September 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] thoughts of a tired but happy man...

by mike＠sharedlogic.ca

Hi Stef, >From one of those who manages to eke out a living using Pharo, a very big "Thank You" to you all. Best regards, Mike Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> Sender: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:45:50 To: An open mailing list to discuss any topics related to an open-sourceSmalltalk<Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Reply-To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] thoughts of a tired but happy man... Since I work too much I'm tired and when I'm tired I have strange thoughts :) Let us see what they are (if of any interest) I do not really know if people realize that in fact we could be payed for building our own private little toy and we could publish cool papers, looks smart and look at ourselves quite proudly in the mirror the morning. The look of the guy that accomplished his duty and is quite cool too. This would be a perfect life: a full life of a brillant researcher having fun with his little toys. Students of course would have fun with us and we would be a happy family. Imagine we could even write books, little books and everybody would be happy. flower, butterflies and the rest... Now we decided to do pharo. Why: because we want other people to be able to make a living out of it. I'm not sure that people deeply understand that. We do pharo (of course so that we can experiment crazy ideas but we could have probably do that better in Scheme from my experience) because we want others to be empowered and in the position of making money with it and changing/controlling their life because they are not forced to use something that they do not like. So this means that each time we spend time on it (we = the community) we make sure that others or the community can feed their kids based on our labor. For me this is a cool task and I enjoyed doing it even if sometimes my moral is low because I would like to go much much faster. You could think that we should have better done to have fun with our little toys and sometimes I think that yes this could be true. But we decided that it was more rewarding to build real systems with customers that are not always happy, have bugs. So when you have strong expectations, bold statements about Pharo think also that this is the simple work of people most of the time not payed to do it and that nicely share it. We know where we want to go, sometimes the system does not get the shape we want. but each little peebles after the other one we shape it. Now you can also help to make it better. Stef

Sept. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] yield current Thread

by Levente Uzonyi

On Wed, 21 Sep 2011, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Processor yield That will only allow processes to run which have the same priority as the current process. Higher priority processes will simply interrupt the current process if they can run, lower priority processes won't have a chance to run, because the current process will be ready to run again right after #yield (it will just be moved to the end of the queue of the processes with the same priority). Using a Delay is one solution, though waiting for less than 1 millisecond is not possible with current VMs AFAIK. Another possibility is to temporarily decrease the priority of the current process. Something like: currentProcess := Processor activeProcess. originalPriority := currentProcess priority. [ currentProcess priority: priorityOfTheProcessToBeWokenUp. Processor yield ] ensure: [ currentProcess priority: originalPriority ]. Note that currentProcess in the argument of #ensure: can not be replaced with Processor activeProcess, because the executor of the block may be another process (unwinding). Also note that there's no guarantee that currentProcess will be activated anytime soon. Levente > > Stef > > On Sep 21, 2011, at 7:27 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > >> Is it possible to manually yield the current (high priority) to leave the possibility for other processes to run? >> >> The closest solution I came up with is: >> >> Delay forMilliseconds: 0.001. >> >> IMO not very nice? >> >> cami >> >> > > >

Sept. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] yield current Thread

by Igor Stasenko

yield does not allow a lower priority processes to run. it will allow another process of same priority to run, otherwise , if it only one process (one which yields) this will be no-op. On 21 September 2011 22:18, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Processor yield > > Stef > > On Sep 21, 2011, at 7:27 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > >> Is it possible to manually yield the current (high priority) to leave the possibility for other processes to run? >> >> The closest solution I came up with is: >> >> Â Â Â Delay forMilliseconds: 0.001. >> >> IMO not very niceâ¦ >> >> cami >> >> > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Sept. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] thoughts of a tired but happy man...

by Laszlo Zsolt Kiss

Dear Stef.The Hungarians have a saying:Â "WE CRY TOGETHER AND LAUGH TOGETHER."If you tired, think about my son Patrik (4 and half years old) , who every week "working" with Pharo.Energy is important, therefore we are sending a big portion of the good energy on the occult roads.:) Best regards: LÃ¡szlÃ³ Zsolt Ps.:Â http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9KB0vOmQIw [1]Â ----- Original Message ----- From: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr To: Cc: Sent:Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:06:33 +0200 Subject:Re: [Pharo-project] thoughts of a tired but happy man... BTW something important I forgot to say is that doing pharo is fun too and it is fun because of the community And the energy we all produce and get. On Sep 21, 2011, at 9:45 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Since I work too much I'm tired and when I'm tired I have strange thoughts :) > Let us see what they are (if of any interest) > > I do not really know if people realize that in fact we could be payed for building our own private little toy > and we could publish cool papers, looks smart and look at ourselves quite proudly in the mirror the morning. > The look of the guy that accomplished his duty and is quite cool too. > This would be a perfect life: a full life of a brillant researcher having fun with his little toys. Students > of course would have fun with us and we would be a happy family. Imagine we could even write > books, little books and everybody would be happy. flower, butterflies and the rest... > > Now we decided to do pharo. Why: because we want other people to be able to make a living out of it. > > I'm not sure that people deeply understand that. We do pharo (of course so that we can experiment crazy ideas > but we could have probably do that better in Scheme from my experience) because we want others to be empowered > and in the position of making money with it and changing/controlling their life because they are not forced to use > something that they do not like. > > So this means that each time we spend time on it (we = the community) we make sure that others or the community > can feed their kids based on our labor. For me this is a cool task and I enjoyed doing it even if sometimes my moral > is low because I would like to go much much faster. > > You could think that we should have better done to have fun > with our little toys and sometimes I think that yes this could be true. But we decided that it was more rewarding > to build real systems with customers that are not always happy, have bugs. So when you have strong expectations, > bold statements about Pharo think also that this is the simple work of people most of the time not payed to do it and that nicely > share it. > > We know where we want to go, sometimes the system does not get the shape we want. but each little peebles after the other > one we shape it. Now you can also help to make it better. > > Stef > > Links: ------ [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9KB0vOmQIw

Sept. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] thoughts of a tired but happy man...

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks laurent. They are right :) I hope that the new canvas, the mini kernel, and all the rest will do it even more :) Stef (now to bed) On Sep 21, 2011, at 10:21 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 10:06 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > BTW something important I forgot to say is that doing pharo is fun too and it is fun because of the community. > And the energy we all produce and get. > > > > Some students came see me yesterday and ask: "Why don't we do more Pharo ? We've discovered it at PharoConf and it looked cool and simple. Java is not fun ....". > > I think Pharo change the image of Smalltalk. > > Laurent. > > > > > > On Sep 21, 2011, at 9:45 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > Since I work too much I'm tired and when I'm tired I have strange thoughts :) > > Let us see what they are (if of any interest) > > > > I do not really know if people realize that in fact we could be payed for building our own private little toy > > and we could publish cool papers, looks smart and look at ourselves quite proudly in the mirror the morning. > > The look of the guy that accomplished his duty and is quite cool too. > > This would be a perfect life: a full life of a brillant researcher having fun with his little toys. Students > > of course would have fun with us and we would be a happy family. Imagine we could even write > > books, little books and everybody would be happy. flower, butterflies and the rest... > > > > Now we decided to do pharo. Why: because we want other people to be able to make a living out of it. > > > > I'm not sure that people deeply understand that. We do pharo (of course so that we can experiment crazy ideas > > but we could have probably do that better in Scheme from my experience) because we want others to be empowered > > and in the position of making money with it and changing/controlling their life because they are not forced to use > > something that they do not like. > > > > So this means that each time we spend time on it (we = the community) we make sure that others or the community > > can feed their kids based on our labor. For me this is a cool task and I enjoyed doing it even if sometimes my moral > > is low because I would like to go much much faster. > > > > You could think that we should have better done to have fun > > with our little toys and sometimes I think that yes this could be true. But we decided that it was more rewarding > > to build real systems with customers that are not always happy, have bugs. So when you have strong expectations, > > bold statements about Pharo think also that this is the simple work of people most of the time not payed to do it and that nicely > > share it. > > > > We know where we want to go, sometimes the system does not get the shape we want. but each little peebles after the other > > one we shape it. Now you can also help to make it better. > > > > Stef > > > > > > >

Sept. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] thoughts of a tired but happy man...

by laurent laffont

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 10:06 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > BTW something important I forgot to say is that doing pharo is fun too and > it is fun because of the community. > And the energy we all produce and get. > > Some students came see me yesterday and ask: "Why don't we do more Pharo ? We've discovered it at PharoConf and it looked cool and simple. Java is not fun ....". I think Pharo change the image of Smalltalk. Laurent. > > > On Sep 21, 2011, at 9:45 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > Since I work too much I'm tired and when I'm tired I have strange > thoughts :) > > Let us see what they are (if of any interest) > > > > I do not really know if people realize that in fact we could be payed for > building our own private little toy > > and we could publish cool papers, looks smart and look at ourselves quite > proudly in the mirror the morning. > > The look of the guy that accomplished his duty and is quite cool too. > > This would be a perfect life: a full life of a brillant researcher having > fun with his little toys. Students > > of course would have fun with us and we would be a happy family. Imagine > we could even write > > books, little books and everybody would be happy. flower, butterflies and > the rest... > > > > Now we decided to do pharo. Why: because we want other people to be able > to make a living out of it. > > > > I'm not sure that people deeply understand that. We do pharo (of course > so that we can experiment crazy ideas > > but we could have probably do that better in Scheme from my experience) > because we want others to be empowered > > and in the position of making money with it and changing/controlling > their life because they are not forced to use > > something that they do not like. > > > > So this means that each time we spend time on it (we = the community) we > make sure that others or the community > > can feed their kids based on our labor. For me this is a cool task and I > enjoyed doing it even if sometimes my moral > > is low because I would like to go much much faster. > > > > You could think that we should have better done to have fun > > with our little toys and sometimes I think that yes this could be true. > But we decided that it was more rewarding > > to build real systems with customers that are not always happy, have > bugs. So when you have strong expectations, > > bold statements about Pharo think also that this is the simple work of > people most of the time not payed to do it and that nicely > > share it. > > > > We know where we want to go, sometimes the system does not get the shape > we want. but each little peebles after the other > > one we shape it. Now you can also help to make it better. > > > > Stef > > > > > > >

Sept. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] thoughts of a tired but happy man...

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

BTW something important I forgot to say is that doing pharo is fun too and it is fun because of the community. And the energy we all produce and get. On Sep 21, 2011, at 9:45 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Since I work too much I'm tired and when I'm tired I have strange thoughts :) > Let us see what they are (if of any interest) > > I do not really know if people realize that in fact we could be payed for building our own private little toy > and we could publish cool papers, looks smart and look at ourselves quite proudly in the mirror the morning. > The look of the guy that accomplished his duty and is quite cool too. > This would be a perfect life: a full life of a brillant researcher having fun with his little toys. Students > of course would have fun with us and we would be a happy family. Imagine we could even write > books, little books and everybody would be happy. flower, butterflies and the rest... > > Now we decided to do pharo. Why: because we want other people to be able to make a living out of it. > > I'm not sure that people deeply understand that. We do pharo (of course so that we can experiment crazy ideas > but we could have probably do that better in Scheme from my experience) because we want others to be empowered > and in the position of making money with it and changing/controlling their life because they are not forced to use > something that they do not like. > > So this means that each time we spend time on it (we = the community) we make sure that others or the community > can feed their kids based on our labor. For me this is a cool task and I enjoyed doing it even if sometimes my moral > is low because I would like to go much much faster. > > You could think that we should have better done to have fun > with our little toys and sometimes I think that yes this could be true. But we decided that it was more rewarding > to build real systems with customers that are not always happy, have bugs. So when you have strong expectations, > bold statements about Pharo think also that this is the simple work of people most of the time not payed to do it and that nicely > share it. > > We know where we want to go, sometimes the system does not get the shape we want. but each little peebles after the other > one we shape it. Now you can also help to make it better. > > Stef > >

Sept. 21, 2011

[Pharo-project] thoughts of a tired but happy man...

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Since I work too much I'm tired and when I'm tired I have strange thoughts :) Let us see what they are (if of any interest) I do not really know if people realize that in fact we could be payed for building our own private little toy and we could publish cool papers, looks smart and look at ourselves quite proudly in the mirror the morning. The look of the guy that accomplished his duty and is quite cool too. This would be a perfect life: a full life of a brillant researcher having fun with his little toys. Students of course would have fun with us and we would be a happy family. Imagine we could even write books, little books and everybody would be happy. flower, butterflies and the rest... Now we decided to do pharo. Why: because we want other people to be able to make a living out of it. I'm not sure that people deeply understand that. We do pharo (of course so that we can experiment crazy ideas but we could have probably do that better in Scheme from my experience) because we want others to be empowered and in the position of making money with it and changing/controlling their life because they are not forced to use something that they do not like. So this means that each time we spend time on it (we = the community) we make sure that others or the community can feed their kids based on our labor. For me this is a cool task and I enjoyed doing it even if sometimes my moral is low because I would like to go much much faster. You could think that we should have better done to have fun with our little toys and sometimes I think that yes this could be true. But we decided that it was more rewarding to build real systems with customers that are not always happy, have bugs. So when you have strong expectations, bold statements about Pharo think also that this is the simple work of people most of the time not payed to do it and that nicely share it. We know where we want to go, sometimes the system does not get the shape we want. but each little peebles after the other one we shape it. Now you can also help to make it better. Stef

Sept. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] MethodWrappers

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys this is not that we are not interested but let me explain you my day today: - discussion with mariano about fuel paper next version - contact with a company to talk business - budget to make sure that everybody gets a nice machine for next year - budget to make sure that everybody gets a nice salary next year - sync with student about open gl probject - sync with andre for the next 3 months - discussion with ussman about scenario to sell moose - discussed with Human Ressources to be sure that we can hire the people we want - read tons of mails - schedule travels - fill up phd topic for national security agency so that we can hire andre for his phd - talk with mariano and marcus about unused object garbage collection - discussed abotu zinc and books with olivier - ... And everyday is more or less like that. So do not believe that we are doing nothing, we are doing a lot and most of the time this is not on pharo unfortunately. So there is an entry in the bug tracker and if somebody wants these changes On Sep 21, 2011, at 6:53 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 3:48 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Hi Eliot, > > at [1] you mentioned a port of MethodWrappers to Squeak 4.2. > Is there also a port for Pharo available or do you plan to > port it? > > I was hoping someone with focus on Pharo would integrate the necessary compiler and kernel changes into Pharo. The Squeak trunk packages are Compiler-eem.214 & Compiler-eem.215, and Kernel-619 to Kernel-eem.623. I've attached the diffs. Notionally file in Compiler-213-214.st & Kernel-618-619.st, then file-in Compiler-214-215.st & Kernel-619-623.st. These are generally useful, a) restoring the ability to create subclasses of CompiledMethod, and b) fixing various subtle copying-related state-sharing bugs with AdditionalMethodState (the objects that add additional state to compiled methods, pragmas, properties and "extra inst vars"). > > The MethodWrappers4.2 package should then just load. It serves as a model for adding inst vars to CompiledMethod. > > > For those who dont know about MethodWrappers: look at [2] > > Indeed. Yes, there's an alternative implementation above objects-as-methods, but that implementation is far from complete. It would be good to see he same kind of completeness. e.g. with MethodWrappers you can write > > | indent wrapper | > indent := 0. > wrapper := MwBlockMethodWrapper on: #benchFib inClass: Integer. > wrapper > beforeBlock: [:rcvr :args| > Transcript crtab: indent; print: rcvr; space; nextPutAll: #benchFib; flush. > indent := indent + 1]; > afterBlock: [:rcvr :args| indent := indent - 1]. > [wrapper install. > 7 benchFib] ensure: [wrapper uninstall] > > whereas there are few if any examples with the objects-as-methods AFAICS. > > Thanks > Torsten > > > [1] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2011-September/16156… > [2] http://www.refactory.com/Software/MethodWrappers/ > -- > NEU: FreePhone - 0ct/min Handyspartarif mit Geld-zurÃ¼ck-Garantie! > Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone > > > > -- > best, > Eliot > > <Compiler-213-214.st><Compiler-214-215.st><Kernel-618-619.st><Kernel-619-623.st>

Sept. 21, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] yield current Thread

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Processor yield Stef On Sep 21, 2011, at 7:27 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > Is it possible to manually yield the current (high priority) to leave the possibility for other processes to run? > > The closest solution I came up with is: > > Delay forMilliseconds: 0.001. > > IMO not very niceâ¦ > > cami > >

Sept. 21, 2011