January 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Misc. newbie questions

by Peter Hugosson-Miller

On 6 jan 2012, at 06:41, "Gerry Weaver" <gerryw(a)compvia.com> wrote: > 2. There appear to be some tool choices in the Pharo image. I would like to be able to create a class and it's methods in an editor in one go. I like being able to see all of the class code at once. Is there a way to do this? I just want to be able to type it all in and accept (evaluate?) all at once. This is an interesting question to me personally. After 15 years of working exclusively in Smalltalk I've recently been forced to start programming in Java, where the source code is always (as far as I know) arranged in the way you describe. This organization just emphasizes the dead and compiled nature of Java (and similar languages), compared to the living objects of Smalltalk, where even methods are objects, created by sending messages to other objects. Source code is relegated to being a mere artifact, which can be saved and organized in any way one wishes, and preferably never shows its ugly face to the coder :-p So my advice is, count yourself lucky that you have the chance to enter the world of real, pure, objects. Go with the flow, let your old idioms and practices go, and have fun! My Smalltalk years were the best time in my professional life, and I am quite envious of anyone that still gets to use Smalltalk professionally. And yes, I really *really* miss a good, object oriented class browser! -- Cheers, Peter

Jan. 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [etoys-dev] OpenGL integerated wtih Squeak IDE

by David Corking

Lawson English wrote: > This is a very poor attempt to do what Matt Fulmer did with OpenCobalt: > integrate overlapping Morphic windows with OpenGL. This is a really interesting demo. Do you have a public repository of your code? > Time to revive/revitalize Balloon3D, perhaps? Whatever happened to 3D > Morphic? Also, Andreas Raab built an interesting proof of concept for Etoys in Croquet with his Tweak UI, before he moved to Telepace. I think the scripting code was dropped from OpenCobalt (does it work in OpenQwaq?) I guess you and others that understand the big picture could recommend the most promising avenue(s). David p.s. I am probably not subscribed to all the lists that Lawson originally posted to.

Jan. 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Misc. newbie questions

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Gerry, On 06 Jan 2012, at 06:41, Gerry Weaver wrote: > 1. VisualWorks - I am doing a lot of thinking about projects that I could use Smalltalk on. I have a consulting project coming up that might be a good candidate, but I'm sure I would be required to use a commercial Smalltalk version for it. I guess it may be odd to ask about VisualWorks on this list, but I'm not really looking for a comparison to Pharo. What I'm interested in is your opinion of the product. I would like to know if any of you would consider using it on a project. I would appreciate anything y'all could share in the form of experiences good or bad. I am trying to get my hands on it, but Cincom's mail server (windoze) is having issues. I am also having some trouble getting pricing out of them. Anyway, I would like to get your take on the Cincom products. I asked myself the same questions, 18 to 24 months ago. I could say a lot about this subject, but I guess that in the mean time I am too biased since I took the Pharo road ;-) VisualWorks is a good product, technically and well supported (I guess), but it does cost real money (but nobody knows exactly how much). For hundreds of developers and companies, Pharo is a complete and capable alternative with a very active community. But don't take my word for it: just try it. Welcome! Sven PS: And if you like it, please participate in the community too.

Jan. 6, 2012

[Pharo-project] [OT] Any Pharoer in Brussels ?

by laurent laffont

Hi, JohnnyT and me will be in Brussels for FOSDEM from February, Friday 3 to Tuesday 7. We are searching for some place to sleep. Anyone with a couch ? (I promise to bring Fondue Savoyarde http://www.fonduesavoyarde.com/ :) Cheers, Laurent Laffont - @lolgzs <http://twitter.com/#!/lolgzs> Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Developer group: http://www.cara74.org Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ Pharo web deployment: http://www.alpha.smallharbour.org

Jan. 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Misc. newbie questions

by Max Leske

You can of course write everything in a workspace but that's messy. What you'd do basically is to tell the compiler to compile your class, then add methods (which you would also compile first). I don't know in what places you would have to register all of those things. You could try and look at OB / RB and how it's done in the browser. Anyway, it's not really practical. I haven't come across an editor that works the way you describe it but that doesn't mean there isn't one. Maybe someone else knows something. One idea would maybe be to look at GNU Smalltalk (file based) and see how they do it. Cheers, Max On 06.01.2012, at 06:41, Gerry Weaver wrote: > 2. There appear to be some tool choices in the Pharo image. I would like to be able to create a class and it's methods in an editor in one go. I like being able to see all of the class code at once. Is there a way to do this? I just want to be able to type it all in and accept (evaluate?) all at once.

Jan. 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Misc. newbie questions #2 & # 3

by Ben Coman

I'm new here also so I'll just answer the easy ones. Gerry Weaver wrote: > 2. There appear to be some tool choices in the Pharo image. I would like to be able to create a class and it's methods in an editor in one go. I like being able to see all of the class code at once. Is there a way to do this? I just want to be able to type it all in and accept (evaluate?) all at once. > > I think GNU smalltalk would be your only option - and would not have everything that you want for a client GUI applicaton. When I first started using Smalltalk I didn't realise that I was used to holding in my mind a "visual map" of where things were in the source files, and for a while I was uncomfortable like I could not "map" Smalltalk the same way. I have now adapted. As well as the differences in language and the live image IDE environment, the development cycle can be quite different. At its extreme, you write the test code first with then run it and before even writing the application code [1]. When the expected runtime error occurs the debugger opens and you add application code from within the debugger with the full context of variables available at that instant against which you experiment with code snippets until you get what you want. [1] http://squeak.preeminent.org/tut2007/html/011.html > 3. I've seen some discussion about images and image sizes. What is the current state of this. Is it possible to strip an image down to just the required components for an application (ie; no world menu, etc.). I would like to be able to run an image that would bring my gui application up filling the image window such that it looks a close as possible to a conventional gui application. > From my perspective, now that ram, disk space and Internet pipes are comparatively huge (to not very long ago) I think that file size of the image is not a real concern for an application. The stripping down of the image is still important for the Pharo "distribution" to reduce You don't need to strip out the IDE - you just turn it off - see [2]. In fact leaving the disabled IDE in the image might be useful if the client has a runtime problem with the application. Rather than "I can't reproduce it" you can potentially get the client to save the application image and send it to you. When you open the application you will have the exact state that the user, on which you can open a debugger. In the "ideal" case, you can fix it in that image and then send the image back to them and they can continue from where they left off. [2] http://squeak.preeminent.org/tut2007/html/205.html

Jan. 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Prematurely ending document on purpose with the SAXParser

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

2012/1/4 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > > Am 03.01.2012 um 16:14 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe: > >> >> On 03 Jan 2012, at 13:31, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: >> >>> I wonder what to do in this kind of situations. See >>> >>> 1) XML is one of the most important packages >>> 2) There is no mailng-list for xml ? >>> 3) Nobody replies and >>> 4) You want latest updates from that package >>> >>> Any suggestion? >> >> Maybe you could try to reach someone from the administrators/developers directly, there are quite a few on SS. >> > I'm one of those listed. But jaayer is the developer of the XML package. He picked up Michaels implementation and extended it. So there is only one guy that can give an elaborate answer. > Hernan, I don't really understand your problem. It sounds like you need to mess with the method checkEOD in order to get your use case done. While the real problem is that SAX is about to read the whole file at once. And while this is inappropriate for a lot of cases StAX/pull parsers have been implemented. So the real issue is that there is no StAX/pull parser in smalltalk (or at least in pharo). > > Norbert > > Hi, Of course the ideal would be a using a full StAX implementation, or even better a vtd-xml one, that would really be a cool use case for attracting more developers into Smalltalk. As there is no specification of SAX we are in the consensus line. So while SAX is commonly and thought to be used as a read-all solution, there is some workaround to stop the reading in Java [*]. So yes, I've used a workaround for that case. Today I played with XMLPullParser (StAX) and after a few changes I could parse and stop parsing when a specific node is reached, example: | parser | parser := XMLPullParser parse: '<?xml version="1.0"?> <!DOCTYPE BlastOutput PUBLIC "-//NCBI//NCBI BlastOutput/EN" "NCBI_BlastOutput.dtd"> <BlastOutput> <BlastOutput_program>blastn</BlastOutput_program> <BlastOutput_version>BLASTN 2.2.26+</BlastOutput_version> <BlastOutput_reference>Zheng Zhang, Scott Schwartz, Lukas Wagner, and Webb Miller (2000), "A greedy algorithm for aligning DNA sequences", J Comput Biol 2000; 7(1-2):203-14.</BlastOutput_reference> <BlastOutput_param> <Parameters> <Parameters_expect>10</Parameters_expect> <Parameters_sc-match>1</Parameters_sc-match> </Parameters> </BlastOutput_param> <BlastOutput_iterations>'. [ parser isStartTag: 'BlastOutput_param' ] whileFalse:[ Transcript show: parser text; cr. parser next ] I've sent the changes to Ken Treis so he can integrate them in XMLPullParser package. Cheers, HernÃ¡n http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-tipsaxstop/ http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3405702/using-sax-to-parse-common-xml-el… http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1345293/how-to-stop-parsing-xml-document…

Jan. 6, 2012

[Pharo-project] OpenGL integerated wtih Squeak IDE

by Lawson English

This is a very poor attempt to do what Matt Fulmer did with OpenCobalt: integrate overlapping Morphic windows with OpenGL. The only advantage is that it doesn't require OpenCobalt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctm-Q39nd-k The entire World is being rendered onto an OpenGL texture which is updated with every tick. With the proper scaling , the destop could be repositioned along the z access at any point within the fustrum and still keep the default mouse handling. Add mouse handling from OpenGL itself, and you can have 2D widgets projected onto 3D objects, not to mention 3D widgets fully integrated with the Squeak desktop. Time to revive/revitalize Balloon3D, perhaps? Whatever happened to 3D Morphic? There's obviously a great deal of room for optimization, and of course, the sky is the limit for what could be done in terms of lighting, materials, etc. Using more modern APIs of OpenGL (I'm using immediate mode! (!) and only stuff from the first 6 NeHe tutorials) one could have an awful lot of interesting stuff going on. Lawson

Jan. 6, 2012

[Pharo-project] Misc. newbie questions

by Gerry Weaver

Hello All, Firstly, let me say that I am enjoying Pharo very much at this point. I wish I would have found the time to look at this a long time ago. I have a few misc. newbie questions.Â 1. VisualWorks - I am doing a lot of thinking about projects that I could use Smalltalk on. I have a consulting project coming up that might be a good candidate, but I'm sure I would be required to use a commercial Smalltalk version for it. I guess it may be odd to ask about VisualWorks on this list, but I'm not really looking for a comparison to Pharo. What I'm interested in is your opinion of the product. I would like to know if any of you would consider using it on a project. I would appreciate anything y'all could share in the form of experiences good or bad. I am trying to get my hands on it, but Cincom's mail server (windoze) is having issues. I am also having some trouble getting pricing out of them. Anyway, I would like to get your take on the Cincom products. 2. There appear to be some tool choices in the Pharo image. I would like to be able to create a class and it's methods in an editor in one go. I like being able to see all of the class code at once. Is there a way to do this? Â I just want to be able to type it all in and accept (evaluate?) all at once. 3. I've seen some discussion about images and image sizes. What is the current state of this. Is it possible to strip an image down to just the required components for an application (ie; no world menu, etc.). I would like to be able to run an image that would bring my gui application up filling the image window such that it looks a close as possible to a conventional gui application. 4. I have been reading about something called "Opentalk". It is a way for images to be able to comminucate with each other over the network. I've also seen something callesd "rST" that appears to do a similar thing. In addition, I notice that someone has done some FFI bindings for zeromq. What would y'all recommend as the best option to achieve something like this in Pharo? 5. I'm trying to figure out exactly what the Pharo gui toolkit provides in the way of widgets. Is there a widget gallery type thing somewhere that shows all of them? I know I can play with them in the image, but it would be nice to see a list of what is there with a brief description. 6. I know Pharo doesn't currently support OS threads in an image, but I'm wondering about the FFI. Is it possible to call a foreign function in a separate OS thread or asynchronously in Pharo? Disclaimer: I'm not asking for any how to type answers here. I can do the reading and experimentation myself. I just want to know if these things are possible and where to start looking for a solution.Â Thanks, Gerry

Jan. 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] happy new year plus cogdroid news

by Ben Coman

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Thanks dimity what you are doing is cool. > Marcus we should buy an android device or get one: Olivier has one I think. > > Smalltalk on Android is going to be fantastic - and possibly a killer app. Which device will you get? In theory it wouldn't matter but in practice it might. I have been considering getting an Android phone and my choice may be influenced by yours. I might even consider donating some small $ amount if the chosen phone aligns with my interests. Some random thoughts (which ended up with a lot of links, so pick and choose your fancy)... Over christmas the "Samsung Galaxy S II" [1] appears to have been popular with work colleagues here in Western Australia. Consider getting a Jenkins build going with an Android emulator. [2] Consider basing first efforts on top of CyanogenMod [3] - which may be attractive to early adopters to expand the compatibility base [3a] by minimising to difference in manufacturer stack customisations. I personally would use CyanogenMod in any case this to increase performance by eliminating carrier installed bloatware and spyware like Carrier IQ [3b]. Have you seen the Kickstarter funding site [4] [4a] ? Some examples [4b] [4c]. [1] http://www.digitaltrends.com/cell-phone-reviews/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-att-rev… [2] https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Android+Emulator+Plugin [3] http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ [3a] http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices [3b] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/12/carrier-iq-architecture [4] http://www.kickstarter.com/start [4a] http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#WhatIsKick [4b] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1541803748/punk-mathematics?play=1&ref=… [4c] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1992078142/building-the-open-source-bus… (sorry for the many links) cheers, Ben

Jan. 6, 2012