I am editing. One of the things that was seen as having no value in this discussion. And as I stated, if the proposer sees no value in this. Fine, do what works for you. Jimmie

Jan. 20, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Saga of trying to integrate IDE with OpenGL continuesRe:

by Lawson English

Apparently there was a glError that I wasn't catching, so the disk address issue has gone away: the Baloon3D plugin was logging errors I didn't catch. However, I'm not sure how to efficiently blit GUI updates to the gl texture, so suggestions appreciated. Looking at the Squeak3D.log file, it seems to me that Baloon3D already has access to all the values that Igor is using to setup his NBOpenGL and GLCanvas packages. Would it be better to leverage that as a cross-platform initialization for OpenGL instead of another plugin? From Squeak3D log: ### Attempting to find hardware renderer x: 0 y: 0 w: 638 h: 475 Selected pixel format: AGL_RENDERER_ID : 0x1021A02 AGL_OFFSCREEN : GL_FALSE AGL_FULLSCREEN : GL_FALSE AGL_WINDOW : GL_TRUE AGL_ACCELERATED : GL_TRUE AGL_ROBUST : GL_FALSE AGL_BACKING_STORE : GL_FALSE AGL_MP_SAFE : GL_TRUE AGL_COMPLIANT : GL_TRUE AGL_MULTISCREEN : GL_TRUE AGL_BUFFER_SIZE : 32 AGL_LEVEL : 0 AGL_PIXEL_SIZE : 32 AGL_DEPTH_SIZE : 24 AGL_STENCIL_SIZE : 8 AGL_3_BIT AGL_AUX_BUFFERS : 0 OpenGL vendor: ATI Technologies Inc. OpenGL renderer: ATI Radeon HD 2600 OpenGL Engine OpenGL version: 2.1 ATI-1.6.36 OpenGL extensions: GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_ARB_vertex_program GL_ARB_vertex_blend GL_ARB_window_pos GL_ARB_shader_objects GL_ARB_vertex_shader GL_ARB_shading_language_100 GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters GL_EXT_geometry_shader4 GL_EXT_transform_feedback GL_APPLE_client_storage GL_APPLE_specular_vector GL_APPLE_transform_hint GL_APPLE_packed_pixels GL_APPLE_fence GL_APPLE_vertex_array_object GL_APPLE_vertex_program_evaluators GL_APPLE_element_array GL_APPLE_flush_render GL_APPLE_aux_depth_stencil GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_NV_light_max_exponent GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_ARB_imaging GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_multisample GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_shadow GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_shadow_ambient GL_ARB_fragment_program GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow GL_ARB_fragment_shader GL_ARB_occlusion_query GL_ARB_point_sprite GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object GL_ARB_draw_buffers GL_ARB_shader_texture_lod GL_ARB_color_buffer_float GL_ARB_half_float_vertex GL_ARB_texture_rg GL_ARB_texture_compression_rgtc GL_ARB_framebuffer_object GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_EXT_draw_buffers2 GL_EXT_framebuffer_object GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample GL_EXT_texture_rectangle GL_ARB_texture_rectangle GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_blend_func_separate GL_EXT_shadow_funcs GL_EXT_stencil_two_side GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_compression_dxt1 GL_EXT_texture_sRGB GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil GL_EXT_bindable_uniform GL_EXT_texture_integer GL_EXT_gpu_shader4 GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB GL_EXT_provoking_vertex GL_APPLE_flush_buffer_range GL_APPLE_ycbcr_422 GL_APPLE_rgb_422 GL_APPLE_vertex_array_range GL_APPLE_texture_range GL_APPLE_float_pixels GL_ATI_texture_float GL_ARB_texture_float GL_ARB_half_float_pixel GL_APPLE_pixel_buffer GL_APPLE_object_purgeable GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_fog_distance GL_NV_conditional_render GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once GL_ATI_blend_equation_separate GL_ATI_blend_weighted_minmax GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3 GL_ATI_separate_stencil GL_ATI_texture_compression_3dc GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_SGI_color_matrix GL_EXT_texture_array GL_EXT_vertex_array_bgra GL_ARB_instanced_arrays GL_ARB_depth_buffer_float GL_EXT_packed_float GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent ### Renderer created! (id = 0) On 1/18/12 1:31 PM, Lawson English wrote: > sigh, I'm getting disk access constantly when my little GUI opengl > thingie runs. The max FPS is 10ish. > Package is: OpenGL-Tutorial-LDE.32 > in monticello repository: > 'http://croquet-src-01.oit.duke.edu:8886/Contributions' > > > suggestions? > > > Thanks. > > L. > > >

Jan. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Swazoo + openID

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

Hi Bernat, This is what is interesting me too, actually two things, OpenID 2.0 and OAuth 2.0, on top of Swazoo or at least Sport to be portable. I also planned to look at CloudFork first ... Best regards Janko S, Bernat Romagosa piÅ¡e: > Hi list, > > We need to log a user into an application (not a Seaside app) using > their google account, and we are using Swazoo as a server. It must be > their google account because we need to retrieve and modify stuff stored > in their google world (Blogger, Calendar, etc). > > We've taken a look at CloudFork, but it seems to be tied to Seaside and > looks very complicated to use... are there any simpler alternatives? > > I guess the ideal solution would be to have a Swazoo extension that > handled the authentication, is that right? > > Thanks! > > -- > Bernat Romagosa. -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

Jan. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] fs filesystem fslocator

by Francois Stephany

I always directly reference FSLocator. Of course I can refactor my code if you come with a better solution than a FSLocator almost identical than FSReference... On 19/01/12 08:01, Camillo Bruni wrote: > On 2012-01-19, at 14:21, Henrik Johansen wrote: >> On Jan 19, 2012, at 2:05 41PM, Camillo Bruni wrote: >>> I am currently doing a small refactoring of FSFilesystem. >>> Does anybody need explicitly FSLocator? >>> >>> Otherwise I'd vouch for removing it.. >>> >>> >>> best >>> cami >>> >> Why? >> >> Seems kinda nice to me to be able to specify locations relative to image/vm/desktop etc without having to worry about those locations changing when you load the image on a different platform. > > Sure sure, I wouldn't remove the functionality. But I would rather like to introduce a custom PathType to reflect named paths. > > I just feel uncomfortable with FSLocator being almost the same as an FSReference but they're not completely interchangeable. > > cami -- http://tulipemoutarde.be BE: +32 (0)65 709 131 CA: +1 778 558 3225

Jan. 19, 2012