January 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Morpheas , bringing Morphic to Opengl (3d GUIs)

by Igor Stasenko

On 31 January 2012 17:47, Lawson English <lenglish5(a)cox.net> wrote: > On 1/31/12 9:03 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >> On 31 January 2012 14:57, dimitris chloupis<thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> Â wrote: >> [...] >> >> Is there any documentation anywhere even partial for NBOpenGL that I can >> use >> ? (google does not return anything ) >> >> since it is a direct binding to opengl, do not expect any documentation on >> it. >> it is assumed that if you know opengl, you should be capable of doing >> the rest by yourself :) >> >> maybe context handling/initialization part needs some documenting.. >> but not that much. >> since using FFI you can directly interact with OS and other OS-specific >> stuff, >> anyone could actually do it in own whay (an opengl context creation), >> while then use the NBOpenGL for rendering. >> > Well, there are a few quirks with using it in Morphs that are specific to > Squeak and Pharo, and there are differences between Squeak AND Pharo that > one needs to know about if one wants the best possible framerate for each, > etc. > not required part for opengl bindings to function. > Also, how to fully integrate the World morph so that it renders into an > OpenGL window as efficiently as possible is still not totally clear to me, > even after your last email... > Right, but i'd like to stress, that NBOpenGL is a bindings to OpenGL and nothing more. Making a full Morphic world to be displayed in opengl context or vise versus is not of its concern, because it is actually is up to you how you gonna use it. > But those are things that will get resolved as time goes on and can be put > into class examples and a help manual... > yes, in examples and demos, like one i did. But i'm not going to make it "standard" designating the only way how it could be used. You know, there's alot of applications for opengl. One might want to use for a fullscreen rendering , and render something completely irrelevant to morphic, other can use it for offscreen rendering, or even for doing math on GPU. > And of course, into one or more video tutorials. ;-) > > Lawson > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] pharo vision

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jan 31, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > Stef, > > I've sent some markup directly, some additional ideas - perhaps only for later and/or more of a library than core functionality. > > Improved printing subsystem - by which I mean PDF output. > Business proposition: Without good PDFs many contemporary business practices are curtailed. For example, multi-page reporting charts being emailed to external clients. Are you aware of the open-source library of Christian Haider? > > Running multiple images on one VM with copy-on-write shared memory. > Business proposition: To allow more images (owned by different clients) to be run (presumably) with less resources on resource limited web server platforms. Yes we were thinking about that in Objectspaces but Gwenael never delivered (nor talk to us for real during 3 years - his disaster). > > cheers, Ben >

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Enthousiasm is the main currency among developers

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > a) Crashes... > b) Bugs in basic functionality: Morphic as well as in other places > c) The User Guide is not in synch with the current stable Pharo.. in simple images of browsers.. > > Very very basic/ simple stuff.. but I realized more sharply that not all are equal in comprehension and guess or accept these to dig their heel in further and experience the joy inside.. they just balk and wonder if Pharo is even half as good as VW/ VA.. where I believe it is just pure uncut diamond inside.. unpolished.. but work is going on from the craftsmen.. every day.. to get there.. > > But I vote for the basic principle, work hard to get the very basic kernel, a stable system that is guaranteed not to crash and work absolutely predictably.. not throw in stuff which half works even like the debugger stuff currently, which to a beginner is quite confusing when steps out of line. guys just contribute! I mean for real because emails do not count! Stef

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Which COG VM?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

One by one this is the only way to move. >> >> I think somebody that maintains the website needs to replace the VM that is linked on the download page with the latest VM built in Jenkins. >> >> I had the same issues but when I switched to the latest built on Jenkins, I had no issues anymore. >> > > We need to once and for all finish to have a *complete* continous integration setup... we really should push towards that, else the on-click > will be always out of date. > > Now there are lots of tiny trivial unimportant steps to go there that somehow never get done... > > I have put this on my TODO list, but it will take a while, sadly. > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > >

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] Pharo Morphic View Application Framework

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jan 31, 2012, at 1:23 PM, S Krish wrote: > Sure I will review this pdf.. and come back on this..how well should > integrate the specs part.. but Spec is a spec based UI builder. > The framework though is based on the spec and extensibly on direct > composition and does a little more towards building a scalable/ > flexible framework that incorporates in one simpler hierarchy all that > goes into a standard large application creation.. Ok but did you ***read*** what benjamin said: he iterated on it and now it is a good basis to build support for a lot of widgets. Have a look at his document. It would be good to avoid to have several frameworks doing the same. For example I would like to have more tests. The prototype part is open. We did not think much about it. > > How is the Presenty work supposed to work along with this..? > > > On 1/31/12, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> did you see what benjamin is doing with Spec. >> Because you should join effort >> >> >

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Another video tutorial

by Ben Coman

Lawson English wrote: > > Latest squeak tutorial. Connectors how-to: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1LveflchAU > > as an aside, it seems to me that Connectors should be ported back to > Pharo, because it can be very useful I am finding. > > Lawson > > There is http://www.squeaksource.com/MinimalConnectors.html used by http://www.squeaksource.com/smallUML.html I just happened to have found this yesterday. The following worked for me in Pharo-1.3-13315... Gofer it squeaksource: 'smallUML'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSmallUML'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSmallUML) project latestVersion load. DiagramDrawingDocumentation openDiagramBrowser

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Morpheas , bringing Morphic to Opengl (3d GUIs)

by Lawson English

On 1/31/12 9:03 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 31 January 2012 14:57, dimitris chloupis<thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > [...] > Is there any documentation anywhere even partial for NBOpenGL that I can use > ? (google does not return anything ) > > since it is a direct binding to opengl, do not expect any documentation on it. > it is assumed that if you know opengl, you should be capable of doing > the rest by yourself :) > > maybe context handling/initialization part needs some documenting.. > but not that much. > since using FFI you can directly interact with OS and other OS-specific stuff, > anyone could actually do it in own whay (an opengl context creation), > while then use the NBOpenGL for rendering. > Well, there are a few quirks with using it in Morphs that are specific to Squeak and Pharo, and there are differences between Squeak AND Pharo that one needs to know about if one wants the best possible framerate for each, etc. Also, how to fully integrate the World morph so that it renders into an OpenGL window as efficiently as possible is still not totally clear to me, even after your last email... But those are things that will get resolved as time goes on and can be put into class examples and a help manual... And of course, into one or more video tutorials. ;-) Lawson

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, Deal. Please have a look at my alternate steams proposal - the added #nexMany:, #nextOne, etc. I have given up on making streams robust with existing protocol, so adding some methods is the answer. When a stream hits the end, it needs to squawk - the added methods will help me help you, and (IMHO) are our most likely course forward. I use LOTS of streams, so it's a Big Deal(TM). But please check the docs and see what you think. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:33 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On 31 January 2012 17:21, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > Search. I've said it for YEARS now - I've been VERY CLEAR ON THIS. Maybe I'm too clear?? Yes, I'm mad, but not enough to hurt Smalltalk, and not really at you. > > How about an electronic handshake and some movement toward making FFI work? > i am not offended. and of course i will continue my work towards making FFI work regardless of having enemies around or not, because i also need it for myself :) so, lets keep moving.. and cooperate on fields we can. > Bill > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by Igor Stasenko

On 31 January 2012 17:21, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > Search. Â I've said it for YEARS now - I've been VERY CLEAR ON THIS. Â Maybe I'm too clear?? Â Yes, I'm mad, but not enough to hurt Smalltalk, and not really at you. > > How about an electronic handshake and some movement toward making FFI work? > i am not offended. and of course i will continue my work towards making FFI work regardless of having enemies around or not, because i also need it for myself :) so, lets keep moving.. and cooperate on fields we can. > Bill > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, Cooling off already.... The tool is classified until I can figure out how to get some academic credit for it. Maybe Stef can help me understand what it is and how to write it up. I'll do the work, but I need guidance since it is far afield (for me). Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:21 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found Sig, Search. I've said it for YEARS now - I've been VERY CLEAR ON THIS. Maybe I'm too clear?? Yes, I'm mad, but not enough to hurt Smalltalk, and not really at you. How about an electronic handshake and some movement toward making FFI work? Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:14 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On 31 January 2012 17:01, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > I'm tired of reading that I'm asking people to do work FOR ME. I am "asking" for things that will allow me to do things for YOU. Want the attached in useful form? Maybe you don't - numerical analysis is a "home" to me. ***I**** have what I need - YOU don't. But you never said something like that before, i.e. "when you will have *that*, i can release/improve *this* so everyone can benefit". Unless you say what are you working on and what/why you need something , how else we can know? > I'm done with this bickering over semantics and being told how I'm leaning on others. When callbacks are supported, I will use them to turn the attached (and more, plus >100 stucture defs) into something that YOU can use and make it available for YOU. Until then, I don't have the time to waste on a half-baked solution with C callbacks that will be discarded once Spock arrives. > > BTW, some Gnuplot and PLplot bindings are in a similar situation. Yours *when* the infrastructure is in place. Last I'm going to say on this. I will NOT change things twice - too damn much work. > do you have some tool for generating these bindings? because if not, then indeed its too much work to do manually. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Jan. 31, 2012